I should maybe not do that again.

General discussions about X Rebirth.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

lyonhaert
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue, 26. Dec 17, 15:46
x3tc

I should maybe not do that again.

Post by lyonhaert » Mon, 5. Feb 18, 18:16

I don't see Marauder L/XL ships too often in Far Out sector so far (still fairly early in the game), but since I had a marine contingent and already had a little experience boarding a Rahanas I had to jump on the opportunity to board a Marauder Titurel when I noticed one in Woodland Pasture.

It was attacking a station there, but wasn't too badly beat up yet considering the Balor and station there (it seemed to be flirting with the station's gun range). So I boost in behind the engines and take out the jump drive first. I take out 1 or 2 of the small engines and just poke at it. I want it to boost away and have it all to myself. After another pass at the station and losing most of its shields, it eventually decides to do that.

However, I should have targeted the Balor to track distance before taking out the engines, because when I finished the engines I checked the Balor and it was only 25km. Now I'm thinking, "that doesn't seem like much, is it going to pursue?" Save game.

I get to work on the surface elements and zap the jump drive a second time. I finish all of those and work on bringing the hull down more. I check the Balor: 15km. It's pursuing, though leisurely. Save game.

I start the boarding op and launch marines. A volley of 4 missiles from the Balor hits not to long after the last of the marines landed and I don't like how much damage that did to my prize. So I switch weapons and start trying to shoot down the missiles. Mostly working, as usually 1 of the 4 gets through, but I'm buying time. I got to close at one point and the AOE of one (or two?) of them detonating took my shields, brought my hull down to 30%, and damaged my engine. Oops.

But I managed to buy enough time that the marines succeeded and the Balor wandered off. Save game. Learn to breath again.
:lol:

I really like how piracy feels in this game.

Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 30367
Joined: Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:21
x4

Post by Alan Phipps » Tue, 6. Feb 18, 13:00

That's one of the amusing quirks of the game.

"Hey look at that guy taking big risks to shoot down our missiles launched at that raider attacking our assets! OK, let's give him a friendly wave as we go past because he must have a good reason for doing it." :D
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

Nanook
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 27829
Joined: Thu, 15. May 03, 20:57
x4

Post by Nanook » Tue, 6. Feb 18, 20:12

Well, shooting down the missiles is in lieu of comming the captain of the Balor and informing him/her you have a boarding op in progress and requesting him/her to stand down. That would've been the logical thing to do. If only, right?
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 30367
Joined: Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:21
x4

Post by Alan Phipps » Tue, 6. Feb 18, 20:32

The thing is, while your boarding op that might or might not eventually succeed is in progress, the target could still be shooting its turrets at the bases or traders the guardship is there to protect. Why should the sentinel consider breaking off its attack in that case?

"Please delay your attack and I'll make amends for any damage or losses the target causes in the meantime." might be a more acceptable approach - if we could do that. :)
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

GCU Grey Area
Posts: 7776
Joined: Sat, 14. Feb 04, 23:07
x4

Post by GCU Grey Area » Tue, 6. Feb 18, 21:56

Not sure the player should ever be able to order around military units - no matter how high the player's rep they're still a civilian & not in the chain of command.

Even shooting down missiles is something that IMO should really only be tolerated at quite high rep levels (at low rep should maybe turn the military vessel hostile too) - after all it is deliberate interference with military operations against an enemy faction.

However, do think it would be good to have the option to call off a boarding op if the target ship comes under fire (or even the op's just going badly) - i.e. surviving marines return to their boarding pods & fly back to the Skunk.

RainerPrem
Posts: 3560
Joined: Wed, 18. Jan 06, 07:39
x4

Post by RainerPrem » Wed, 7. Feb 18, 05:49

Nanook wrote:Well, shooting down the missiles is in lieu of comming the captain of the Balor and informing him/her you have a boarding op in progress and requesting him/her to stand down. That would've been the logical thing to do. If only, right?
Hi,

while incoming military killing a target just before the boarding commenced is annoying, guys, this is a game, not "real life". So reload to the point before the boarding and lure your target farther away from that place. Or make some amendments to increase the boarding speed. Or give up and take another target.

Once upon a time I needed nearly an hour to shoot down all turrets of a Lyramekron before I called my Taranis to reduce its hull. At the moment I just destroy enough to give me a point where I can safely drop my pods, and then I circle around, using the turrets to speed up the boarding. Ten minutes tops.

cu
Rainer

lyonhaert
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue, 26. Dec 17, 15:46
x3tc

Post by lyonhaert » Wed, 7. Feb 18, 16:32

Nanook wrote:Well, shooting down the missiles is in lieu of comming the captain of the Balor and informing him/her you have a boarding op in progress and requesting him/her to stand down. That would've been the logical thing to do. If only, right?
I wish. Target Balor -> Comm -> STAHP.
Alan Phipps wrote:The thing is, while your boarding op that might or might not eventually succeed is in progress, the target could still be shooting its turrets at the bases or traders the guardship is there to protect. Why should the sentinel consider breaking off its attack in that case?
That situation makes sense for the sentinel to continue the attack, though, because it's still a threat. But 40km from the station with no weapons, engines, or shields means I have that well in hand. However, their cease fire presumes a generous, courteous disposition of a military captain. I'm just going to presume that's not the case. :D

"Ha! Look at that guy trying to pirate the pirates. Let's go have some fun."
GCU Grey Area wrote:However, do think it would be good to have the option to call off a boarding op if the target ship comes under fire (or even the op's just going badly) - i.e. surviving marines return to their boarding pods & fly back to the Skunk.
That would be nice. 3x5 MOs are less than abundant, and it takes time to train the marines.
RainerPrem wrote:while incoming military killing a target just before the boarding commenced is annoying, guys, this is a game, not "real life". So reload to the point before the boarding and lure your target farther away from that place. Or make some amendments to increase the boarding speed. Or give up and take another target.

Once upon a time I needed nearly an hour to shoot down all turrets of a Lyramekron before I called my Taranis to reduce its hull. At the moment I just destroy enough to give me a point where I can safely drop my pods, and then I circle around, using the turrets to speed up the boarding. Ten minutes tops.
Savescumming multiple stages - rather than just the quicksave - is probably a better approach than how I did it (didn't keep one where the Titurel was boosting away before taking out its engines). I still think I should figure out the best weapon for shooting missiles, though. I wish I could target them and counter with missiles.

=====

Ledda Industrial seems to have left some freighters around with no orders in quiet, isolated areas. I wonder how mad they'd be if I give them purpose again. I wonder if they'd still let me trade in their high-tech goods. Guess there's only one way to find out. :D

Nanook
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 27829
Joined: Thu, 15. May 03, 20:57
x4

Post by Nanook » Wed, 7. Feb 18, 20:20

Alan Phipps wrote:The thing is, while your boarding op that might or might not eventually succeed is in progress, the target could still be shooting its turrets at the bases or traders the guardship is there to protect. Why should the sentinel consider breaking off its attack in that case?...
If the target was still firing on others, fair enough. Tell me, how many boarding ops have you successfully done within range of a station? Me, none! The station tends to kill the target before the boarding op is complete. Besides, I always disable a targets weapons before attempting to board it since I don't like my marines getting shot down. :wink:

In other words, if the target is no longer an immediate threat, the player should be able to ask the military to stand down, IMO. It's only logical, since you're helping to eliminate a threat.
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 30367
Joined: Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:21
x4

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 7. Feb 18, 22:22

Ah fair enough.

I only destroy the turrets that actually threaten the area where I launch the marine pods. The rest of the turrets and minor shield gens I leave as good diversionary boarding assist targets (to reduce the risk of Yisha deciding to take out the drone launcher, capital shield gens or deciding to hazard my hacker drone instead).

It also saves quite some time for the overall operation and so actually reduces the risk of external force interference.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

lyonhaert
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue, 26. Dec 17, 15:46
x3tc

Post by lyonhaert » Wed, 7. Feb 18, 22:39

Alan Phipps wrote:Ah fair enough. I only destroy the turrets that actually threaten the area where I launch the marine pods. The rest of the turrets and minor shield gens I leave as good diversionary boarding assist targets (to reduce the risk of Yisha deciding to take out the drone launcher, capital shield gens or deciding to hazard my hacker drone instead).
I guess you can do that when your boarding strength is high enough with elite marines that you don't have to take out everything and most of the hull to be able to take it in the first place. :D

Or are you accomplishing this without getting boarding resistance lower than your boarding strength?

I read in a boarding guide somewhere here that if a turret's hull is under 25% or something that it won't fire. Haven't tried that out to see if it's true (or still true).

Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 30367
Joined: Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:21
x4

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 7. Feb 18, 22:59

Yes you do need mainly non-rookie marines and a semi-decent Marine Officer. It is very useful to know where to release the pods safely after killing just the minimum line-of-sight turrets.

I find reducing a bit of extra hull more efficient and effective at reducing the target defence strength than killing all the surface elements. I gave the actual boarding advantages of doing that above. Hull repair with a good Engineer and some surviving CURVs always progresses pretty quickly, much faster than drive repair. (Going well OOZ or even OOS while repairing also helps.)

This approach also means that just after the boarding my Defence Officer has some intact defences and the ship has some shields while the Engineer is fixing the hull, etc. That's useful for when the Captain can't jump, move or turn the ship when some light enemies show up - if I'm not around.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

lyonhaert
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue, 26. Dec 17, 15:46
x3tc

Post by lyonhaert » Wed, 7. Feb 18, 23:10

4.3, right? I was experimentally taking an idle LI Scaldis the other night and even after taking out everything but the drone bay and dragging the hull down to <10% (competing against its 4 cURVs) its resistance was still well over 60 (my strength was around 40 at the time). As soon as I popped the drone bay it was just over 10.

Oooooh, I bet it has to do with how many drones are still in there. I'll have to run by that ship and see how many are aboard.

Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 30367
Joined: Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:21
x4

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 7. Feb 18, 23:20

In that situation where your boarding attack strength is still pretty low, I would probably have taken the drone bay and the capital shield gen out first of all as they have high relative significance (yes all owned drones count) and you really don't want an in-operation task from Yisha to kill the capital shield gen as it can take too long for the time given using basic weapons.

I would have left some non-threatening turrets and minor shield gens intact as quick op assist targets just to get a quick resolution.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

RainerPrem
Posts: 3560
Joined: Wed, 18. Jan 06, 07:39
x4

Post by RainerPrem » Thu, 8. Feb 18, 05:41

Nanook wrote:
Alan Phipps wrote:The thing is, while your boarding op that might or might not eventually succeed is in progress, the target could still be shooting its turrets at the bases or traders the guardship is there to protect. Why should the sentinel consider breaking off its attack in that case?...
If the target was still firing on others, fair enough. Tell me, how many boarding ops have you successfully done within range of a station? Me, none! The station tends to kill the target before the boarding op is complete. Besides, I always disable a targets weapons before attempting to board it since I don't like my marines getting shot down. :wink:

In other words, if the target is no longer an immediate threat, the player should be able to ask the military to stand down, IMO. It's only logical, since you're helping to eliminate a threat.
Note: Freighters don't shoot at pods. I have boarded too few fighters to say anything about that, but if ever a boarding pod is shot it happened while the freighter and my Taranis were still exchanging hot welcomes.

cu
Rainer

RainerPrem
Posts: 3560
Joined: Wed, 18. Jan 06, 07:39
x4

Post by RainerPrem » Thu, 8. Feb 18, 05:44

lyonhaert wrote: Savescumming multiple stages - rather than just the quicksave - is probably a better approach than how I did it (didn't keep one where the Titurel was boosting away before taking out its engines). I still think I should figure out the best weapon for shooting missiles, though. I wish I could target them and counter with missiles.
I only make a named save at the beginning. The result of most boardings is decided very quickly, so quicksaves only save as protection against fumbles (like suddenly finding myself in the belly of the ship I'd like to board) or unexpected incoming missiles.

If my target gets shot by another capital ship I anyway have to repeat the whole boarding sequence.

cu
Rainer

RainerPrem
Posts: 3560
Joined: Wed, 18. Jan 06, 07:39
x4

Post by RainerPrem » Thu, 8. Feb 18, 05:54

lyonhaert wrote:4.3, right? I was experimentally taking an idle LI Scaldis the other night and even after taking out everything but the drone bay and dragging the hull down to <10% (competing against its 4 cURVs) its resistance was still well over 60 (my strength was around 40 at the time). As soon as I popped the drone bay it was just over 10.

Oooooh, I bet it has to do with how many drones are still in there. I'll have to run by that ship and see how many are aboard.
The Scaldis (2.1 mio hull) is not an easy target compared to all those Rahanases (1.3 mio hull) flying around. The latter sometimes needs only a single volley of tristars to destroy jumpdrive, the adjacent turrets AND both engines.

cu
Rainer

lyonhaert
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue, 26. Dec 17, 15:46
x3tc

Post by lyonhaert » Thu, 8. Feb 18, 18:35

RainerPrem wrote:Note: Freighters don't shoot at pods. I have boarded too few fighters to say anything about that, but if ever a boarding pod is shot it happened while the freighter and my Taranis were still exchanging hot welcomes.
That's good to know.
RainerPrem wrote:The Scaldis (2.1 mio hull) is not an easy target compared to all those Rahanases (1.3 mio hull) flying around. The latter sometimes needs only a single volley of tristars to destroy jumpdrive, the adjacent turrets AND both engines.
Also good to know. It was definitely a chore bringing down the shields and hull of the Scaldis, even with Pulse Maser Mk3 and Heavy Laser.

The Scaldis had 60 Cargolifter and 4 cURV in its bay. No wonder it was a pain.

I capped it several times last night, half of the time taking everything out first to avoid Yisha's missions, leaving stuff the other half of the times. In all situations I took hull to 5% and tried to keep it there for consistency.

As Alan Phipps said, leaving stuff for Yisha to tell me to do quickens the 5 stages. I had initially learned from some YouTube videos where they were just taking everything out so Yisha wouln't bother them. I figure if surface elements are weakened first, it's even faster, and turrets in a severe state of damage definitely stop firing.

Timing from the moment the last marine attached (he likes to bounce around a bit first, I guess), destroy-everything-first took at least 2:20 (as much as 2:40 in one case), while the shortest time with taking out Yisha's targets (pre-weakened) so far was around 1:40. I figure that could be improved upon a little bit by taking out the small handful of rear elements so that all Yisha's options are clustered at the front of the ship.

lyonhaert
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue, 26. Dec 17, 15:46
x3tc

Post by lyonhaert » Tue, 13. Feb 18, 00:38

Thanks very much for everybody's advice.

Did a lot of boarding ops over the weekend and opened myself to different tactics. Switched my engine from Sidewinder to Supercharged for a while but ended up settling on Equalized for the balance of maneuvering around stations at a tolerable pace and chasing down boosting freighters. Bought Plasma Cannon Mk3 and Railgun Mk1. These and advice from you gentlemen and practice ended up changing my style quite a bit. Much more sniping with the railgun now, which one-shots unshielded HIT/MA turrets and two-shots unshielded Plasma/MA turrets, rather than prairie-dogging with the Heavy Laser. I do kinda miss the Heavy Laser, though, but the Railgun seems to bypass shields, too.

Captured a number of Rahanas and Titurel over that time. Early on I wasn't paying attention and sent a Rahanas on a trade to Verdant Profit where it died, then I went on a revenge-capture spree against Phoenix Marauders there, which are pretty broken to farm because of their unpragmatic script and selling price. Traitor drones help make quick work of them, along with their convenient parking spot up front.

I'm considering not buying ships at all and forming my entire fleet from captures, even though the Omicron Lyrae ships are really nice. Haven't bought any ships so far, actually.

Discovered the gold mine of assassination missions. First one was a Hard mission against a Light Sul and Balor escort. Ended up destroying the Balor while sitting just outside its missile range. Seems strange that it should fire Novadrones but never throttle them up to 1000 m/s.

Later I took an assassination mission that was "Very Hard" but showed a Titurel as the target's ship. I thought, "okay, I could use another Titurel, but those are usually Medium difficulty". Then they spawned and I discovered its escort was an Arawn. Disabled the Titurel before it got in range of the station while the Arawn was lagging above it, and then it took well over 2 hours working at range and up close to bring the Arawn to the point there I could board it.

Now have 20 Elites and 30 Veterans, capturing Rahanas and Titurels fairly intact, even with their Construction URVs. :D Anymore I just capture Rahanas to train marines, harvest drones, and sell the ship if they present themselves as a target of opportunity and I have the time.

RainerPrem
Posts: 3560
Joined: Wed, 18. Jan 06, 07:39
x4

Post by RainerPrem » Tue, 13. Feb 18, 05:57

lyonhaert wrote: ...

I'm considering not buying ships at all and forming my entire fleet from captures, even though the Omicron Lyrae ships are really nice. Haven't bought any ships so far, actually.

...
Hi,

that's exactly my style of game as well. You can get Lyraneas, Lyramecrons and Sanahars by the number just by waiting in Last Stand for them to jump in. The biggest problem is to get good crews for them quickly enough.

I got one FP Olmekron in Eclipse Clouds. It was harassing one of my freighters and shortly afterward appeared in Murky Skies, already rather battered by the station defense.

You can get ATL Arawns in Reef's Edge (Cold Star/Quarry). Often one of them is "guarding" the ATL Colony Outpost.

cu
Rainer

ajime
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon, 15. May 17, 09:00
x4

Post by ajime » Tue, 13. Feb 18, 07:54

lyonhaert wrote:Thanks very much for everybody's advice.

Did a lot of boarding ops over the weekend and opened myself to different tactics. Switched my engine from Sidewinder to Supercharged for a while but ended up settling on Equalized for the balance of maneuvering around stations at a tolerable pace and chasing down boosting freighters. Bought Plasma Cannon Mk3 and Railgun Mk1. These and advice from you gentlemen and practice ended up changing my style quite a bit. Much more sniping with the railgun now, which one-shots unshielded HIT/MA turrets and two-shots unshielded Plasma/MA turrets, rather than prairie-dogging with the Heavy Laser. I do kinda miss the Heavy Laser, though, but the Railgun seems to bypass shields, too.

Captured a number of Rahanas and Titurel over that time. Early on I wasn't paying attention and sent a Rahanas on a trade to Verdant Profit where it died, then I went on a revenge-capture spree against Phoenix Marauders there, which are pretty broken to farm because of their unpragmatic script and selling price. Traitor drones help make quick work of them, along with their convenient parking spot up front.

I'm considering not buying ships at all and forming my entire fleet from captures, even though the Omicron Lyrae ships are really nice. Haven't bought any ships so far, actually.

Discovered the gold mine of assassination missions. First one was a Hard mission against a Light Sul and Balor escort. Ended up destroying the Balor while sitting just outside its missile range. Seems strange that it should fire Novadrones but never throttle them up to 1000 m/s.

Later I took an assassination mission that was "Very Hard" but showed a Titurel as the target's ship. I thought, "okay, I could use another Titurel, but those are usually Medium difficulty". Then they spawned and I discovered its escort was an Arawn. Disabled the Titurel before it got in range of the station while the Arawn was lagging above it, and then it took well over 2 hours working at range and up close to bring the Arawn to the point there I could board it.

Now have 20 Elites and 30 Veterans, capturing Rahanas and Titurels fairly intact, even with their Construction URVs. :D Anymore I just capture Rahanas to train marines, harvest drones, and sell the ship if they present themselves as a target of opportunity and I have the time.
personally astrobees makes turret problem go away quite quickly. I tend to stock them up for pirating purposes.

Post Reply

Return to “X Rebirth Universe”