Just requesting some clarification about the ship aspect
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Then I think you are going to be disapointed. The way I read it is that you will directly pilot 1 ship only and you will be able to VR control drones. and thats it. You will be able to own and command other ships but not directly pilot them.Morrigon wrote:I think people are looking at this “only one ship” thing in the wrong way. Maybe it’s because of the way Egosoft is presenting it? If I read the info we have been given up to this point correctly then we will be able to fly any ship in game ...
myabe you're happy with one ship plus drones, but I for one am very disapointed.
@Bill67
Its really not the same, one ship, no matter how configurable, cannot match up to owning dozens or hundreds of individual ships and being able to jump into any one of them and start flying it. For me at least the adventure in a space trading/sandbox game is in getting new ships, your comment about the different ships really just being the same exept with different properties just smacks of appologetics. Its about the fantasy and the immersion of getting a "different" ship, even if that is ultimately mostly in your mind its still important.
Actually in Oblivion, you are 1 character, you have the choice to use ranged attacks/melee or magic. Your not stuck with using 1 weapon and I dont believe XR is stuck with 1 weapon. I dont think its an apt analogy for this situation. Its not 1 shipped thats locked to 1 setup but possibly to be modular upgradeable/interchangeable.bill2505 wrote:why we are unhappy.imagine in oblivion you couldnt change weapon or armor just upgrade it.would this be good. this is one of the worst features for me. the good in t3 was that by choosing your ship you could chose your style of play
Your playstyle can still be achieved by altering the way the ship loadouts are done. Fast vs firepower vs defensive ability. Now what limits this can be achieved , we will have to wait and see but I think too many hear 1 ship and jump the gun too much.
You might be right but I for one can understand the limitations of what they are doing. And honestly if you have 1 ship with a personality and you were able to fly others, would you truly be happy to fly something that only has a cockpit view and no crewmembers just because you can? Or would you clamor for every ship to have interiors?DeepFried wrote: @Bill67
Its really not the same, one ship, no matter how configurable, cannot match up to owning dozens or hundreds of individual ships and being able to jump into any one of them and start flying it. For me at least the adventure in a space trading/sandbox game is in getting new ships, your comment about the different ships really just being the same exept with different properties just smacks of appologetics. Its about the fantasy and the immersion of getting a "different" ship, even if that is ultimately mostly in your mind its still important.
I am sure as time rolls on and if they can make some money, their will be more than 1 ship but I am also sure it takes time and money to design the inside of ships and they can only do so much with what they have.
From an immersion standpoint I think this is a great way to go. I just think some may need to wait and see.
Bill67 so you are going to have a super ship that you can transform it to everything.this is not only unrealistic but very cheap way to go for the lack of many ships.if i wanted something like this i would play tranformers or something.
bill67 you say that you like walking inside ships thing.tell me what is going to give you in terms of game play.nothing
bill67 you say that you like walking inside ships thing.tell me what is going to give you in terms of game play.nothing
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Mightysword
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OnlineKenji
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I'm suprised that the one ship debate is even still going on. We can fly many types of ships - confirmed.
We have fighters, they're just called drones - honestly ES just should drop the "Drone" phrasing and just call them "Remote Controlled Ships" to abate the "one-ship" concern. This idea that it "limits freedom" just isn't true.
The ability to make ships designed for specific purposes opens up so many options for missions and gameplay. This frees up limitations that were placed on us before, it does not limit us.
We have fighters, they're just called drones - honestly ES just should drop the "Drone" phrasing and just call them "Remote Controlled Ships" to abate the "one-ship" concern. This idea that it "limits freedom" just isn't true.
The ability to make ships designed for specific purposes opens up so many options for missions and gameplay. This frees up limitations that were placed on us before, it does not limit us.
There are only two things in life that matter, and I have them both. They're not what you might think, and once you learn that you'll be much happier.
The thing is, we are not pilots anymore. We are now commanders. Commanders do not go in the front lines, but stay in the safest place possible.bill2505 wrote:why we are unhappy.imagine in oblivion you couldnt change weapon or armor just upgrade it.would this be good. this is one of the worst features for me. the good in t3 was that by choosing your ship you could chose your style of play
The ship we get seems to be the most modern, customizable, ship available. So makes sense to me. That we also get the option to control our smaller ships for some action also sounds good.
It's a new direction, and I personally like it. I think we should give Egosoft a chance before arriving to any conclusions.
yea thats the problem.for me and for others egosoft killed the game before even releasing it.if i wanted to be the commander i would be a rts not a first person space simcaleb wrote:The thing is, we are not pilots anymore. We are now commanders. Commanders do not go in the front lines, but stay in the safest place possible.bill2505 wrote:why we are unhappy.imagine in oblivion you couldnt change weapon or armor just upgrade it.would this be good. this is one of the worst features for me. the good in t3 was that by choosing your ship you could chose your style of play
The ship we get seems to be the most modern, customizable, ship available. So makes sense to me. That we also get the option to control our smaller ships for some action also sounds good.
It's a new direction, and I personally like it. I think we should give Egosoft a chance before arriving to any conclusions.
I get it, and I even buy it. But as I heavily tend to fantasise when playing games, I will definately suffer from the difference between 'being able to pilot different ships' and 'directing drones through a VR interface'. When piloting a ship, one does not only, hop in, complete a task and hop out. It becomes a home for the player. With the VR thingy, 'being able to control different ships' will merely be a task-spesific issue. There won't be a personal connection between the drone and the player. Well, that makes a difference.OnlineKenji wrote:I'm suprised that the one ship debate is even still going on. We can fly many types of ships - confirmed.
We have fighters, they're just called drones - honestly ES just should drop the "Drone" phrasing and just call them "Remote Controlled Ships" to abate the "one-ship" concern.
With a variety of options, one really feels like in a ship. Connected to the Universe through the eyes of a pilot who has the ability space walk, change ships. And it's that pilot's 'life' that connects you to the universe. Nothing happens even if the ship kabooms, even slight, you have the chance to eject and get rescued by another one of your ships. What do we think will happen when something happens to the 'Pride of Albion': Game Over.
How can that be reasonabily explained within the lore?Now our connection with the game has been reduced to a ship. I'm not overlooking the ability to travel around the interiors of ship/station etc. But that doesn't fix the essential plot hole mentioned above.
I realized I've turned into a Hardcore fan of the ability to directly pilot more than one ships. That wasn't my intention, I'm actually excited by the entire project and kind of defended their position in the first place. I'm just trying to rationally explain the reasons of our dissapointment. Once you spot'em, you can solve'em. The point is, every single former X player will live with (or maybe not); but no one will merrily welcome it. That is a sacrifice. And unless solved, this will remain an issue, this way or another.
Fair enough and I'm trying to keep an open mind about Rebirth, however much I may gripe about some of the changes in the forum I do still plan to buy it.Mightysword wrote:On the same token, that also applies to the people who like one but super detail ship. When it comes to the mind, it's whatever your fancy.DeepFried wrote: Its about the fantasy and the immersion of getting a "different" ship, even if that is ultimately mostly in your mind its still important.
However i'm ready for disappointment simply because i've played quite a few space trading games, starting with Elite II and coming all the way up to X3TC...
I've found that all the games I didn't enjoy that much locked me in one ship like iwar, and all the games I loved allowed me to pilot pretty much every ship in the game, even a simple imagining of this formula as in EV Nova works because of this fact... to me that is a defining element in a space sandbox game.
In fact the single ship limit is where I never bought X-btf when it came out.
This isn't the next iteration of the X series we're all used to, but an entirely new game that just happens to use the X lore. From what I can tell the old mechanics are not being refined, but discarded all together. Then replaced with new ones. Very little from the prior X games is going to carry over it seems.
How well this is going to work in the end remains to be seen. It very well could work extremely well and be very fun, or it could flop and end Egosoft as a company. We'll have to wait and see the final product before we know. Until then we just don't know how all these changes are going to interact with each other, and more importantly the player trying to have some fun.
How well this is going to work in the end remains to be seen. It very well could work extremely well and be very fun, or it could flop and end Egosoft as a company. We'll have to wait and see the final product before we know. Until then we just don't know how all these changes are going to interact with each other, and more importantly the player trying to have some fun.
[X3] Guide to training CAG and CLS1&2 pilots
[X3T] Guide to training CAG and CLS1&2 pilots in Terran Conflict
The mercenary code
There is no right or wrong.
There is no good or evil.
There is only the will of the client, and how much they're paying.
[X3T] Guide to training CAG and CLS1&2 pilots in Terran Conflict
The mercenary code
There is no right or wrong.
There is no good or evil.
There is only the will of the client, and how much they're paying.
When i read about the "one ship" thing i almost spit out my drink... then i dug a little deeper and I am not feeling quite so hurt over this decision
mainly this bit that is putting my mind at ease
from the "Capital ship control" section of the "ships and station" sticky
"They all exist in X Rebirth and you can of course own and operate many of them!"
now if you go on to read the rest it says that you don't fly them in first person, but you CAN land on them.
what i am HOPING this means is you take on more of a "captains chair" role with them in which orders are given to your helmsman or pilot for movement and to your tactical officer for combat. etc.
I have no idea how they are going to integrate all this, but I feel like I am willing to at least give them a chance with it...
Egosoft has not disappointed me yet, even with the huge radical changes they have made in the past (think about XBTF compared to what TC is now... if I was afraid of change, i would not be playing TC would I?)
that is all i ask. Give them a chance
all they are saying is that they are making a change. I personally believe you need to try it out before you can make a judgment on whether or not they are dropping the ball on it. who knows? maybe the new system they have in mind will make everyone say "holy crap, that is WAY better. I can't even go back to TC now"
all that being said, i am a little disappointed that THIS is the change they decided to make... flying any ship has always been a major gameplay draw for so many players. changing it so radically without at least easing us into it seems a little heavy handed.
I can't help but feel there is some new guy in the office in charge of it who has never played an X game and just comes in saying "how about we just make it more like *insert mainstream game here*?
mainly this bit that is putting my mind at ease
from the "Capital ship control" section of the "ships and station" sticky
"They all exist in X Rebirth and you can of course own and operate many of them!"
now if you go on to read the rest it says that you don't fly them in first person, but you CAN land on them.
what i am HOPING this means is you take on more of a "captains chair" role with them in which orders are given to your helmsman or pilot for movement and to your tactical officer for combat. etc.
I have no idea how they are going to integrate all this, but I feel like I am willing to at least give them a chance with it...
Egosoft has not disappointed me yet, even with the huge radical changes they have made in the past (think about XBTF compared to what TC is now... if I was afraid of change, i would not be playing TC would I?)
that is all i ask. Give them a chance
all they are saying is that they are making a change. I personally believe you need to try it out before you can make a judgment on whether or not they are dropping the ball on it. who knows? maybe the new system they have in mind will make everyone say "holy crap, that is WAY better. I can't even go back to TC now"
all that being said, i am a little disappointed that THIS is the change they decided to make... flying any ship has always been a major gameplay draw for so many players. changing it so radically without at least easing us into it seems a little heavy handed.
I can't help but feel there is some new guy in the office in charge of it who has never played an X game and just comes in saying "how about we just make it more like *insert mainstream game here*?
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Aragon Speed
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OMG yet another 'one ship' argument.
You know, the only mistake ES made imo was to place the game back in the X universe.
The game was originally designed and built as a totally new game independent of the X series lore. If they had stuck with that then most of the arguments and/or disappointments people have been expressing would not have happened and nearly everyone would have been excited about the new game.
Unfortunately during development they realised that the new game would fit into the X lore, and as that is long running and has greater depth than any new history they could create, they decided to slot the game into the X universe again. This of course allowed them to draw on existing themes and advance them in interesting ways and concentrate more on the game dev side of things rather than sinking time into working out a new history and time-line.
This from a dev point of view is good, but as soon as they did that everyone started comparing X:R with previous games instead of as a new game in its own right. Thus all these threads on things that would have been, quite frankly, non-issues if it had been a new game without the baggage of the old games dragging it down.
You know, the only mistake ES made imo was to place the game back in the X universe.
The game was originally designed and built as a totally new game independent of the X series lore. If they had stuck with that then most of the arguments and/or disappointments people have been expressing would not have happened and nearly everyone would have been excited about the new game.
Unfortunately during development they realised that the new game would fit into the X lore, and as that is long running and has greater depth than any new history they could create, they decided to slot the game into the X universe again. This of course allowed them to draw on existing themes and advance them in interesting ways and concentrate more on the game dev side of things rather than sinking time into working out a new history and time-line.
This from a dev point of view is good, but as soon as they did that everyone started comparing X:R with previous games instead of as a new game in its own right. Thus all these threads on things that would have been, quite frankly, non-issues if it had been a new game without the baggage of the old games dragging it down.
I think people will adapt to the new play style quite quickly and wonder what all the fuss was about.
I just restarted a modded (XRM) version of TC and have been playing for about 12 hours so far - I've not yet left my starting TS as enjoying a slightly different style of playing. I STAY in my TS, I don't fight unless I have to, but for fighting I use my wingmen and missiles - quite a fun play through so far.
Doing this in a ship that can fight, can be upgraded beyond a humble trader, have smarter AI wingmen (drones) and be able to properly VR control them while my ship isn't simply dead in the water appeals to me.
What I would like to know however is exactly what ships are in the game. There's us in old stinky or whatever it's called (sorta like that name lol) there are drones that can be VR controlled OR are bright enough to do what you tell them. There are Capital ships which are cusomisable too - this is good stuff, but what about the in-between ships?
I'd hope we'd see Piloted trader ships, Piloted fighters and maybe "M6" class if there's an equivalent in XR. I don't mind not being able to fly (or sit on the command deck as as my Captain flies it in the case of capital ships) these smaller craft IF they have a proper pilot to do that for me...after all VR flying a ship which already has a pilot seems a little daft. Ok, maybe jumping into said Fighter replacing the pilot might have been fun, but with the variety of drones on offer I think I'll get my fix from those.
I love the idea of a BRIGHT AI pilot flying my various assets for me, whether that be someone trading, under the command of a station manager or just doing local "sector trader" type work for me. I also like that the wing of fighters defending him are bright AI pilots doing the job I ask. IF this is how things work then I'll be happy in my one, customisable ship & using specialised drones for various tasks.
The BIGGEST thing by far for me is being able to rely on my AI Piloted ships to both do what they are told and do it well - then I'll feel like a commander with reliable staff working for me and ensuring my assets don't ram themselves to death or some other stupid activity that seems to amuse the current TC AI
Oh btw: it's true of course that XR wasn't originally going to be an X game but a whole new thing, however they decided to make it an X game so some of the critisism regards "losing" the key feature of being able to fly anything you can see IS a valid point of concern. However, in TC and before we HAD to jump into a ship ourselves to make it even remotely effective in combat...if XR means they can look after themselves then that's good with me.
Really looking forward to more information...
Cheers,
Scoob.
I just restarted a modded (XRM) version of TC and have been playing for about 12 hours so far - I've not yet left my starting TS as enjoying a slightly different style of playing. I STAY in my TS, I don't fight unless I have to, but for fighting I use my wingmen and missiles - quite a fun play through so far.
Doing this in a ship that can fight, can be upgraded beyond a humble trader, have smarter AI wingmen (drones) and be able to properly VR control them while my ship isn't simply dead in the water appeals to me.
What I would like to know however is exactly what ships are in the game. There's us in old stinky or whatever it's called (sorta like that name lol) there are drones that can be VR controlled OR are bright enough to do what you tell them. There are Capital ships which are cusomisable too - this is good stuff, but what about the in-between ships?
I'd hope we'd see Piloted trader ships, Piloted fighters and maybe "M6" class if there's an equivalent in XR. I don't mind not being able to fly (or sit on the command deck as as my Captain flies it in the case of capital ships) these smaller craft IF they have a proper pilot to do that for me...after all VR flying a ship which already has a pilot seems a little daft. Ok, maybe jumping into said Fighter replacing the pilot might have been fun, but with the variety of drones on offer I think I'll get my fix from those.
I love the idea of a BRIGHT AI pilot flying my various assets for me, whether that be someone trading, under the command of a station manager or just doing local "sector trader" type work for me. I also like that the wing of fighters defending him are bright AI pilots doing the job I ask. IF this is how things work then I'll be happy in my one, customisable ship & using specialised drones for various tasks.
The BIGGEST thing by far for me is being able to rely on my AI Piloted ships to both do what they are told and do it well - then I'll feel like a commander with reliable staff working for me and ensuring my assets don't ram themselves to death or some other stupid activity that seems to amuse the current TC AI
Oh btw: it's true of course that XR wasn't originally going to be an X game but a whole new thing, however they decided to make it an X game so some of the critisism regards "losing" the key feature of being able to fly anything you can see IS a valid point of concern. However, in TC and before we HAD to jump into a ship ourselves to make it even remotely effective in combat...if XR means they can look after themselves then that's good with me.
Really looking forward to more information...
Cheers,
Scoob.
i dont thing so pal for me one of the best features was this.for me rebirth is going to be a huge F(ail)Scoob wrote:I think people will adapt to the new play style quite quickly and wonder what all the fuss was about.
I just restarted a modded (XRM) version of TC and have been playing for about 12 hours so far - I've not yet left my starting TS as enjoying a slightly different style of playing. I STAY in my TS, I don't fight unless I have to, but for fighting I use my wingmen and missiles - quite a fun play through so far.
Doing this in a ship that can fight, can be upgraded beyond a humble trader, have smarter AI wingmen (drones) and be able to properly VR control them while my ship isn't simply dead in the water appeals to me.
What I would like to know however is exactly what ships are in the game. There's us in old stinky or whatever it's called (sorta like that name lol) there are drones that can be VR controlled OR are bright enough to do what you tell them. There are Capital ships which are cusomisable too - this is good stuff, but what about the in-between ships?
I'd hope we'd see Piloted trader ships, Piloted fighters and maybe "M6" class if there's an equivalent in XR. I don't mind not being able to fly (or sit on the command deck as as my Captain flies it in the case of capital ships) these smaller craft IF they have a proper pilot to do that for me...after all VR flying a ship which already has a pilot seems a little daft. Ok, maybe jumping into said Fighter replacing the pilot might have been fun, but with the variety of drones on offer I think I'll get my fix from those.
I love the idea of a BRIGHT AI pilot flying my various assets for me, whether that be someone trading, under the command of a station manager or just doing local "sector trader" type work for me. I also like that the wing of fighters defending him are bright AI pilots doing the job I ask. IF this is how things work then I'll be happy in my one, customisable ship & using specialised drones for various tasks.
The BIGGEST thing by far for me is being able to rely on my AI Piloted ships to both do what they are told and do it well - then I'll feel like a commander with reliable staff working for me and ensuring my assets don't ram themselves to death or some other stupid activity that seems to amuse the current TC AI
Oh btw: it's true of course that XR wasn't originally going to be an X game but a whole new thing, however they decided to make it an X game so some of the critisism regards "losing" the key feature of being able to fly anything you can see IS a valid point of concern. However, in TC and before we HAD to jump into a ship ourselves to make it even remotely effective in combat...if XR means they can look after themselves then that's good with me.
Really looking forward to more information...
Cheers,
Scoob.
It would be wise to keep an open mind with the game. Being physically chained to a single ship might turn out to be fun in the end.
In any event it's a sure thing that there will be a vocal crowd that only wants more of the same. Same X game with more sectors, more ships and with added eye candy. Forget improving the old interface, that thing is a lost cause. I thought X3:TC stretched the game design well beyond the breaking point myself.
In any event it's a sure thing that there will be a vocal crowd that only wants more of the same. Same X game with more sectors, more ships and with added eye candy. Forget improving the old interface, that thing is a lost cause. I thought X3:TC stretched the game design well beyond the breaking point myself.
[X3] Guide to training CAG and CLS1&2 pilots
[X3T] Guide to training CAG and CLS1&2 pilots in Terran Conflict
The mercenary code
There is no right or wrong.
There is no good or evil.
There is only the will of the client, and how much they're paying.
[X3T] Guide to training CAG and CLS1&2 pilots in Terran Conflict
The mercenary code
There is no right or wrong.
There is no good or evil.
There is only the will of the client, and how much they're paying.
Hi Bill, I think we really need to wait and give it a chance and not just write it of as a failure so early. We have to look at it a little bit more open minded, specially because this is not X4. This is a brand new game.bill2505 wrote:i dont thing so pal for me one of the best features was this.for me rebirth is going to be a huge F(ail)
I can see you love the X series of games, and you great feeling you get when playing those games. Heck, I do too! But I also can understand Egosoft's shift and new perspective. They are trying to make everything bigger, and the old X game design just did not cut it.
This is just the 1st game of the new X-series of games (rebirth is a great name for it), so we just have to watch it grow. With Egosoft track record of always improving and making things greater, I think that this is the start of a really wonderful NEW series of games.