Single ship = can't pilot other ships?

General discussions about X Rebirth.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

SpectralThundr
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue, 12. Nov 13, 03:44

Post by SpectralThundr » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 02:11

Nanook wrote:
SpectralThundr wrote:...
Basically all your posts seem to boil down to strawmen comments on how things are going to work, without even knowing how things are going to work. And complaining because they're not making the game exactly to how you want them to.
And once again, I'm forced to remind everyone to debate the topic, not the person posting. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on these forums, as long as they abide by the forum rules. So stop complaining about 'complaining'. :roll:
Noted and fair enough, it does get old when the same handful though seem to be complaining for the sake of it, with zero hands on experience to how things are actually going to work.

hisazul
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat, 15. Oct 11, 04:12
xr

Post by hisazul » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 02:34

SpectralThundr wrote:
Nanook wrote:
SpectralThundr wrote:...
Basically all your posts seem to boil down to strawmen comments on how things are going to work, without even knowing how things are going to work. And complaining because they're not making the game exactly to how you want them to.
And once again, I'm forced to remind everyone to debate the topic, not the person posting. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on these forums, as long as they abide by the forum rules. So stop complaining about 'complaining'. :roll:
Noted and fair enough, it does get old when the same handful though seem to be complaining for the sake of it, with zero hands on experience to how things are actually going to work.
Neither do you have any of this so called "hands on experience". All your rebutals or defense boils down to complaining about person who points out to how game was and where its heading now. Which brings nothing to the discussion at hand except as you called it strawmen comments.

I do sincerely hope Egosoft wont suddenly dive into dlc ocean. That is one thing I won't stand for... I loved the part about Egosoft where their patches were meaningful. And their Xpacks like TC and AP were major rehauls not some hula doll in cockpit.

I've yet to hear any good reasons to defend one ship approach with exception being story driven insensitive. Ego hasn't been all that amazing at making good stories lol... The striking similarities between the little we know/seen are too much like a mix of X:BtF which most either never played or never touched once multi-ship design came and X2...with people and stuff. Both things were for me the least interesting/memorable parts. X2 would have been better if it never had those cut-scenes lol. And if I started with anything other then X:BtF I wouldn't have abandoned game and never tried it for so many years until by pure chance and too much boredom I was semi-forced into it again.
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.” - Albert Einstein

User avatar
jasonbarron
Posts: 733
Joined: Sun, 27. Mar 11, 16:25
x4

Post by jasonbarron » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 03:21

I disagree with the premise of this discussion. In XR, we have a number of drones that we can can fly, directly controlling them in the first person via the VR goggles--multiple ship purists love to shoot this concept down stating that drones aren’t really “ships” because we are not really inside them--well, the last time I checked, I’ve always controlled my ships from previous X games via a VR module I like to refer to as my “PC & Monitor”.

Personally, I think these drones will add a lot to gameplay--fighter drones, espionage drones, torpedo drones, etc that we can we can switch back and forth from instantly in the heat of an epic battle sounds like a lot of fun, and certainly fits my personal definition of flying multiple ships.
Plus, I’ll take a cool, personalized, Millenium Falcon-esque ship with an ass kicking cockpit and interior any day of the week over the offerings from past games...half the ships in XTC needed SETA to make them “personally” flyable and the other half were generic variations of one another with minor stat differences, and all were little more than flying camera’s through space due to the lack of cockpit.

Perhaps Egosoft will include more flyable ships in future patches/expansions, and I think that would be great. Until that day, I’m happy enough for what I’m getting and most definitely looking forward to making the Skunk my own.
Ayn Rand was correct.

SpectralThundr
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue, 12. Nov 13, 03:44

Post by SpectralThundr » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 03:32

hisazul wrote:
SpectralThundr wrote:
Nanook wrote:
SpectralThundr wrote:...
Basically all your posts seem to boil down to strawmen comments on how things are going to work, without even knowing how things are going to work. And complaining because they're not making the game exactly to how you want them to.
And once again, I'm forced to remind everyone to debate the topic, not the person posting. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on these forums, as long as they abide by the forum rules. So stop complaining about 'complaining'. :roll:
Noted and fair enough, it does get old when the same handful though seem to be complaining for the sake of it, with zero hands on experience to how things are actually going to work.
Neither do you have any of this so called "hands on experience". All your rebutals or defense boils down to complaining about person who points out to how game was and where its heading now. Which brings nothing to the discussion at hand except as you called it strawmen comments.

I do sincerely hope Egosoft wont suddenly dive into dlc ocean. That is one thing I won't stand for... I loved the part about Egosoft where their patches were meaningful. And their Xpacks like TC and AP were major rehauls not some hula doll in cockpit.

I've yet to hear any good reasons to defend one ship approach with exception being story driven insensitive. Ego hasn't been all that amazing at making good stories lol... The striking similarities between the little we know/seen are too much like a mix of X:BtF which most either never played or never touched once multi-ship design came and X2...with people and stuff. Both things were for me the least interesting/memorable parts. X2 would have been better if it never had those cut-scenes lol. And if I started with anything other then X:BtF I wouldn't have abandoned game and never tried it for so many years until by pure chance and too much boredom I was semi-forced into it again.
You're right, I don't. which is why I'm waiting to actually play the game before stating how everything is going to work, or not work for that matter.

The one ship thing, (and really it isn't when you take into account being able to take over drones yourself, and also land on cap ships and influence what's going on with them among other things) doesn't really bother me to begin with to be quite honest. I've played and loved enough games in the Space sim genre from Wingcommander to Freelancer, and everything else in between, that it's really not make or break for me.

If the game is fun that's what's important to me, not to say there's anything wrong with having more than one flyable craft, more options are always a good thing.

For me this is one of my favorite genres, right up there with Battletech/Mechwarrior titles and we've gotten so few entries in it over the past decade or so, that I'm willing to support Ego for continuing to produce titles in a genre I really enjoy. Much like I was more than happy to back Starcitizen and the Elite kickstarter.

outlawgb
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri, 13. Feb 04, 17:01
x3tc

Post by outlawgb » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 04:04

i like the one ship idea myself :)

User avatar
Mauzi!
Posts: 2151
Joined: Wed, 28. Jul 04, 21:17
x3ap

Post by Mauzi! » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 04:06

outlawgb wrote:i like the one ship idea myself :)
Oh no, wtf, how dare you ! Wait... me too... :D

hisazul
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat, 15. Oct 11, 04:12
xr

Post by hisazul » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 04:21

SpectralThundr wrote: You're right, I don't. which is why I'm waiting to actually play the game before stating how everything is going to work, or not work for that matter.

The one ship thing, (and really it isn't when you take into account being able to take over drones yourself, and also land on cap ships and influence what's going on with them among other things) doesn't really bother me to begin with to be quite honest. I've played and loved enough games in the Space sim genre from Wingcommander to Freelancer, and everything else in between, that it's really not make or break for me.

If the game is fun that's what's important to me, not to say there's anything wrong with having more than one flyable craft, more options are always a good thing.

For me this is one of my favorite genres, right up there with Battletech/Mechwarrior titles and we've gotten so few entries in it over the past decade or so, that I'm willing to support Ego for continuing to produce titles in a genre I really enjoy. Much like I was more than happy to back Starcitizen and the Elite kickstarter.
But that is the thing, we do know how it feels to have one amazing ship(which is still debatable at this point in regards to Rebirth) We have had hyperion to entertain us for a few years now. It was versatile, durable, it was a true corvet and yet maintained slim body and it could dock 2 fighters. On top of all that is was FAR from a slow ship.
So what? People got tired of it. People used kestrels to fly about exploring, people used different ships for more dog-fightish experience and I'm sure I'm not the only one who loved playing with big unwieldy capital ships. Some liked being a trader and never bothered with ships that couldn't transport enough stuff to matter.

The point is we are very well aware how it feels to have 1 ship. And considering how big of a topic it is... there is a large portion of people that were NOT fond of having no options to pick from.

What can/will drones replace is irrelevant. How overpowered/underpowered the ship will be is once again irrelevant... what people want is variety and choice we have had for more then 10 years now. When we get bored of a ship... we use a different one.

Skunk can be most overpowered and superfast ship in the game and it will not change the fact that its the same ship you are forced into using no matter your preferences. I adored boron as eye candy and since TC I used almost exclusively terran ships simply because I felt it was terrans vs. everybloodyelse. I get no choice now... I personally couldn't care less for cockpit... as far as I'm concerned at best it just blocks my view and at worst...well we arent talking about cockpits. Lets just say I care nothing for them and leave it at that. What I do care about is that I'm stuck with ship that I wouldn't normally fly, given a choice.
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.” - Albert Einstein

User avatar
Sam L.R. Griffiths
Posts: 10522
Joined: Fri, 12. Mar 04, 19:47
x4

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 04:25

Arraamis wrote:I believe the objections are very valid and can be summarized very simply: The X-series has been a MULTI-SHIP game since the beginning
Sorry but wrong, X-BTF???

While I do empathise with those miffed by the restriction of only piloting the Skunk it does not necessarily mean the game is going to be bad with the restriction.

But all of this (and more) has been said many times over already. We only have a few more days to find out the real truth of the matter.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

hisazul
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat, 15. Oct 11, 04:12
xr

Post by hisazul » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 04:28

Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Arraamis wrote:I believe the objections are very valid and can be summarized very simply: The X-series has been a MULTI-SHIP game since the beginning
Sorry but wrong, X-BTF???

While I do empathise with those miffed by the restriction of only piloting the Skunk it does not necessarily mean the game is going to be bad with the restriction.

But all of this (and more) has been said many times over already. We only have a few more days to find out the real truth of the matter.
I'm paranoid because X:BtF was the reason why I avoided X in future for 2 titles! Even after finding my way back and loving series ever since that is one and only installment of X that I just couldn't even be bothered to finish or play for more then few hours.

On a different note... Pretty sure Reunion ironically was released around this time too! Conspiracy!
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.” - Albert Einstein

User avatar
Santi
Moderator (DevNet)
Moderator (DevNet)
Posts: 4046
Joined: Tue, 13. Feb 07, 21:06
x4

Post by Santi » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 04:40

I welcome the one ship because it will bring much needed balance to the game. As satisfying as it was to bring a bigger ship or fleet to complete a mission that you previously failed, it just took the challenge away. I really hope Egosoft will think long and hard before adding more flyable ships to the game.
A por ellos que son pocos y cobardes

leecarter
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat, 9. Sep 06, 22:35
x3tc

Post by leecarter » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 04:44

If you like the idea of only being able to fly one ship, wouldn't it still be better to have the option to fly others? You can always just choose to only fly one, even though I would bet a collector's edition you wouldn't.

Anyway, Bernd already stated that flying other ships was moddable* so even though I personally don't care for the one ship restriction, my guess is we'll all be flying whatever ships we want within a month or so. So if you're like me and bummed about their decision to only have one ship, at least be thankful for their decision to be mod friendly.


* Interview was posted here a few days ago, to lazy to go digging for it.

A5PECT
Posts: 6078
Joined: Sun, 3. Sep 06, 02:31
x4

Post by A5PECT » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 04:44

santi wrote:I welcome the one ship because it will bring much needed balance to the game. As satisfying as it was to bring a bigger ship or fleet to complete a mission that you previously failed, it just took the challenge away. I really hope Egosoft will think long and hard before adding more flyable ships to the game.
I don't believe for a second that having a single playable ship is the only way to balance a game.

I will admit it makes the task much easier for the developers, but if they had the time and resources to create and balance other flyable ships they would.

Which is pretty much why they're releasing the game now. They need more time and resources so they can continue to iterate the series.

User avatar
Chobittsu
Posts: 2210
Joined: Wed, 14. Apr 10, 21:12
x4

Post by Chobittsu » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 04:46

They probably won't add every ship to your flyable inventory, instead they may release DLC that gives you optional other craft of similar size and role to the Albion Skunk, but with unique upgrades compared to the versions flown by the computer

A5PECT
Posts: 6078
Joined: Sun, 3. Sep 06, 02:31
x4

Post by A5PECT » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 04:49

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the itinerary between BTF to X2 was as follows:

BTF: One flyable ship.

X-Tension: Several flyable ships.

X2: Many if not all flyable ships.

My guess is Rebirth will follow a similar trajectory, perhaps even at an accelerated rate by jumping straight into a sequel without an expansion in between (given the rather promising sales numbers thus far), or move to the X-Tension phase via a free patch rather than a paid expansion.

User avatar
ishmaeltheforsaken
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun, 15. Oct 06, 17:37
x4

Post by ishmaeltheforsaken » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 04:52

A5PECT wrote:My guess is Rebirth will follow a similar trajectory, perhaps even at an accelerated rate by jumping straight into a sequel without an expansion in between (given the rather promising sales numbers thus far), or move to the X-Tension phase via a free patch rather than a paid expansion.
They've said they want to release paid dlc/expansions for Rebirth, in addition to free patches. Which I welcome, I like getting a couple years out of a game before moving on to the sequel.

CutterJohn1
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat, 27. Jun 09, 23:21
x3tc

Post by CutterJohn1 » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 05:10

jasonbarron wrote:I disagree with the premise of this discussion. In XR, we have a number of drones that we can can fly, directly controlling them in the first person via the VR goggles--multiple ship purists love to shoot this concept down stating that drones aren’t really “ships” because we are not really inside them--well, the last time I checked, I’ve always controlled my ships from previous X games via a VR module I like to refer to as my “PC & Monitor”.
So wanting to be inside something and experience it firsthand is irrelevant.
Plus, I’ll take a cool, personalized, Millenium Falcon-esque ship with an ass kicking cockpit and interior any day of the week over the offerings from past games...
Except when it isn't?

Wanting to be physically onboard that other ship, with your fates intertwined, and reload screen threatening if you mess up, is every bit as valid as wanting to be onboard the skunk.

Would you be happy controlling the skunk purely from an abstracted perspective? If now, why would you suggest people be happy with the drones?
santi wrote:I welcome the one ship because it will bring much needed balance to the game. As satisfying as it was to bring a bigger ship or fleet to complete a mission that you previously failed, it just took the challenge away. I really hope Egosoft will think long and hard before adding more flyable ships to the game.
Rather irrelevant, though. This is a game where you can bring many ships along with you, so they already must balance the game according to a fairly wide variation in player power.

Unless they rather arbitrarily prevent you from bringing along any wingmen, any ability to balance the game based on knowing exactly what ship the player is flying is lost completely.

So basically, we have three alternatives.

1) The game is balanced based on the skunk alone. Then balance is already shot because fleets.

2) The game has variable balance based on the players combined military might. Then it doesn't matter what ship the player is in, they've already had to account for it.

3) The game is balanced based on the skunk alone, and you can't bring your fleet along. Then.. well that would just suck. What is the point of a fleet if you can't bring it with you?
Last edited by CutterJohn1 on Wed, 13. Nov 13, 05:21, edited 2 times in total.

A5PECT
Posts: 6078
Joined: Sun, 3. Sep 06, 02:31
x4

Post by A5PECT » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 05:15

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote:
A5PECT wrote:My guess is Rebirth will follow a similar trajectory, perhaps even at an accelerated rate by jumping straight into a sequel without an expansion in between (given the rather promising sales numbers thus far), or move to the X-Tension phase via a free patch rather than a paid expansion.
They've said they want to release paid dlc/expansions for Rebirth, in addition to free patches. Which I welcome, I like getting a couple years out of a game before moving on to the sequel.
I'm aware of this. I'm wondering how exactly content additions will be packaged: which features go into patches, which features go into paid expansions, and which features go into full-blown sequels.

My thinking is adding multiple ships (of any number) as part of a free patch would do worlds of good for Egosoft's customer loyalty. But if that's not possible I'm personally fine with it being in an expansion or sequel.

User avatar
Santi
Moderator (DevNet)
Moderator (DevNet)
Posts: 4046
Joined: Tue, 13. Feb 07, 21:06
x4

Post by Santi » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 05:20

Balance was shot because the player was a thousand times better in any ship that the AI, that was the reason. In Rebirth you only have the Skunk to make a difference, so 2 cap ship against 2 cap ships and the skunk, you probably win, 3 cap ships against 2 cap ships and the skunk, you are going to struggle. In X3 4 cap ships against 1 cap ship and you in a kestrel, you win, all the time, everytime.
A por ellos que son pocos y cobardes

CutterJohn1
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat, 27. Jun 09, 23:21
x3tc

Post by CutterJohn1 » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 05:35

santi wrote:Balance was shot because the player was a thousand times better in any ship that the AI, that was the reason. In Rebirth you only have the Skunk to make a difference, so 2 cap ship against 2 cap ships and the skunk, you probably win, 3 cap ships against 2 cap ships and the skunk, you are going to struggle. In X3 4 cap ships against 1 cap ship and you in a kestrel, you win, all the time, everytime.
Yes, the AI was completely confused by the player superpowers. Strafe, which NPCs simply could not do. Dodging, which they did only by accident. Finding blind spots, which they never did. Staying out of range of guns and shooting missiles(missiles, on the whole were really something only the player used regardless).

There were a variety of very fundamental issues with the combat model and AI in general that allowed the player to basically negate the threat of any NPC ship and easily kill them. Hopefully XR fixed those.


It wasn't helped that their player death scenario was quite punitive(game over). If the system encompassed an eject and try again with a new ship mechanism, they could have more safely raised the competence of the AI.

I believe this last is addressed in XR with the turbo. You seem to be one of the fastest ships in the game with the turbo. This will enable them to enable the player to lose without dying by being able to run effectively.

hisazul
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat, 15. Oct 11, 04:12
xr

Post by hisazul » Wed, 13. Nov 13, 05:38

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote:
A5PECT wrote:My guess is Rebirth will follow a similar trajectory, perhaps even at an accelerated rate by jumping straight into a sequel without an expansion in between (given the rather promising sales numbers thus far), or move to the X-Tension phase via a free patch rather than a paid expansion.
They've said they want to release paid dlc/expansions for Rebirth, in addition to free patches. Which I welcome, I like getting a couple years out of a game before moving on to the sequel.
Waaaait. They officially confimed going dlc route? Well... now I have an actual reason to worry.

/sigh

Tempted to rant... but I won't be subjective or kind in that regard. Suffice to say if they do... I may loose my last bastion of hope >_>
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.” - Albert Einstein

Post Reply

Return to “X Rebirth Universe”