Unbiased Poll about The Pride of Albion vs multiple ships - Part 1

General discussions about X Rebirth.

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Simoom
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Post by Simoom » Fri, 22. Feb 13, 17:27

Slashman wrote:Simoom,

Let me answer your post by saying that one of the great things about X3 was that you always had an option as to what your go-to ship was. And you may be surprised to learn that many people have different tastes in which ship should be theirs.

So you may be surprised to learn that your two examples of the 'ultimate ship' which makes all others unattractive simply don't match my play experiences. Different people like different things. The more options you have, the better you are at satisfying a diverse audience with varying tastes.

To begin with, some of us don't even like the looks of the Skunk. But we can't do squat about it. Taking options away is never a good thing. It doesn't matter how the devs spin it. We are getting a single ship with a fixed and linear upgrade path that we cannot advance apart from plot missions. This may sound appealing to you, but it is less of a joyful thing for me.

The other thing I want to point out is your last statement about the AI. Most of the fundamental problems with X3 were a direct result of limited AI capability. They didn't provide a challenge in combat and they would not use their lateral thrusters to strafe.

Assuming that the devs are serious about having fixed these issues, then then one wonders why we're being so limited in what we can and cannot directly control. My theory is that they have 'fixed' them by making the AI more 'on rails'. Cap ships can only respond to the player's commands in a certain way, ships with specialized functions are not under the player's direct control. I think that, in essence, smarter AI literally means AI with more restrictions.

Time will tell if I am right or wrong, but I suspect this to be the case.
Those are fair points. :)

Just FYI I did vote in favor of having multiple ships, for the poll. I personally don't think it'll impact my enjoyment of the game that much, but having the freedom/option would indeed be nice.
Geek wrote:The Hyperion and Springblossom are hardly representative of their class.
And we know the Albion do not have the same capabilities, neither for trading or combat. She can not take capitals on her own (not even upgraded). She can cannot carry the largest type of drones etc.
They may be exceptions for their class - but I suspect they were meant to be "player ships" by design (notice how ships in X3 are not balanced - there are good ships and bad ships. Some ships you simply have no reason to own from a performance standpoint). And since the Albion Skunk is an UPGRADEABLE ship, I have a feeling it will possess similar capabilities to the Springblossom/Hyperion when fully upgraded (if not more).

Not sure where you read "Albion do not have the same capabilities, neither for trading or combat". I've never read such a thing. Only thing I ever read from Bernd was the player ship isn't meant to take on capitols by itself - which you arguably can't really do in X3AP with a corvette already. So... not a big deal in my opinion. Assuming the new AI is up to the task, I have nothing against calling in my own capitols for large battles and just sit back and watch the fireworks.

If the Albion lacks cargo space for trading runs, you buy freighters - when was the last time someone actually did manual trading runs in X3? :P

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Divine Shadow
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One ship huh

Post by Divine Shadow » Sat, 9. Mar 13, 17:46

So i hear like X-Tension (or was it X-BTF? cant remember) you are personally inside one ship and you dont get a new ship to replace it.

However it said you can obtain any ship just like in X-TC such as fighters/capital ships etc.

However lets say you captured a Xenon K in X-Rebirth you apparently cant *teleport to the ship , shoot at ur old ship and blow it up and fly away and cause havoc on universe* but you can land on the capital ship and give it orders and watch in 1st person as your orders are carried out? Does that mean you cant exactly steer it yourself but through chat?


So in X-Rebirth all i can do is sip tea and say "Destroy them* to my Destroyer captain rather than controlling it myself?

Does this mean we cant control the turrets of said ship to prevent the AI from foolishly losing a battle?

Anybody got a good source of information on this stuff?

Oh and finally X-Rebirth will have a SCRIPT EDITOR right?
Last edited by Divine Shadow on Sat, 9. Mar 13, 17:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dougeye » Sat, 9. Mar 13, 17:50

all ill say is try reading the stickies at the top of the forum, thought id let you know before the possibility of a thread lock on the grounds of multiple threads on the same subject ;)

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Divine Shadow
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Post by Divine Shadow » Sat, 9. Mar 13, 17:55

dougeye wrote:all ill say is try reading the stickies at the top of the forum, thought id let you know before the possibility of a thread lock on the grounds of multiple threads on the same subject ;)
I read the stickies before posting they didnt answer the questions i put forth.

But whatever if you want to lock peoples post at least put useful information in said stickies.

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Geek
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Re: One ship huh

Post by Geek » Sat, 9. Mar 13, 19:23

Divine Shadow wrote:However lets say you captured a Xenon K in X-Rebirth you apparently cant *teleport to the ship , shoot at ur old ship and blow it up and fly away and cause havoc on universe* but you can land on the capital ship and give it orders and watch in 1st person as your orders are carried out? Does that mean you cant exactly steer it yourself but through chat?
You can own capitals and give orders to their crew (from the outside), but that is all about it.
Oh and finally X-Rebirth will have a SCRIPT EDITOR right?
THere will be modding tools at some point but not on release.
Right on commander !

Dead Cat
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want to directly control various ships.

Post by Dead Cat » Wed, 1. May 13, 00:17

want to directly control various ships. one ship with the ability to transform this good, but I would like to manage and others. the availability of such a possibility the game will only get better.
new control system is not yet clear how look and feel, but would like to save and the old system of ship management. let the player decides what he likes. choose one or combine.

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Post by Yohandis Yololo Yum VII » Wed, 1. May 13, 05:59

I don't know much because I have not played the game yet. So, I don't know whether or not I will like the new control system.

I agree that we should have the option to helm a capital ship, if that's what you are getting at within the post. I think it is unrealistic to be eternally trapped on a ship (I know you can move a bit and that you can pilot drones, so this is not technically correct, but it is pretty much equivalent). I'm sure someone will say we will be too bored flying capitals despite the fact that we know what we want. That seems to be the recurring theme, though I'm sure there are people that will say I'm wrong. Just my view.

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Earth Ultimatum IV.
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Post by Earth Ultimatum IV. » Wed, 1. May 13, 09:56

You can control a capital ship. You land on it, leave the Skunk and take a sit on the deck. You give orders to the captain, and he gives the orders to other people. Then you can watch the action you planned from the main deck.
Yes you can´t control the ship directly, you can´t steer the rudder.
But, c´mon, why should you for the mother of love?
With new AI, you will not fear the things you have feared in older games. Example when you ordered a capital to land on a station, it was circleing around asteroids several minutes before it got in there. Egosoft put end to this. Completly reworked AI, you don´t want to steer the huge, bulky and slow warship just because it takes longer in AI hands than in players.

Basically, it´s the same as it was in older games, you just can´t use mouse or keyboard to steer the ship, instead of that you give orders, which are perfectly executed and the ship doesn´t circle around asteroids hopelessly.
This is how I understood the info they gave us.

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Post by Cabrelbeuk » Wed, 1. May 13, 12:46

I understood that the Skunk would be our "ship", but anyone have visual information on it ?

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Earth Ultimatum IV.
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Post by Earth Ultimatum IV. » Wed, 1. May 13, 12:54

Cabrelbeuk wrote:I understood that the Skunk would be our "ship", but anyone have visual information on it ?
You can find the Skunk in X3 Albion Prelude, at the end of main JSSD plot.
anyway, here are some pictures, personally I really like the Skunk.
http://www.egosoft.com//img/content_x_rebirth_quote.gif
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/ori ... -farm1.jpg
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/04/X-Rebirth-3.jpg

The "Albion Pride" ship is a light corvette, it sacrifices shields and cargo space for speed and manuverability. Thus the ship has speed and rudder similar to M3 class, but weaponry is somewhere between M3 and M6. It also has some turrets, in X Rebirth the Skunk is meant to be a Drone carrier, the cargo bay is fulled with drones of any kind, example salvage drones, mining drones, spy drones, fighting drones, meat shield drones that absorb damage, freight drones and of course, kamikadze drones that work like missiles, but are a little bit more inteligent.
You can also control the drones yourself, via Virtual Reality from first person, I mean, steer the drone, fly it, from the safety of Skunk.

And of course, since in Rebirth the number of ships is significantly smaller, the Skunk is the deepest ship ever. You can upgrade any aspect of the ship, I heard that the Skunk is a junk slow and not too powerful ship at beggining, but as you play the story, you will upgrade it and at the end it´s like 50 times better than at start.

But still, Skunk is a light corvette, and can´t match capital ships. If you want to fight capitals, you gotta get one yourself, and get a skilled captain. Then you can help your capital ship by shooting fighters attacking it, or by attacking weak spots of hostile capital ships, example by destroying the turrets, jumpdrive engines, shield generators or engine thrusters.

There have also been some rumors about boarding drones, which deliver marines to hostile capital ship.

Now I feel like a Skunk-phile, lol.

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Post by Cabrelbeuk » Wed, 1. May 13, 13:07

Thank you for informations :D ! I spent 150 hours on X3:R so i didn't want to switch on TR or AB.

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Post by Rabiator der II. » Wed, 1. May 13, 14:18

We had a discussion about this before:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=309030

This thread will probably end up being merged. But before that happens, I'll use the opportunity to repeat an old suggestion :wink: :

Why not two or three additional player ships for upgrading, as in Privateer?
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Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 1. May 13, 14:37

Correct, over we go to the main thread.
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Post by Honved » Wed, 1. May 13, 16:51

In X3:TC, I enjoy the change of pace: flying an M3 ship most of the time, with the option to do an M5 speed run to get some VIP to a meeting on time, or to switch over to an M7 and take on a couple of Qs, before returning to the M3. If only it wasn't so sterile and devoid of contact with other NPCs.....

By limiting the player to one ship, it's just the same thing over and over, with incremental upgrades from time to time. That seems like more of the same old "grind" mechanics of most traditional RPGs or MMOs.

At the very least, make it so you have to make hard choices about whether to put in the bigger shield generator by removing a pair of weapons, or suffering with a major loss of cargo space due to installing a larger engine. The ship should conform more to the player's style with options and upgrades, not simply "improve" in general. The "each level gets one step better", with no additional drawbacks to the added benefits, quickly gets boring and linear, and I see no point in playing it.

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Post by Slashman » Wed, 1. May 13, 17:25

Honved wrote:In X3:TC, I enjoy the change of pace: flying an M3 ship most of the time, with the option to do an M5 speed run to get some VIP to a meeting on time, or to switch over to an M7 and take on a couple of Qs, before returning to the M3. If only it wasn't so sterile and devoid of contact with other NPCs.....

By limiting the player to one ship, it's just the same thing over and over, with incremental upgrades from time to time. That seems like more of the same old "grind" mechanics of most traditional RPGs or MMOs.

At the very least, make it so you have to make hard choices about whether to put in the bigger shield generator by removing a pair of weapons, or suffering with a major loss of cargo space due to installing a larger engine. The ship should conform more to the player's style with options and upgrades, not simply "improve" in general. The "each level gets one step better", with no additional drawbacks to the added benefits, quickly gets boring and linear, and I see no point in playing it.
They already went over this. It won't be an either/or choice in upgrades. You get and keep all upgrades on your ship at once. You also can't mix gun types etc. You get an upgrade, it is there forever with no penalty to anything else. Fun and replayability... :?
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Post by Earth Ultimatum IV. » Wed, 1. May 13, 17:40

Wait a mizura...I heard different intel.
The Skunk can be inproved with modules. Not all modules can be installed at one time, so you have to select carefuly which one you want.
:?

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Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 1. May 13, 18:10

I thought (surface) modules were more for stations and capital ships. The Skunk would get upgrades released by plot progress and access to new technology. As said, weapon technology mounted has to be preselected I think. It was the many differing types of drones that the Skunk was limited in carrying by quantity/space and therefore in having access to their different technologies in any one mission or trip.
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Post by Dr2i » Wed, 1. May 13, 18:33

Upgrades...modules...don't see the difference
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Post by Dead Cat » Wed, 1. May 13, 18:41

new idea for control ship is good, but why give up the old one? old version control like many ships. let it remain and the old way of control. let there be more opportunities and options for managing the ships. Players will find themselves and choose what you like more.
developers like the new idea, but why kill the old for her?

controlled from the bridge of the M1-M2 is really boring, but I would choose it myself! be good idea for variable ways of control

remove the feeling of being in the cockpit or on the bridge of a spaceship - it's a very big loss for me! why the team can not be given in the form of a dialogue with the bridge? Why not instruct the officers of the ship before the battle strategy of behavior?
Last edited by Dead Cat on Wed, 1. May 13, 18:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Jumee » Wed, 1. May 13, 18:44

squirrelrider wrote:Upgrades...modules...don't see the difference
modules take up slots - thus there is a trade-off, upgrades are linear improvements - thus there are no trade-offs

as far as I remember Skunk will only get upgraded - which means that as you progress through the plot your ship becomes better in a linear fashion with no tradeoff - well I'm not sure how drones play into this

while modules that are used on capital ships appear to be limited by the number of slots you can stick them to, thus there is a tradeoff
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