Single ship = can't pilot other ships?

[CutterJohn1]

I disagree with the premise of this discussion. In XR, we have a number of drones that we can can fly, directly controlling them in the first person via the VR goggles--multiple ship purists love to shoot this concept down stating that drones aren’t really “ships” because we are not really inside them--well, the last time I checked, I’ve always controlled my ships from previous X games via a VR module I like to refer to as my “PC & Monitor”.

So wanting to be inside something and experience it firsthand is irrelevant.

Plus, I’ll take a cool, personalized, Millenium Falcon-esque ship with an ass kicking cockpit and interior any day of the week over the offerings from past games...

Except when it isn't?

Wanting to be physically onboard that other ship, with your fates intertwined, and reload screen threatening if you mess up, is every bit as valid as wanting to be onboard the skunk.

Would you be happy controlling the skunk purely from an abstracted perspective? If now, why would you suggest people be happy with the drones?

I welcome the one ship because it will bring much needed balance to the game. As satisfying as it was to bring a bigger ship or fleet to complete a mission that you previously failed, it just took the challenge away. I really hope Egosoft will think long and hard before adding more flyable ships to the game.

Rather irrelevant, though. This is a game where you can bring many ships along with you, so they already must balance the game according to a fairly wide variation in player power.

Unless they rather arbitrarily prevent you from bringing along any wingmen, any ability to balance the game based on knowing exactly what ship the player is flying is lost completely.

So basically, we have three alternatives.

1) The game is balanced based on the skunk alone. Then balance is already shot because fleets.

2) The game has variable balance based on the players combined military might. Then it doesn't matter what ship the player is in, they've already had to account for it.

3) The game is balanced based on the skunk alone, and you can't bring your fleet along. Then.. well that would just suck. What is the point of a fleet if you can't bring it with you?

[A5PECT]

My guess is Rebirth will follow a similar trajectory, perhaps even at an accelerated rate by jumping straight into a sequel without an expansion in between (given the rather promising sales numbers thus far), or move to the X-Tension phase via a free patch rather than a paid expansion.

They've said they want to release paid dlc/expansions for Rebirth, in addition to free patches. Which I welcome, I like getting a couple years out of a game before moving on to the sequel.

I'm aware of this. I'm wondering how exactly content additions will be packaged: which features go into patches, which features go into paid expansions, and which features go into full-blown sequels.

My thinking is adding multiple ships (of any number) as part of a free patch would do worlds of good for Egosoft's customer loyalty. But if that's not possible I'm personally fine with it being in an expansion or sequel.

[Santi]

Balance was shot because the player was a thousand times better in any ship that the AI, that was the reason. In Rebirth you only have the Skunk to make a difference, so 2 cap ship against 2 cap ships and the skunk, you probably win, 3 cap ships against 2 cap ships and the skunk, you are going to struggle. In X3 4 cap ships against 1 cap ship and you in a kestrel, you win, all the time, everytime.

[CutterJohn1]

Balance was shot because the player was a thousand times better in any ship that the AI, that was the reason. In Rebirth you only have the Skunk to make a difference, so 2 cap ship against 2 cap ships and the skunk, you probably win, 3 cap ships against 2 cap ships and the skunk, you are going to struggle. In X3 4 cap ships against 1 cap ship and you in a kestrel, you win, all the time, everytime.

Yes, the AI was completely confused by the player superpowers. Strafe, which NPCs simply could not do. Dodging, which they did only by accident. Finding blind spots, which they never did. Staying out of range of guns and shooting missiles(missiles, on the whole were really something only the player used regardless).

There were a variety of very fundamental issues with the combat model and AI in general that allowed the player to basically negate the threat of any NPC ship and easily kill them. Hopefully XR fixed those.


It wasn't helped that their player death scenario was quite punitive(game over). If the system encompassed an eject and try again with a new ship mechanism, they could have more safely raised the competence of the AI.

I believe this last is addressed in XR with the turbo. You seem to be one of the fastest ships in the game with the turbo. This will enable them to enable the player to lose without dying by being able to run effectively.

[hisazul]

My guess is Rebirth will follow a similar trajectory, perhaps even at an accelerated rate by jumping straight into a sequel without an expansion in between (given the rather promising sales numbers thus far), or move to the X-Tension phase via a free patch rather than a paid expansion.

They've said they want to release paid dlc/expansions for Rebirth, in addition to free patches. Which I welcome, I like getting a couple years out of a game before moving on to the sequel.

Waaaait. They officially confimed going dlc route? Well... now I have an actual reason to worry.

/sigh

Tempted to rant... but I won't be subjective or kind in that regard. Suffice to say if they do... I may loose my last bastion of hope >_>

[jasonbarron]

@CutterJohn1--Okay, so we don't agree, no surprise there. I don't put my thoughts out there to knock anyone else's down, rather, I post them to show the other side of the coin.

On Friday, odds are that between the two of us only one will be having a lot of fun with XR.

[jasonbarron]

My guess is Rebirth will follow a similar trajectory, perhaps even at an accelerated rate by jumping straight into a sequel without an expansion in between (given the rather promising sales numbers thus far), or move to the X-Tension phase via a free patch rather than a paid expansion.

They've said they want to release paid dlc/expansions for Rebirth, in addition to free patches. Which I welcome, I like getting a couple years out of a game before moving on to the sequel.

Waaaait. They officially confimed going dlc route? Well... now I have an actual reason to worry.

/sigh

Tempted to rant... but I won't be subjective or kind in that regard. Suffice to say if they do... I may loose my last bastion of hope >_>

Yes, hisazul, Egosoft is a business that is out to turn a profit.

[Mauzi!]

They officially confimed going dlc route?

No they didn't, and it's not what was said above either.

They said that they'll decided on a case by case basis an try to follow the past standards of offering free extra content as they deem feasable.

[hisazul]

My guess is Rebirth will follow a similar trajectory, perhaps even at an accelerated rate by jumping straight into a sequel without an expansion in between (given the rather promising sales numbers thus far), or move to the X-Tension phase via a free patch rather than a paid expansion.

They've said they want to release paid dlc/expansions for Rebirth, in addition to free patches. Which I welcome, I like getting a couple years out of a game before moving on to the sequel.

Waaaait. They officially confimed going dlc route? Well... now I have an actual reason to worry.

/sigh

Tempted to rant... but I won't be subjective or kind in that regard. Suffice to say if they do... I may loose my last bastion of hope >_>

Yes, hisazul, Egosoft is a business that is out to turn a profit.

Thats your opinion. As great as it is. I asked if it was confirmed.

They officially confimed going dlc route?

No they didn't, and it's not what was said above either.

They said that they'll decided on a case by case basis an try to follow the past standards of offering free extra content as they deem feasable.

Ah thanks, I couldn't find any dlc confirmation either. While AP may feel like just a patch to TC to some... but to me it was a major overhaul of things. It deserved to be what it was an x-pack. And it deserved a price tag.

[jasonbarron]

@hisazul--Egosoft being a business is a statement of fact.

@Mauzi1--I don't have time to look it up, but I'm almost 100% sure that Bernd stated in an interview that they would be releasing future "paid expansions" as well as free patches. Not sure if that counts as DLC or not.

[Santi]

They also confirmed, patches, free updates, dlc, expansions and God forbid, a sequel. It is all down to how you do it, the "Multicolored armor of the Unicorn" for £1.99 dlc is a rip off. The "Fighter pack" with 3 fighters, the "On the Navy" mission pack and the new start, "Space Top Gun yeah baby", for £1.99 sounds reasonable.

On the other hand, pretty sure lots of twits will buy the "Big boob enhancement pack for Yisha" for £5.99.

[hisazul]

Expansion is anything but dlc. What dlc became is some rubbish ranging from skins to 20 minutes of gameplay addition. Expansion implies a considerable addition to current features ontop of improvements/overhauls and such. In most cases its a giant patch to current version with new features and content.
Not a new texture for your ship.

[CutterJohn1]

@CutterJohn1--Okay, so we don't agree, no surprise there. I don't put my thoughts out there to knock anyone else's down, rather, I post them to show the other side of the coin.

I, too, post to show the other side of the coin. This thread would not have reached 75 pages if people didn't keep coming in and telling those who feel the games limitations are detrimental that they shouldn't feel that way, have no right to feel that way, etc.

On Friday, odds are that between the two of us only one will be having a lot of fun with XR.

There is a difference between thinking a game is bad, and thinking it could be better. XR looks great, but some of their decisions have really left me scratching my head, this one more than most. So I will look forward to a great game, rather than the outstanding game I believe they could have made had they prioritized differently.

[jasonbarron]

@CutterJohn1--Okay, so we don't agree, no surprise there. I don't put my thoughts out there to knock anyone else's down, rather, I post them to show the other side of the coin.

I, too, post to show the other side of the coin. This thread would not have reached 75 pages if people didn't keep coming in and telling those who feel the games limitations are detrimental that they shouldn't feel that way, have no right to feel that way, etc.

On Friday, odds are that between the two of us only one will be having a lot of fun with XR.

There is a difference between thinking a game is bad, and thinking it could be better. XR looks great, but some of their decisions have really left me scratching my head, this one more than most.

Okay, so maybe there is hope for you after all, my friend

[Graaf]

Plus, I’ll take a cool, personalized, Millenium Falcon-esque ship any day of the week

Me too. Now if I could only have the option to fly a transport like the Falcon...or the Serenity.

[Captain Lemmiwinks]

My guess is Rebirth will follow a similar trajectory, perhaps even at an accelerated rate by jumping straight into a sequel without an expansion in between (given the rather promising sales numbers thus far), or move to the X-Tension phase via a free patch rather than a paid expansion.

They've said they want to release paid dlc/expansions for Rebirth, in addition to free patches. Which I welcome, I like getting a couple years out of a game before moving on to the sequel.

Waaaait. They officially confimed going dlc route? Well... now I have an actual reason to worry.

/sigh

Tempted to rant... but I won't be subjective or kind in that regard. Suffice to say if they do... I may loose my last bastion of hope >_>

Yes, hisazul, Egosoft is a business that is out to turn a profit.

no problem with profiteering.

unless they are LEGO and sold a set with no corners,knowing they will be selling the corners as dlc..i mean LEGO pack 2.

thats when profiteering turns into milking a cow.

eg: [that means for example]
what if dlc turns out to be say.......ermmmmm
flying multiple ships
or
plant your facs anywhere you like

etc

might look a bit "dracula"..

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

...

Yes, hisazul, Egosoft is a business that is out to turn a profit.

no problem with profiteering.

unless they are LEGO and sold a set with no corners,knowing they will be selling the corners as dlc..i mean LEGO pack 2.

thats when profiteering turns into milking a cow.

eg: [that means for example]
what if dlc turns out to be say.......ermmmmm
flying multiple ships
or
plant your facs anywhere you like

etc

might look a bit "dracula"..

Except that neither of your examples can be fairly equated to the lego feature your are trying to equate them to. A better and closer example would be selling a lego town model with only one vehicle and perhaps only a small selection of base plates on which to structure the town but including plenty of different types of bricks. Additional DLC base plates might include air strips, docks, ponds, etc and additional DLC vehicles could be anything.

The point being (getting back on topic - or trying to) that the original game is still a complete game in it's own right and it is possible to enjoy the base game without the extras.

[Deleted User]

disagree. DLC CAN be an expansion, if developers want it to.
and for Rebirth I'd much rather have DLC which expands on the engine, rather than stand-alone expansions (like it has been for TC/AP)

[Ivorystate]

disagree. DLC CAN be an expansion, if developers want it to.
and for Rebirth I'd much rather have DLC which expands on the engine, rather than stand-alone expansions (like it has been for TC/AP)

This, DLC that expands on game mechanics is the best kind.

[JClosed]

Well - I can imagine game improvements will be free, like they have always been in the past.

I also can imagine bigger expansions will be payed for. Remember - there are a lot of gates that do not work. There are still races (and systems) out there that are not in this release of X Rebirth.

It is not too hard to think about a payed-for "Paranid expansion" or "Boron expansion" complete with detailed local system that has about the size of the system X Rebirth has now. As the Paranid where getting construction info (in X3:AP) for the highway system it is not far-fetched to imagine the Paranid have their own local highway system. The Boron where allies of the Argon - nuff said..

If those expansions would be fairly priced, I think Egosoft could have a winner here. Lovers of the X series would be satisfied and Egosoft has an income. Win-win so to say...

I'm just speculating, but I would not be surprised if this turned out to be the case.