9 in 10 people who bought XR have stopped playing

[Praetorian]

And repeating the exact same text in bigger form makes it so much more clear.

You asked what? I thought you misheard and typed it louder.

Oh sorry, didn't know that typing it bigger also makes it louder. My bad

My previous statement of

but some people definatly are putting fingers in their ears going LALALALALA X REBIRTH IS AWESOME CANT HEAR YOU!

immediatly springs to mind...

EDIT: you, FinWiz, still didnt reply to the initial question. Could it be that it drilled holes in your defense of the "economy" <finger quotation marks>?

[FinWiz]

And repeating the exact same text in bigger form makes it so much more clear.

You asked what? I thought you misheard and typed it louder.

Oh sorry, didn't know that typing it bigger also makes it louder. My bad

My previous statement of

but some people definatly are putting fingers in their ears going LALALALALA X REBIRTH IS AWESOME CANT HEAR YOU!

immediatly springs to mind...

EDIT: you, FinWiz, still didnt reply to the initial question. Could it be that it drilled holes in your defense of the "economy" <finger quotation marks>?

I didn't answer to the question because because I'm still not sure what he was asking and how did it relate to my first post

EDIT: I would still like links to somewhere where someone said that X rebirth is flawless

[Iosyn]

I'd try metacritic. That's probably the best bet.
I saw some 10/10 user reviews there.

[Graaf]

Don't know if this has been posted, but there's been a severe drop-off in sales after the first week.
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/52871/x-rebirth/Global/

Global First Ten Weeks (Units)
Week Ending Week Weekly Change Total
16th November 2013 1 47,653 N/A 47,653

23rd November 2013 2 7,885 -83.5% 55,538


A drop of -83.5% in only one week with total sales stuck @55,538 units since week #2.

I think the data needs to be updated though -- Since this is pretty grim.

The drop in sales figures is quite scary. Sales are usually strongest in the first week or two, but to have sales fall off a cliff from Week 1 to Week 2 would of been quite worrying for Egosoft. I think when Egosoft declared this game a success in Week 1 they were expecting sales to gently slope downwards and hence continue providing a relatively stable source of revenue in the coming months, but looks like what's happened is someone has turned off the tap after Week 1.

I wonder if weekly sales are now down in the triple digits...

I think the biggest reason for the sales to flatline is due to Steam listing the metacritic score.
Yes it makes it easier for Steam to deny all refunds for sales after that score was added but it also puts some nails in Rebirth's coffin that weren't needed. No telling if they will remove the score after Egosoft managed to fix Rebirth...if possible.

[Praetorian]

EDIT: you, FinWiz, still didnt reply to the initial question. Could it be that it drilled holes in your defense of the "economy" <finger quotation marks>?

I didn't answer to the question because because I'm still not sure what he was asking and how did it relate to my first post

EDIT: I would still like links to somewhere where someone said that X rebirth is flawless

Wow really? Im Danish and i understood perfectly well what he was saying/asking.

I will try to clarify it then.

Then tell me, how do NPCs buy small ships, what are their material requirements and how do you control if the economy of that item is working correctly, or working at all, or that this small freighters simply appear out of nowhere?

- How does the NPC entities "buy" (aquire) small ships (freighters/fighters).
- What are the material requirements to build said ships.
- How do you know that the "economy" is actually functioning (at all) in the case of said material requirements. In other words, do shipyards need materials at all to construct (spawn) NPC ships such as the above.
- Or do these small freighters simply appear out of nowhere (aka spawned by scripts).

Thats how i understood it anyway and im eagerly awaiting your much valued reply to this.

And yeah just check metacritic. People were giving it 10/10 with comments such as this from Vythica (wall of text incoming, but you asked for it)

"I guess only playing a few hours is not enough for a full review. Everything you were worried about? Well stop!

If you were worried it has broken away from the true "X Experience" (Like me) You will be glad to know all is still there Much more. Egosoft have definitely listened to their fans. The world is extremely alive, combat is fun, ship control is spot on and the ambiance/sound/visuals are great. I will not go into much other then that has lived up to all expectations and more. Things that annoyed you in past X games are gone, traveling is fun...exploring is fun plenty of stuff that veterans will enjoy. It will be one those 100 hour games, where you will be sidetracked by quite a few side missions....

From worrying it would be the worst in the series....it so far is the best. Surprisingly. Skyrim Meets X3 (Without Fps combat obviously)"

EDIT: im starting to think that the above metacritic post was a joke/troll.

[Lyth]

I think the biggest reason for the sales to flatline is due to Steam listing the metacritic score.
Yes it makes it easier for Steam to deny all refunds for sales after that score was added but it also puts some nails in Rebirth's coffin that weren't needed. No telling if they will remove the score after Egosoft managed to fix Rebirth...if possible.

Even if they removed the metacritic score which only helps people make a more informed choice, the wall to wall "do not recommend" tags and every single review would still be there.

The game tanked because it is just really, really bad.

[Gupster]

I stopped playing Rebirth 2 days after it was released, i just fire it up now to try the latest patches which so far have done nothing to improve performance on my rig at all.

[CptJackSparrow]

Speaking as a scientifically literate person, one would also have to see a "control" - that is, what are the figures on any other game?

By which I mean that even the best game in the world would probably have a fairly rapid drop-off (because most people have little patience, and it takes time to get to know a game to the point where you understand how to get the best out of it, especially for simulators).

Seriously? Well if it helps egosoft sleep better at night, keep telling yourselves that.

[pr0nflakes]

Speaking as a scientifically literate person, one would also have to see a "control" - that is, what are the figures on any other game?

By which I mean that even the best game in the world would probably have a fairly rapid drop-off (because most people have little patience, and it takes time to get to know a game to the point where you understand how to get the best out of it, especially for simulators).

Seriously? Well if it helps egosoft sleep better at night, keep telling yourselves that.

He only Mods the forums, If you're gunna fling shit need to make sure it will stick.

[Lyth]

I stopped playing Rebirth 2 days after it was released, i just fire it up now to try the latest patches which so far have done nothing to improve performance on my rig at all.

I completed the campaign, 52 hours of my life I will never get back, would rather have smoked 2000 cigs back to back and had a pulmonary or prolapse which still would have been less stressful and painful than playing X Rebirth. My happiest moment was when I uninstalled it.

I actually trapped one of my testicles at one point whilst grabbing my keyboard and it was a measure of relief compared to playing the game, how anyone could enjoy spending a full quarter of their game time traveling through space highways and say it is exciting is beyond me.

Speaking as a scientifically literate person, one would also have to see a "control" - that is, what are the figures on any other game?

By which I mean that even the best game in the world would probably have a fairly rapid drop-off (because most people have little patience, and it takes time to get to know a game to the point where you understand how to get the best out of it, especially for simulators).

Seriously? Well if it helps egosoft sleep better at night, keep telling yourselves that.

I'm actually pretty sure Usenko does sleep well at night because he is a good person. Hate the game by all means but please don't look for people to hate, especially people that are here to help.

[FinWiz]

EDIT: you, FinWiz, still didnt reply to the initial question. Could it be that it drilled holes in your defense of the "economy" <finger quotation marks>?

I didn't answer to the question because because I'm still not sure what he was asking and how did it relate to my first post

EDIT: I would still like links to somewhere where someone said that X rebirth is flawless

Wow really? Im Danish and i understood perfectly well what he was saying/asking.

I will try to clarify it then.

Then tell me, how do NPCs buy small ships, what are their material requirements and how do you control if the economy of that item is working correctly, or working at all, or that this small freighters simply appear out of nowhere?

- How does the NPC entities "buy" (aquire) small ships (freighters/fighters).
- What are the material requirements to build said ships.
- How do you know that the "economy" is actually functioning (at all) in the case of said material requirements. In other words, do shipyards need materials at all to construct (spawn) NPC ships such as the above.
- Or do these small freighters simply appear out of nowhere (aka spawned by scripts).

Thats how i understood it anyway and im eagerly awaiting your much valued reply to this.

And yeah just check metacritic. People were giving it 10/10 with comments such as this from Vythica (wall of text incoming, but you asked for it)

"I guess only playing a few hours is not enough for a full review. Everything you were worried about? Well stop!

If you were worried it has broken away from the true "X Experience" (Like me) You will be glad to know all is still there Much more. Egosoft have definitely listened to their fans. The world is extremely alive, combat is fun, ship control is spot on and the ambiance/sound/visuals are great. I will not go into much other then that has lived up to all expectations and more. Things that annoyed you in past X games are gone, traveling is fun...exploring is fun plenty of stuff that veterans will enjoy. It will be one those 100 hour games, where you will be sidetracked by quite a few side missions....

From worrying it would be the worst in the series....it so far is the best. Surprisingly. Skyrim Meets X3 (Without Fps combat obviously)"

EDIT: im starting to think that the above metacritic post was a joke/troll.

There is also lot's of people voting 0 and just saying that the did so due to the 10/10. Works both ways.

Thanks for clarifying economy of item for me, that's one was confusing me. Were also wondering whether he was trying to say these freighters or this freighter's. However, real problem was not that he's post would have been so unclear that I didn't get the idea behind it but that it still doesn't relate to what I said. I didn't say that NPCs buy ships or have to provide materials for it. You don't need to provide those materials either. What I did say was that shipyards still need those materials to build NPC ships whether they are being ordered or not. To get those materials, they need uncompromised economy so that NPCs can trade those materials for shipyards. I do not know how built ship are assigned for NPC factions but the way I have understood it, they certainly are not spawned by script. It has already been stated though that orders are generated by engine and last time I checked, there wasn't disagreement on that.

As for the small ships that player is unable to build at the moment, there are still shipyards specialized on these ships. Those just don't have NPC for player to interact with.

And because I know you wanna know, I didn't just come up with this. I had an answer for him but wasn't sure what he was trying to ask or how it was related and it was 02:00 AM so I though it would be easier to just ask "what?".

[Lyth]

Some people really do think the game is full of the same depth of all the other games, It's all the combat style only players though,who used to do everything for themselves anyway, so I doubt there personal game style has had to changed at all. They wanted a much easier game because the old one's were too hard for them and they wanted an economy they didn't have to manage and they got it. Egosoft listened to them alright.

[Usenko]

Thanks guys! And for the record - I'm not an Egosoft employee. I'm an Australian high school teacher who thinks Egosoft forum is a wonderful place to waste hours and hours. Especially off-topic.

[Praetorian]

There is also lot's of people voting 0 and just saying that the did so due to the 10/10. Works both ways.

Quite true. But you said you hadnt seen anyone saying that the game was awesome. I simply pointed out there had indeed been such disturbed people writing just that.

Thanks for clarifying economy of item for me, that's one was confusing me. Were also wondering whether he was trying to say these freighters or this freighter's. However, real problem was not that he's post would have been so unclear that I didn't get the idea behind it but that it still doesn't relate to what I said. I didn't say that NPCs buy ships or have to provide materials for it. You don't need to provide those materials either. What I did say was that shipyards still need those materials to build NPC ships whether they are being ordered or not. To get those materials, they need uncompromised economy so that NPCs can trade those materials for shipyards. I do not know how built ship are assigned for NPC factions but the way I have understood it, they certainly are not spawned by script. It has already been stated though that orders are generated by engine and last time I checked, there wasn't disagreement on that.

Glad i could help. Ive also done some digging into the "economy" of the game.

Im fairly sure the following statemens are still true:

1. Only the player needs money to buy/sell stuff. So supply/demand values have no impact except for the players economy.
2. The shipyards uses the products to build ships. It will build ships even if there is no demand. (move.die order which just move the ship out of sight, then make it disapear)
3. There is apparantly little demand to build ships as there are few ships dying. The shipyards however dont care. There is no money being "wasted" because NPC Corporations dont "buy" their ships.

If im wrong about the 3 above things, disregard the below text

So my argument that this is not a "real economy" is that it at best sounds like a plan economy which has been proven to not work (soviet union factories producing things that werent needed, a perfect example would be a tractor factory producing tractors that simply got to rust away as noone needed them - Egosofts equivalent would be move.die orders). I wonder why the economy seems to grind to a halt in X Rebirth

Also, the fact that only the player needs money to buy things means that even if you blow up half the universe, they dont care. You on the other hand care if the economy grinds to a halt because it directly affects your wallet.

[FinWiz]

There is also lot's of people voting 0 and just saying that the did so due to the 10/10. Works both ways.

Quite true. But you said you hadnt seen anyone saying that the game was awesome. I simply pointed out there had indeed been such disturbed people writing just that.

Thanks for clarifying economy of item for me, that's one was confusing me. Were also wondering whether he was trying to say these freighters or this freighter's. However, real problem was not that he's post would have been so unclear that I didn't get the idea behind it but that it still doesn't relate to what I said. I didn't say that NPCs buy ships or have to provide materials for it. You don't need to provide those materials either. What I did say was that shipyards still need those materials to build NPC ships whether they are being ordered or not. To get those materials, they need uncompromised economy so that NPCs can trade those materials for shipyards. I do not know how built ship are assigned for NPC factions but the way I have understood it, they certainly are not spawned by script. It has already been stated though that orders are generated by engine and last time I checked, there wasn't disagreement on that.

Glad i could help. Ive also done some digging into the "economy" of the game.

Im fairly sure the following statemens are still true:

1. Only the player needs money to buy/sell stuff. So supply/demand values have no impact except for the players economy.
2. The shipyards uses the products to build ships. It will build ships even if there is no demand. (move.die order which just move the ship out of sight, then make it disapear)
3. There is apparantly little demand to build ships as there are few ships dying. The shipyards however dont care. There is no money being "wasted" because NPC Corporations dont "buy" their ships.

If im wrong about the 3 above things, disregard the below text

So my argument that this is not a "real economy" is that it at best sounds like a plan economy which has been proven to not work (soviet union factories producing things that werent needed, a perfect example would be a tractor factory producing tractors that simply got to rust away as noone needed them - Egosofts equivalent would be move.die orders). I wonder why the economy seems to grind to a halt in X Rebirth

Also, the fact that only the player needs money to buy things means that even if you blow up half the universe, they dont care. You on the other hand care if the economy grinds to a halt because it directly affects your wallet.

Actually the word I used was flawless, not awesome and there is pretty good reason why I picked that exact word. There is nothing wrong with someone saying that this game is awesome but you were implying that they are ignoring all the issues which is pretty much as saying that the game would be flawless

definatly are putting fingers in their ears going LALALALALA X REBIRTH IS AWESOME CANT HEAR YOU!

Haven't seen that happening.

So the basic problem we are arguing here is that does NPCs need money. After all the purpose of money is to give things a fixed value. So when NPC sells their products they are basicly doing charity but the thing is that computer doesn't suffer from same flaws as humans. You mentioned communism for example. It's actually a very nice idea but the reason it never worked is that humans are greedy and are always wanting more. Computers don't thing that way so giving products away is not an issue but being able to do so is. Your point about useless ships is correct (pretty much everything you said was pointed out in functional trader mod and isn't that hard to fix)but what you have to realize is that shipyards are the final part of economy. Everything else comes down to that and shipyards are the only kind of stations producting stuff that isn't needed in anything else. Except in trading to keep it running.

So in the end it's about overflow of ships, isn't it? In real life this would be a problem because effiency would be horrible if end products are made to dissappear but in this case there is infinite amount of energy cells to keep this running(like in previous X games?). It is however pretty linear so take out one part of that line and everything depending on that reacts. I would call that dynamic. How do they react? They can just build destroyed stations again because they have infinite amount of money, right? Well yes but without those resources they are lacking or can be made to lack, building that station won't get anywhere.

This is a very interesting conversation but unfortunately horribly of topic though. Have to ask, what's with your signature?
EDIT: that stock market you mentioned would be really nice and NPCs having money could make things a bit more simple. After all that's why money is used, to make things more simple.

[Praetorian]

Actually the word I used was flawless, not awesome and there is pretty good reason why I picked that exact word. There is nothing wrong with someone saying that this game is awesome but you were implying that they are ignoring all the issues which is pretty much as saying that the game would be flawless

Well i linked you someone saying the game was fantastic, that those worried had nothing to worry about and absolutely no mention of bugs/issues = "flawless" in my book. Anyway, its not really important. Its clear you are set in your mind to defend this game and im set in my mind to do the opposite so we pretty much read into texts what we want to read.

This is a very interesting conversation but unfortunately horribly of topic though.

Quite off topic. You can try to defend your point of view all day long but it still goes to show what was promised to us and what the majority of people do not feel was delivered.

Hence the sharp drop in sales and reputation wrecking reviews.

So anyway, as long as its a "plan economy" and the player is the only one who actually have money, its entirely make believe.

Let me put in another way. Why would you even try and interrupt the supply chain? It has no point, except hurt your own ability to function (unless you made an empire that produces all - at which point you pretty much "won" the game anyway). If it had a "real" economy, the game could potentially have you wipe Corporations out by ruining them financially (and new could spawn and take their place - hey maybe even introduce diplomacy! Sorry, getting carried along here ). Depth you know. But it has nothing and it delivers nothing. Its shallow. Make believe.

If you are satisfied with this thats great for you. For the majority of us complaining it just isnt enough and its just one of the many symptoms of a very ill patient if you ask me.

[CptJackSparrow]

I stopped playing Rebirth 2 days after it was released, i just fire it up now to try the latest patches which so far have done nothing to improve performance on my rig at all.

I completed the campaign, 52 hours of my life I will never get back, would rather have smoked 2000 cigs back to back and had a pulmonary or prolapse which still would have been less stressful and painful than playing X Rebirth. My happiest moment was when I uninstalled it.

I actually trapped one of my testicles at one point whilst grabbing my keyboard and it was a measure of relief compared to playing the game, how anyone could enjoy spending a full quarter of their game time traveling through space highways and say it is exciting is beyond me.

Speaking as a scientifically literate person, one would also have to see a "control" - that is, what are the figures on any other game?

By which I mean that even the best game in the world would probably have a fairly rapid drop-off (because most people have little patience, and it takes time to get to know a game to the point where you understand how to get the best out of it, especially for simulators).

Seriously? Well if it helps egosoft sleep better at night, keep telling yourselves that.

I'm actually pretty sure Usenko does sleep well at night because he is a good person. Hate the game by all means but please don't look for people to hate, especially people that are here to help.

i did not say "yourself" i said "egosoft" Usenkos post is company scripted.

[FinWiz]

Just wanting to point out that I only defend the games that I think reveive unneccesery amounts of hate or/and critizism. I don't bother defending games like ME, Battlefield and so on but I did defend Planetside 2, very good game but had all kinds of problems on it's own.

This is off topic because thread was about players have stopped playing.

You did pretty good job turning a discussion about whether you can affect the economy or not into a argument about issues and how things could have been done differently. Point at which it's obvious that one can't disagreed with proper arguments.

In my original post I took stance on you saying:
"So all in all we're all finding out its just a shallow excuse for a X game. The 4 cornerstones being touted in the release post are either non existant or severely limited."
You can trade
You can fight
You can build
You can think
Whether you like the way it's done or not is beyond me and up to you. One trades to make money and others because they want to make difference. I won't overshadow any on topic conversation any further.

For a topic, those steamcharts won't show amount of players waiting for the game to be fixed. Doesn't change the fact that drop-off is horrible but has to be remembered.

[Graaf]

i did not say "yourself" i said "egosoft" Usenkos post is company scripted.

You don't get the point.
Usenko =/= Egosoft.

Usenko is just a voluntary moderator on this forum and there are also several other moderators getting flamed for Rebirths bad launch. Nothing they, as forum moderators, have any part in.

Stop doing it.

Now, if someone is posting as "Bernd" or "Developer" then I call them fair game.

[Commonsens]

Bottom line is this a product who has been pushed out before it was completed and checked correctly, as any product should, in order to profit of the holidays. In plain: an uncompleted and watered down beta labelled as "final release".

This sub standard product has tempted to stretch the boundaries of the acceptable because of the current regulations on software who basically protect the industry (no refund). This won't do. Customers (even if you want to tone it down by calling them gamers) has the right to have what they paid for and the producer the obligation to deliver what was advertised.

After 5 patches (as the 6th 1.19c cannot be considered as such as it is not publicly available to all and is called beta) the product is still NOT functioning and the game, even after patch, does not have the advertised features he was sold under, which is a breach (a steal) and should be treated as such.

As proof: customers stopped to enjoy or use the product they bought as it is SO watered down and badly built (read uncompleted) that ii simply do not work!

This will lead many customers to make pressure on the political body to have changes made on software laws, bounding the software industry to follow the same standards and repercussion as any other products (aka: force them to refunds their customers) and force the gaming industry to return to a "quality before release" philosophy. (imaging if your food or meds be produced and sold the same way as this game: will you eat it?)

Selling this software (or anything else) is such state is an abnormality; doesn't matter that it happen so much in this industry, its NOT because it happen so much now that it should be normality! Luckly, Star Citizen will show how a game should be delivered, customers will learn what normality is or should be and in the end, Dev like Egosoft will have to stop their current practices and thrive for quality before release....or go bankrupt.


@Pretorian: you are absolutely right and beside, Egosoft has LOST all rights to complain about anything OR ask anything... until their product works correctly and has ALL the features THEY advertised that product under in order to get the customers money are present.