UK Gov -- Fix Your Games it's the LAW (Consumer rights change in the UK 2014)

[Captain Lemmiwinks]

Hmmmm.....may not bode well for smaller developers and could well drive some good and exiting projects into the big greedy corporations.

I doubt this will effect X Rebirth as many from the UK had certain protections in place and have already had their refunds, while others like me have stayed with Rebirth knowing egosoft will first fix the game and then give us some extra content for the game as they often have in the past.

Some wrongly believe that if it is released in the USA then the company wont have to cough up a refund, however the UK has a double barrelled shotgun when applying legislation, We can use UK law and if not resolved, then go to the European courts, which as many know, can squeeze billions out of mighty corporations such as Google and Microsoft, if the don't obey laws set down anywhere in Europe.

The one saving grace for small developers like egosoft, is that they have a proven and enviable track record of fixing and repairing there product to a higher standard that was originally intended, and this new legislation will allow some flexibility within the law for this to be allowed, without affecting a consumers right to demand a refund from whoever supplied the product.

I think X Rebirth has demonstrated egosofts commitment to repairing the product and I also cannot see the new legislation being used retrospectively.

downside to this business model is by the time thier game is ready or of a reasonable standard its in the bargain bins for £4.99

maybe this hasnt dawned on them ?

[steelgrey75]

will a change to UK law force egosoft to put more effort into their product ?

depends on how much sales are done in the UK.

they will either increase development time to release an actual working game,
or
class the UK as disposable market

i think i know what will happen,simply going on previous actions by egosoft.

I very much would have thought that this becomes a standard across the EU not just the UK.

[Griever78]

Hmmmm.....may not bode well for smaller developers and could well drive some good and exiting projects into the big greedy corporations.

I doubt this will effect X Rebirth as many from the UK had certain protections in place and have already had their refunds, while others like me have stayed with Rebirth knowing egosoft will first fix the game and then give us some extra content for the game as they often have in the past.

Some wrongly believe that if it is released in the USA then the company wont have to cough up a refund, however the UK has a double barrelled shotgun when applying legislation, We can use UK law and if not resolved, then go to the European courts, which as many know, can squeeze billions out of mighty corporations such as Google and Microsoft, if the don't obey laws set down anywhere in Europe.

The one saving grace for small developers like egosoft, is that they have a proven and enviable track record of fixing and repairing there product to a higher standard that was originally intended, and this new legislation will allow some flexibility within the law for this to be allowed, without affecting a consumers right to demand a refund from whoever supplied the product.

I think X Rebirth has demonstrated egosofts commitment to repairing the product and I also cannot see the new legislation being used retrospectively.

downside to this business model is by the time thier game is ready or of a reasonable standard its in the bargain bins for £4.99

maybe this hasnt dawned on them ?

Except everyone that was planning on buying the game bought it at full price when it hit the streets. And if the price goes down, people who never planned on buying the game will give it a go, much as I have with the dozens of games I've bought on Steam for £5 that I never would have touched at full price.

Digital code sold with little to no reproduction costs is still profit.

[softweir]

The proposed law is unlikely to have any applicability to Rebirth.

Laws of this sort cannot be applied retrospectively, that is, they cannot apply to actions taken before a law is passed. A person can commit any offence against common decency right up until a law is passed that prohibits it - and s/he will be fine from then on just so long as they mend their behaviour. Sales of Rebirth made before such a law is passed will be exempt, it is only sales afterwards that will be affected.

Egosoft/Deepsilver/Steam will have to examine their ad copy and the state of the game if/when this law comes into force: if they continue to use old advertising copy and any promised features are still missing or broken then sales from then on could be in breach of that law. BUT: all they have to do is dump any non-working features and produce new ad copy that only lists features of the new, working version of the game. Might be a bit tough for existing players who suddenly have to lose their old saves and start afresh in the new, reduced X Universe, but if the law insists then the law insists.

In any case, the high probability is that Rebirth will be in a "significantly as advertised" state before there will be any chance of this or any similar law coming into force, and "significantly as advertised" will be all that will be necessary - laws tend to leave sellers some wiggle-room when it comes to matters like this.

[dzhedzho]

I don't see why this thread was moved back on topic. I fail to see how this applies to a game released 2013.

Plus the major platform to buy it is in US - who "****" the EU.

For EU Subscribers:

You agree that this Agreement shall be deemed to have been made and executed in the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg and that it is subject to the laws of Luxembourg, excluding the law of conflicts and the Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods (CISG). However, where the laws of Luxembourg provide a lower degree of consumer protection than the laws of your country of residence, the consumer protection laws of your country shall prevail. In any dispute arising under this Agreement, the prevailing party will be entitled to attorneys’ fees and expenses.

You were saying?

Also the release date is irrelevant, the purchase date is. So the law (if passed), will apply to all sales with later date...

[BigBANGtheory]

Also the release date is irrelevant, the purchase date is. So the law (if passed), will apply to all sales with later date...

Yes this is true, but you are already covered in the UK without this 'clarification to the Law', the Steam EULA cannot override UK Statute Law as it is considered a contract of lower importance.

The problem you have with Steam, is dealing with Steam and corresponding its much easier to work with a retailer. My advice... always buy the media / product from a retailer even if it is just a Steam key in a box.

[dzhedzho]

Also the release date is irrelevant, the purchase date is. So the law (if passed), will apply to all sales with later date...

Yes this is true, but you are already covered in the UK without this 'clarification to the Law', the Steam EULA cannot override UK Statute Law as it is considered a contract of lower importance.

The problem you have with Steam, is dealing with Steam and corresponding its much easier to work with a retailer. My advice... always buy the media / product from a retailer even if it is just a Steam key in a box.

No it cannot and the EULA itself states that, as quoted.
Usually quoting the relevant law, and their own EULA to steam reps, will give you a refund, without any issues.

[dzhedzho]

Some wrongly believe that if it is released in the USA then the company wont have to cough up a refund, however the UK has a double barrelled shotgun when applying legislation, We can use UK law and if not resolved, then go to the European courts, which as many know, can squeeze billions out of mighty corporations such as Google and Microsoft, if the don't obey laws set down anywhere in Europe.
.

Heaven has no rage like a modern nerd, Nor hell a fury like an EU clerk...

[Morrawind]

I think this video actually IS about (games like) X-rebirth.

These laws are created nowadays because there is a need for it. It's the result of the way companies like Egosoft operate.

And I still wait for a working version of X-rebirth. I am not going to curse Egosoft.
But I am, gently said, very disappointed in the way and state X-rebirth has been released. You just can't do this Egosoft.

Egosoft broke my trust in gaming companies forever!

[spankahontis]

Actually there is since the game is one of the buggiest, broken pieces of garbage ever made. The post is very relevant to Rebirth. Especially to those who are still trying to get refunds.

<Already moderated comment removed from quote. Alan Phipps>

You've never played Rome 2?

6 Months and it's still a pile of buggy crap on a plate.
People continue to arse lick them for a sub-standard product.

It's only been 3 months, yet Creative Assembly get away with all kinds of shit; they're the bigger company.

I think this video actually IS about (games like) X-rebirth.

These laws are created nowadays because there is a need for it. It's the result of the way companies like Egosoft operate.

And I still wait for a working version of X-rebirth. I am not going to curse Egosoft.
But I am, gently said, very disappointed in the way and state X-rebirth has been released. You just can't do this Egosoft.

Egosoft broke my trust in gaming companies forever!

Difference is Egosoft have sold buggy games before and have fixed them.
They have a reputation for fixing their mess.

You want to complain about trust being violated, like I said above, spend 15 years as a fanboy of Creative Assembly and swallow their PR and selling of features they give you later and ask you to be thankful for giving you stuff you should of received in the first place and sell it off like it's new content.
That's violation of trust.

Egosoft broke my trust in gaming companies forever!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqm8JGnSshE

[scottykad]

so this law doesn't come into effect until 2014..is this why rebirth was rushed out in such a mess?

[ragod]

Hmmmm.....may not bode well for smaller developers and could well drive some good and exiting projects into the big greedy corporations.

I doubt this will effect X Rebirth as many from the UK had certain protections in place and have already had their refunds, while others like me have stayed with Rebirth knowing egosoft will first fix the game and then give us some extra content for the game as they often have in the past.

Some wrongly believe that if it is released in the USA then the company wont have to cough up a refund, however the UK has a double barrelled shotgun when applying legislation, We can use UK law and if not resolved, then go to the European courts, which as many know, can squeeze billions out of mighty corporations such as Google and Microsoft, if the don't obey laws set down anywhere in Europe.

The one saving grace for small developers like egosoft, is that they have a proven and enviable track record of fixing and repairing there product to a higher standard that was originally intended, and this new legislation will allow some flexibility within the law for this to be allowed, without affecting a consumers right to demand a refund from whoever supplied the product.

I think X Rebirth has demonstrated egosofts commitment to repairing the product and I also cannot see the new legislation being used retrospectively.

downside to this business model is by the time thier game is ready or of a reasonable standard its in the bargain bins for £4.99

maybe this hasnt dawned on them ?

Except everyone that was planning on buying the game bought it at full price when it hit the streets. And if the price goes down, people who never planned on buying the game will give it a go, much as I have with the dozens of games I've bought on Steam for £5 that I never would have touched at full price.

Digital code sold with little to no reproduction costs is still profit.

The question though, is did you look at any reviews for those 5 dollar games you bought?

I myself have bought a number of cheepo games, but never have I EVER bought anything with a rating so low as XR's and that is not going to get better as time goes on.

Hell, they dont even have a single positive review that they can plaster at the top of their page to try to fool people into thinking that reviewers liked it...

Unless they resort to some silly stuff

"Best game I have ever played 10/10!"
-Some dude on metacritic

"A worthy Successor to the X franchise!"
-Chixbanger7042

[LV]

so this law doesn't come into effect until 2014..is this why rebirth was rushed out in such a mess?

Yes, As the maniacal Bernd slowly spun anti clockwise in his executive chair, stroking his cat, he knew he must order his minions to rush it out in advance of this dastardly law that would end his pursuit of his own volcanic lair.

[Tasogie]

Jesus this forum gets worse an worse.....last time I saw this many tears was listening to the chavs on ITV saying it wasn't fair people dont like their hate an brutality on old people....

[pjknibbs]

Jesus this forum gets worse an worse.....last time I saw this many tears was listening to the chavs on ITV saying it wasn't fair people dont like their hate an brutality on old people....

And you think posts like this improve things? I beg to differ. It applies whether you're pro- or anti-Rebirth: please post constructively, or not at all.

[Tasogie]

Fair enough, I am just fed up with seeing these people scream ill sue an demand this n that when they an everyone els knows it isnt going to happen. The forum is something of a cess pit for those of us who enjoy Ergosoft games an we get abused by this lot for daring to enjoy something.

[BigBANGtheory]

What is missing isn't so much a change in law, its an easy facility to dispute digital media with a trader if you've been effected by its quality, backed up by an independent ombudsmen service.

Ease of access is the key.

This is why as a consumer I choose to shop at Amazon, its not always the cheapest but they are generally pretty reasonable about these types of things.

Personally although I have endured what I would consider unacceptable technical support with respect to XR and its performance problems, I haven't gone down the refund route as I do see light at the end of the tunnel. I can wait longer for the changes and am prepared to give Egosoft a chance to see good on its promise to listen to feedback (and do something about it). However that is my decision you can't expect everyone to be that understanding, there will be many that have a very legitimate reason to return XR. What I would say though is if you want to do that ffs get on and do it, don't do nothing and then moan about it you'll get no sympathy for that.

In fact that reminds me, I have a promise to keep to write to Klemens Kundratitz concerning his companies technical support.

[CARISMBLUE]

In my opinion there must be something for consumers on the digital market. The digital market still gets ignored most of the time. But games are hard to handle. It's not as easy as buying a car. All cars drive on the same streets but games run on many different computers and doing QA for all possible system configurations can get pretty expensive. I'm just saying that games are hard to handle except console games or other games on fixed sand boxes. The only thing are features. These can be determined before the release. But all promised features of X-Rebirth are there. So nothing to argue about. In my opinion such laws can't do much about bugs and performance problems. I also think that such laws would make it even harder for small companies to deliver games because of the costs of QA.

But something should be taken into account. When you buy a car you have the option to do a test drive to check it's handling and so on. On games you are still buying stuff blind. The only option is waiting for community reviews of the game. But even this is not as good as testing it yourself. Because forums are always full of negative feedback and almost no good feedback. And that someone is angry because of low FPS doesn't mean that your PC will suffer from the same problem. There should be demos for every game that would be something into the right direction.

[Nosscar]

Fair enough, I am just fed up with seeing these people scream ill sue an demand this n that when they an everyone els knows it isnt going to happen. The forum is something of a cess pit for those of us who enjoy Ergosoft games an we get abused by this lot for daring to enjoy something.

+10.


not gonna break forum rule, not gonna break forum rules, not gonna break forum rules, 10 deep breaths, chill, I am ok now.

Know exactly how you feel.


And CARISMBLUE :
Good and valid post.:

[Varek Raith]

People are tired of getting screwed. It's why such laws are being introduced/expanded in the EU. The game industry has been doing this crap for the past 10+ years. I'm amused they didn't think it'll come back and bite them in the butt.