[POLL] Would you use Steam for Rebirth?

General discussions about X Rebirth.

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Would you purchase Rebirth if Steam is required...

Just for activation
210
9%
For activation and updates
1478
63%
I would never use Steam if it was the last surviving games platform
603
26%
If Steam required periodic log-ins to check your install
62
3%
 
Total votes: 2353

Ebany
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Post by Ebany » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 05:43

NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:
slimgrin wrote:If Steam's only purpose was to provide a service, it wouldn't be mandatory. So yes, Steam is very much about DRM and exclusivity. The more software clients we get in the industry, the less choice gamers will have.
Steams primary purpose is to be a storefront.
Steam themselves say they are not a "digital store", they are "a digital distribution, digital rights management, multiplayer and communications platform developed by Valve Corporation"
slimgrin wrote:Steam's primary purpose is to be an exclusive storefront for games whenever they can.
"Social Networking" as Valve likes to say. This title allows them a unique amount of movement room, from a legal perspective, compared to a "merchant".
Inverness wrote:Actually, Steam's offline mode will work indefinitely. You only need to login once to setup your game then you can stay in offline mode forever.
Not unless they're changed something in the last couple of years. Off-line mode was a big issue for me back then as I worked in very remote areas with little or no internet capabilities.
slimgrin wrote:
TTD wrote:ok,ok...

So what would you non-Steamers say if Egosoft and it's publishers started their own server for downloading entire games , with similar mechanisms installed that are in Steam?
They don't need to. Make it available on all distributors and host mods on Nexus or any other site.
+1
Inverness wrote:Valve says that offline mode is designed to be indefinite but admits that there can be bugs since the offline mode consist of many different parts.

If you don't report bugs like this they won't get fixed.
Oh, I've reported the bugs alright ........ for years.
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Chris0132
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Post by Chris0132 » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 05:46

slimgrin wrote:
Chris0132 wrote:Complaining that a digital distribution platform doesn't work very well without an internet connection is like complaining that a cellular phone doesn't work very well without a network.

THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR...
Wow...you really believe this? The only thing I want from them is a game, not a service, not their client, not their DRM.

GOG, Amazon and other distribution services agree. They just give me the game, no strings attached. It's a sad state of affairs when gamers think they actually need DRM and forced game clients..
Which makes steam the smartphone on contract to the go-phone of amazon.

If you use it a lot it becomes far more efficient and cost effective than the single-use version. GoG and amazon don't offer anything but the game, if you just want the game that's fine, steam tries to sell you on other things and it does a quite good job of it. You've got your steam workshop, community, screenshot uploader thingy, DLC support for everything you buy on it, quite a few nice 'if you bought our previous game here's a discount on our next game' offers, good sales, lots of stuff.

Saying you just want the basic option is fine, but saying steam is doing nothing but offering that plus DRM is really inaccurate. They seem to be doing more or less everything they can to find more ways to make the service attractive to people, which is a bit of a far cry from saying 'hey we're putting DRM on everything and you have to use it, no you don't get anything in return, go to hell', which is what we had before.

Ebany
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Post by Ebany » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 06:24

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342 GO VOTE

^^ New poll for those who wish to voice their opinion in the only proven way which shows results, numbers!

We can talk all day in this thread, but since it was created Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:35 pm, it is archaic. I will assume people will continue to discuss in this thread, so every now and then I'll bump this comment so others can access the new poll.
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Post by The_Mess » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 07:00

:roll:

This just in, but it's the publishers that put the DRM on steam games, as they could perfectly well publish the game on steam without the steam specific DRM attached. Which is what Paradox did with SotS II until gamespy PVP match making service died and was set up with steam. So moaning about steam as though they're to blame seems rather downright silly.

As for why developers like steam, it comes down to only having to put 1-3 patch version out (windows, mac linux), instead of how ever many distribution platforms and DRM versions there are, easy and fairly robust means of pushing patches to players, development build management and ease of sending out press preview/review copies. Not to forget either, but the basic DRM system steam uses prevents pre-launch piracy* and doesn't have a habit of eating peoples optical drives (hello starforce) or carries with it stupid install limits, driver clashes and doesn't work when the authentication servers are down due to accidental DDOS from players during launch.

And frankly, while the issues with steam vis internet connection issues and low data caps due to ****ty ISP's strike me as perfectly rational. But no matter which way I model it, the rest just strikes me as fairly irrational due to faulty costing of steam as a program and as a distribution and DRM system. Then again having depression has made me much more capable of weighing these sorts of things as empirically as possible *cough*.

___________________________________________
*unless a pre-launch review copy leaks of course...

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Post by Jumee » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 07:05

Ebany wrote:Not unless they're changed something in the last couple of years. Off-line mode was a big issue for me back then as I worked in very remote areas with little or no internet capabilities
I think they have, problems with off-line mode has become a lot less frequent for me (some other posters have reported that too - we also had a poster run steam in perpetual offline mode (he dislikes it) and he reported success)
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Post by Rabiator der II. » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 11:39

Jumee wrote:
Ebany wrote:Not unless they're changed something in the last couple of years. Off-line mode was a big issue for me back then as I worked in very remote areas with little or no internet capabilities
I think they have, problems with off-line mode has become a lot less frequent for me (some other posters have reported that too - we also had a poster run steam in perpetual offline mode (he dislikes it) and he reported success)
I could find no official statements by Valve about how long offline mode works until Steam wants to phone home and refuses further game starts if there is no internet connection.

User comments on various forums indicate it is not uniform, I have read comments ranging from "a few days" to "years/never". The possible duration seems to vary by game and maybe even by account.
Gazz in the LT forum:
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Ebany
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Post by Ebany » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 12:43

Ebany wrote:http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342 GO VOTE

^^ New poll for those who wish to voice their opinion in the only proven way which shows results, numbers!

We can talk all day in this thread, but since it was created Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:35 pm, it is archaic. I will assume people will continue to discuss in this thread, so every now and then I'll bump this comment so others can access the new poll.
Don't forget to have your say, VOTE NOW!

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342
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NUKLEAR-SLUG
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Post by NUKLEAR-SLUG » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 17:36

BDK wrote:It's DRM. Stop pretending it's anything else.
It has optional DRM as one of the many features that it offers to publishers.

If you want to apportion blame for the implementation of DRM in a game then apply that blame to the developer/publisher that made the decision to implement it, not the service that merely offered it as an option. There are after all several developer/publishers who when offered the exact same optional feature said thanks, but we're fine without.

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Post by Inverness » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 17:42

Ebany wrote:
Ebany wrote:http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342 GO VOTE

^^ New poll for those who wish to voice their opinion in the only proven way which shows results, numbers!

We can talk all day in this thread, but since it was created Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:35 pm, it is archaic. I will assume people will continue to discuss in this thread, so every now and then I'll bump this comment so others can access the new poll.
Don't forget to have your say, VOTE NOW!

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342
You are spamming links to your thread, stop it.

Edit: Also, as Slug said, it's entirely possible to distribute games and tools on Steam without them requiring Steam to run.

cw8
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Post by cw8 » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 18:22

Not suggesting anything but I really like the way Telltale handles digital sales. They have their own webstore which sells their games. They also sell on Steam, GOG, Gamersgate, etc. Of course people buying from their webstore gives them 100% of the money. In fact they gave me free 400 Days Walking Dead DLC because I bought directly from their store.
And best thing is they take orders for physical box copies which I have bought and received as well, only have to pay shipping.

Inverness
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Post by Inverness » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 18:38

cw8 wrote:Not suggesting anything but I really like the way Telltale handles digital sales. They have their own webstore which sells their games. They also sell on Steam, GOG, Gamersgate, etc. Of course people buying from their webstore gives them 100% of the money. In fact they gave me free 400 Days Walking Dead DLC because I bought directly from their store.
And best thing is they take orders for physical box copies which I have bought and received as well, only have to pay shipping.
As it has already been explained before, having several different means of distribution makes it more difficult to handle updates. Also having to maintain your own webstore requires an investment that could be better spent on the actual game.

Games that are sold through many different means are also games that tend not to need a lot of post-release support. That isn't the case for EgoSoft and X Rebirth.

Ebany
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Post by Ebany » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 19:46

Inverness wrote:
Ebany wrote:
Ebany wrote:http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342 GO VOTE

^^ New poll for those who wish to voice their opinion in the only proven way which shows results, numbers!

We can talk all day in this thread, but since it was created Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:35 pm, it is archaic. I will assume people will continue to discuss in this thread, so every now and then I'll bump this comment so others can access the new poll.
Don't forget to have your say, VOTE NOW!

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342
You are spamming links to your thread, stop it.
As I said, I will continue to bump this "spamming" of the new thread where people can NOW vote and CONTINUE to debate when I think its link may be lost.

As the creator of this thread (TTD) has stated, this thread is about to get archived, please stop posting here and move to the new one.

If you fell I'm spamming, please feel free to move to the new thread

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=341342

and vote or abuse my tenacious habits through a comment of your own. Or just report me, though I think that would be rather extreme, even for a Steam luv'n fanboy :D
Inverness wrote:Edit: Also, as Slug said, it's entirely possible to distribute games and tools on Steam without them requiring Steam to run.
Certainly is, and that's one of the options to vote for in the poll, "Maybe, if I can then get a DRM-Free copy from Egosoft.", this is the one I voted for.
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TTD
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Post by TTD » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 19:54

You will note that every 100 pages gets archived. but the thread in remained "alive" for further discussion.
This may happen again,but it is up to the mods to decide.
As I said, I do not mind if the discussion is now moved to your thread.
I think having such a long ,ongoing thread is quite an achievement for me. :D

However, the mods do not like "bumping" very much, so be warned.

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EmperorJon
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Post by EmperorJon » Sun, 11. Aug 13, 20:02

Yeah I think this is a real record contender, TTD. ;)


@Ebany

Everyone can see the thread, everyone knows it's there, bumping is bad and so is spamming, ok? :sceptic:
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Post by NUKLEAR-SLUG » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 03:44

Ebany wrote:If you fell I'm spamming, please feel free to move to the new thread

and vote or abuse my tenacious habits through a comment of your own. Or just report me, though I think that would be rather extreme, even for a Steam luv'n fanboy :D
You're still spamming this thread with links to one you started and half the posts in your own thread are just you bumping it yourself in a thread that brings nothing to the argument that this one doesn't provide already.

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Post by Stars_InTheirEyes » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 04:14

For you non-steam preachers, can I ask you a simple question?

Have you tried Steam?

The phrase "don't mock it till you've tried it" is very much true for steam.

You hear one person's bad experience and assume the same thing will happen to you but in truth nothing bad will ever happen.
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Post by Captain Lemmiwinks » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 04:56

Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:For you non-steam preachers, can I ask you a simple question?

Have you tried Steam?

The phrase "don't mock it till you've tried it" is very much true for steam.

You hear one person's bad experience and assume the same thing will happen to you but in truth nothing bad will ever happen.

you also hear of 1 persons good experience and assume the same will happen to you.

then you install it and find it has no use other than to >
use memory,
take space,
poke its nose into your system,
spam you with ads,
turn a gameplay experience into a nightmare
draining a monthly bandwidth allowance,
install bad patchs without consent,

unless of course you know something steam actually does that benefits the gamer.

we used to just buy a game,install it and play

with steam its just hoops and problems.

the rallying cry these days if a game crashes is to "get steam to check game files"

game files never used to corrupt so badly that they needed re-installing every other day.

I dont hate steam,its just a company trying to screw...i mean make money.
problem is its trying to make money while providing nothing in return but problems.

the only people to benefit are the developers,who seem to think nothing of passing us on to a vampiric company while at the same time trying to curry loyalty.

"game crashed ?,steams fault"
"tech support ?..go ask steam"

steams tech support = re-download the game files over and over and over again.

if theres indeed nothing spurious about developers deals with steam,why wont they tell us why they have funnelled gamers into draculas lair ?

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Post by Slashman » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 07:03

Captain Lemmiwinks wrote:you also hear of 1 persons good experience and assume the same will happen to you.

then you install it and find it has no use other than to >
use memory,
take space,
Every program you install on your PC does this. It's kind of a given.
poke its nose into your system,
You can opt out of the hardware and software survey.
spam you with ads,
You can turn off game ad pop-ups
turn a gameplay experience into a nightmare
By doing what exactly?
draining a monthly bandwidth allowance,
It's an online service. It connects to the internet if you're online and has features which use the internet.
install bad patchs without consent,
Developers release bad patches. And I'm not a fan of the auto install thing. However, Steam has a beta patch facility which I wish more developers would use. It allows testing of new patches for those who want to opt in and leaves the last patch version until the beta patch has been officially approved. Several developers are using this method.
unless of course you know something steam actually does that benefits the gamer.
Well lets see. Community groups. Built-in screenshot facility. Cloud storage for saved games. Friend lists and recommendations. Organization of your games into categories. Ability to install your game on any system without discs. Awesome sales. Integrated voice chat and game servers for supported games. When you buy one game you own it on all platforms(PC, Mac and Linux) without having to purchase a separate copy for each.
we used to just buy a game,install it and play
I did that just today. Sacred 2 Gold. Bought it, downloaded it. Hit play, it installed and immediately launched the game.
with steam its just hoops and problems.
That's simply not universally true.
the rallying cry these days if a game crashes is to "get steam to check game files"
Actually, a lot of the time that has to do with developers pushing bad updates out.
game files never used to corrupt so badly that they needed re-installing every other day.
Mine certainly don't need resinstalling every other day...or at all really.

Interesting story. Year before last I swore that STeam was corrupting my game files. Specifically, Serious Sam 3 would need re-verifying every few days. Other games were acting wonky and I assumed that because Steam was involved with each of them that it must be corrupted itself.

Turned out I had a faulty motherboard. I changed it, kept that exact same OS install, did not reinstall a thing except the new drivers for my new board and am still running that same Steam install and programs from then. No Steam-related crashes since. Lots of people don't realize that even a small hardware fault can cause extremely odd issues. My system was running everything else fine. Only in the very latter stages did I start to see an effect on other programs and Windows.
I dont hate steam,its just a company trying to screw...i mean make money.
problem is its trying to make money while providing nothing in return but problems.
In your opinion. I quite like a number of its features.
the only people to benefit are the developers,who seem to think nothing of passing us on to a vampiric company while at the same time trying to curry loyalty.
I think PC gaming as a whole has benefitted from Steam. Many games and developers would not be around today without it. It's got faults here and there, but it is nowehere near as catastrophic a deal as some people try to make it out.
"game crashed ?,steams fault"
"tech support ?..go ask steam"
When is a game crashing automatically Steam's fault? Because the game was running on Steam at the time? I've seen very few cases of games crashing and being the fault of Steam itself.
steams tech support = re-download the game files over and over and over again.
Steam tech support isn't tech support for the game itself. It's tech support for Steam. Most of the time you should probably be dealing with the developers for support if you're crashing.
if theres indeed nothing spurious about developers deals with steam,why wont they tell us why they have funnelled gamers into draculas lair ?
How many more times must they say it? Or are they not saying what you want them to say? You want them to say it is a huge conspiracy to oppress the gaming public?

It really comes down using a platform that makes it easier for them to release and support their games without having to maintain multiple versions of them. Steam also offers a lot of other benefits to developers.

A developer doesn't have to take every single action based on a direct benefit to the gamer. They have a business to run.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

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TTD
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Post by TTD » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 10:58

The advantages for me, concerning Steam....

No need of endless shelf space to store my boxed games.(although I do like them.).

Seamless downloads and updates when required.

Not many shops arounds selling new PC games.
Even second hand PC games are getting thin on the ground.

Main dissadvantage for me is

If wanting to play a game that has an update available,despite "checking" the no update box, it still insists on updating before I can play.

If I was,and sometimes I am, on mobilebroadband, it will use my monthly allowance.
When I switch on Steam,it auto updates before I get it's web page.

To get around this, I can just use my browser to go to the site ,and see if there is anything worth downloading,before I connect "properly".

Ebany
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Post by Ebany » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 13:17

NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:
Ebany wrote:If you fell I'm spamming, please feel free to move to the new thread
You're still spamming this thread with links to one you started
Starting a thread isn't like been first in line for porridge, it brings no prestige. In fact, looking at my history you can see that I rarely participate in threads (though I have spent countless hours reading them) because I find my input is not required.

Of all the topics ever to have passed my eyes over the years, this I consider the most important by far. This topic will make me stay or go.

This is not so much a "thread" as it was a "poll". Again, this Poll is TWO (2) years old and about to hit the 100 page mark, more the point, the polling is closed. This thread is redundant. If you wish to discuss "current" issues regarding Egosoft's decision to use Steam and cast a vote, go to the new thread ..... or stay to see the last few pages of jibber-jabber.

For all the reasons I've just list, I don't really see it as possible to spam a thread which is about to close.
NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:half the posts in your own thread are just you bumping it yourself
I think of it as "remaining active"
NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:in a thread that brings nothing to the argument that this one doesn't provide already.
It's a "poll", arguing over some-ones subjective perspective on another's curious delusions negates any tangible finality, it's always confusing and non-productive
NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:
Ebany wrote:even for a Steam luv'n fanboy :D
This was an error, I apologise deeply. I would like to retract "fanboy", I meant to use zealot :D
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