UK Gov -- Fix Your Games it's the LAW (Consumer rights change in the UK 2014)

[pjvenkman]

Just come across this video on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzrEokps6BI

Very interesting.

[Nanook]

Nothing specifically about Rebirth here. So over it goes to Off-Topic.

[pjvenkman]

Actually there is since the game is one of the buggiest, broken pieces of garbage ever made. The post is very relevant to Rebirth. Especially to those who are still trying to get refunds.

But your moving the post is the typical Egosoft moderator and company response of stick your heads in the sand and pretend the problems aren't happening.

[Samuel Creshal]

Whine, whine, I bought a game from a company known to release buggy games, without informing myself first, and never saw it coming, I have to SUE SOMEONE!!1

I don't think that would be on topic anywhere.

[pjvenkman]

Whine, whine, I bought a game from a company known to release buggy games, without informing myself first, and never saw it coming, I have to SUE SOMEONE!!1

I don't think that would be on topic anywhere.

I bought the game, yes, but I didn't sue. I just removed it from my hard drive when I found out how badly written it was. However, I do realise that there are others who are very angry at the way they've been treated by Egosoft and Steam, so I thought I'd post this here for them to watch it. Who knows, it might actually give them something to aim for if the game still isn't fixed when the laws come into effect. It would be rather helpful if brainless morons like yourself wouldn't assume that everyone who posts something negative about Rebirth is an uneducated child who's only response to a bad game is to come onto the forums and complain and cry like someone stole their lollipop.

A quick Google search for X-Rebirth reviews will clearly demonstrate that the game is massively flawed and not fit for purpose. There's even a huge list of reviews on both the Steam forums and here that shows that the vast majority found the game to be pretty bad. Many people bought the game in good faith expecting it to be good. Yes, the X games have always been buggy from the outset, but none of the previous games has ever had this level of complete failure written all over it. I recent read a book called Level Up - The Guide to Great Video Game Design, by Scott Rogers, and I have to wonder whether Egosoft have ever read it, because everything the writer tells you not to do when developing a game is exactly what Egosoft have done with X-Rebirth (I'm actually considering sending them a copy for next Christmas, if the company is still in business by then, I think they could really benefit from it)

Now if people like you want to waste their money on garbage, then by all means feel free. If you want to buy and play the game, fine. I hope you enjoy it. It's no skin of my nose.

Now please, and this goes for others, feel free to insult me some more. All it will do is show your lack of intelligence, your inability to formulate a coherent argument and your disregard for any opinions that do not correspond with your own narrow minded view of reality. But don't let that stop you.

[Alee Enn]

But your moving the post is the typical Egosoft moderator and company response of stick your heads in the sand and pretend the problems aren't happening.

... brainless morons like yourself ... uneducated child who's only response to a bad game is to come onto the forums and complain and cry like someone stole their lollipop.

... Now if people like you want to waste their money on garbage

Now please, and this goes for others, feel free to insult me some more. All it will do is show your lack of intelligence, your inability to formulate a coherent argument and your disregard for any opinions that do not correspond with your own narrow minded view of reality. But don't let that stop you.

Oh dear ... I think I know where this is heading (south).

[RegisterMe]

Yep. Criticise the game all you like, insult other people though and there will be only one result.

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Whine, whine, I bought a game from a company known to release buggy games, without informing myself first

this^^^^

Same applies to people who whine about "false promises".
You had to browse the official forums 24/7 for at least half year, as I did.
There were no false promises, when I launched X Rebirth for the first time, NOTHING surprised me. Well, except for surprisingly good FPS (my PC is rather old).

Well, except for one false promise: Bernd said during one interview, that you cannot walk to captain and give him orders.
You actually can do this. 90% of my playtime is spent aboard my Rahanas, giving orders to captain and accepting trades from the trade screen.

[Samuel Creshal]

Now if people like you want to waste their money on garbage

I love it how guys like you always assume I bought the game. What makes you think so?

[YorrickVander]

The majority that own XR atm I think bought on preorder, so statutory rights probably wouldn't apply even if the EULA *you* agreed to by running the software didn't void such rights anyway. To quote, once again, Mickey from Snatch - "Tell ya what you bought it how you saw it, so **** off while you still have legs to carry you'

M$ would be bankrupt if users could sue over unfinished buggy software

[Nanook]

....
But your moving the post is the typical Egosoft moderator and company response of stick your heads in the sand and pretend the problems aren't happening.

You get one, and only one, warning about discussing moderator actions in the open forum. Read the forum rules. Do it again and there will be consequences.

[Chips]

Actually there is since the game is one of the buggiest, broken pieces of garbage ever made. The post is very relevant to Rebirth. Especially to those who are still trying to get refunds.

But your moving the post is the typical Egosoft moderator and company response of stick your heads in the sand and pretend the problems aren't happening.

It isn't specific to rebirth is it. No.

It is supposedly applicable to downloadable media of any variety, but not specific to rebirth. So it is off topic by definition And moving it doesn't imply sticking heads in sand either - but please, feel free to over exaggerate.

You're basically saying that the change in law will enable people to get refunds for digital media. Egosoft (from what I read) gave refunds willingly (to those who bought from the shop). Your issue with Steam's refunds is specific to Steam, not Egosoft.

So perhaps you'd actually be best off complaining there eh?

[silenced]

Well, if you buy a car you expect it to work. The same is true for software, and more and more for games. This had to come into play.

We'll see what happens. IF it goes live.

[stickocide]

I'm assuming what the fellow in the video there said was right, and it all seems fairly reasonable. That said, in the EU/UK I can't imagine Egosoft or Valve being able to deny you a refund currently if you are still unable to get satisfactory results from the game, due to show-stopping bugs and suchlike. The mere suggestion of taking it to a small claims court or equivalent should work.

Nothing specifically about Rebirth here. So over it goes to Off-Topic.

This seems very relevant to X Rebirth, really. Let me quote:

"[Changes to consumer protection] give you the power as a consumer to demand a full refund for digital content that is sub-standard".

If we look at the critical reaction to the release of X Rebirth, "sub-standard" seems a perfectly apt description of its quality, and as such I imagine that under this legislation a full refund for every customer who requested it would be deemed reasonable. I'm fairly sure it would be under current legislation, but this clarifies the point. The definition of "sub-standard" relates to whether:

"A reasonable person would deem it of satisfactory quality".

As we have seen from the comprehensive critical panning of X Rebirth on release, on the balance of things the game would very likely be deemed unsatisfactory.

This seems very much relevant to X Rebirth - had it been released in the UK with this small clarification of consumer law, there would likely have been even greater demands for refunds than there are already. I like to think developments like this should compel companies like Egosoft to be more honest about the state of a game on release. It should also encourage Valve to more transparently follow consumer regulation rather than toeing the line in the hope that people will give up on refunds they may well be perfectly entitled to.

Consumer rights are far better in the EU and UK than in the US. Whilst others here might be dismissive of people's complaints, saying a buggy release should have been expected if people did research, that information was not stated in advertising materials upon which a purchase contract is based. Egosoft were likely quite well aware of the game's state, so not informing a consumer about these issues may be seen as deliberately misleading them. Unfortunately for now this seems to be accepted by many consumers as a price to pay for faster development cycles or such, but this does not mean the law also accepts this. By law, the fault is at the level of the vendor or developer, not the consumer.

Can this be moved back to the X Rebirth forum? I can't really see why it was moved - it's a relevant topic to X Rebirth's release and current standing, and something I imagine people in the community would like to discuss very much - isn't that the whole purpose of the X Community forums?

[Chips]

This seems very relevant to X Rebirth, really. Let me quote:

No, it would be applicable to Rebirth if it both passes and Rebirth was released after that date.

Have you guys even listened to the whole video? The last 90 seconds seems to reveal that the reality may not really be that different.

[Alan Phipps]

Yes. I will move it back to the Rebirth forum from OT. Nanook was correct that the Initial Post was unrelated to X Rebirth, but the subsequent general discussion and expansion by the OP primarily mentions X Rebirth.

That makes it OT for OT - if that is possible - (and also underlines how inappropriate and incorrect the comments about moderation were).

[stickocide]

The topic remains relevant because it is related to X Rebirth in that we can have a discussion involving the two in a meaningful way. I would argue so much, at least.

Getting buried in semantics and precise meaning doesn't seem terribly helpful - if people can discuss a point within reason, it seems fair enough.

Yes, the reality may not be too different in the long run, but that doesn't mean it's not interesting and meaningful for the community to be able to discuss the matter, does it?

I'd certainly like to hear more people's thoughts on the matter.

EDIT: Oh, I'm sorry, and we not meant to discuss topic movements? Apologies if this is the case, I won't push the matter. It does seem a tad lacking in transparency, though - it's not like discussion harms anyone, and putting the thread in OT stifles it a bit, is all. Is there anywhere to discuss moderation matters openly, or is it limited to PMs with moderators? I would have thought that communities which are generally moderated less stringently and with more transparency and discussion would be nicer.

[Alan Phipps]

".. is it [discussion of moderation action] limited to PMs with moderators?" Yes it is, as clearly stated in the forum rules. It does not have to be to the originating or posting Moderator. If that process cannot resolve an issue to your satisfaction then PM a Site Admin about it.

Let's stay on topic now please.

[Graaf]

There were no false promises

While your co-pilot takes over the control of your ship, goggles come down from the ceiling and you dive into the remote control of the drone.

Can someone tell me if this has been fixed?

Better question: Does you co-pilot do anything?

[Cpt.Jericho]

I don't see why this thread was moved back on topic. I fail to see how this applies to a game released 2013.

Plus the major platform to buy it is in US - who "****" the EU.