[WIP] X Rebirth: The New Frontier

Timianer · Post by **Timianer** » Tue, 3. Jul 18, 11:50

Hm Hm Hm...
Im Playing a run without any DLCs to test what happens, if there are no Xenon cheat stations.
Seems that absolutley no faction becomes an economy to run...
there are rand full stations in OL in one Sector.. and other stations that need this ressources in another sector.. nobody trade with another

there are a 2 stations beside in one zone in DV.. a shiptech fab that need nvidium Cubes.. and a Cristall Fab 35km beside.. the dont trade with it and its rand full..

and so long
i seeing this in All sectores, at all Factions..

im Trying to spend ships to this stations.. but...
this ships flying away after a time.. swaps to an "Friend Faction" and do not stay at the spend stations....

its horrorble to se that nothing works, without support of ACME or Deepwater, the seemingly ship parts act galaxy-wide and now without xenon do not know what they are doing... they are doing nothing...

to bring some trade into the different,. universes I built warehousees and sold them to the different factions.
But that doesn't work either, because these warehouses becames no ships to buy and sell...
nothing works right anymore.
Is apparently everything designed for the xenon ship parts, which either the player or the xenon supplies the galaxy with ship parts.. alone not a single faction can do this.

All shipyards except those of Plutarch and HoL stand still 90% because ship part is lacking... as are most URV productions.

If I hadn't built a solar power plant in the shadow fog sector, there wouldn't be 1 factory producing there to this day, because they don't collect or get energy cells from the other sectors.
same with bofu..

hm hm hm...
i think the whole trading concept needs to be rethought or revised somehow.
Maybe the factions shuld build more big trading ships .. and not only this tiny ships.. but no.. if they have enough parts.. what do they do ?
Right. build the next fighting ship...

another example.. this dump Cristal factorys from NPCs in DV .. they have only 1 tiny trad ship that can handle Nividium cubes or crystal things...
one for all ...sell , buy trade.. but 2 for normal cargo.. thats also anoing...
And ACME in DV dosent handle Nividium Cubes ^^ so all stands^^

even AR and JSS with their 100th ships can't keep up their economy halfway... not even their basic needs bofu and energy they trade across sector borders...

a tragedy

That the economy doesn't work at all is only noticed when you don't have the xenon cheat stations in-game.

Have you never tested it?
------------------------------
Other thing...
You say, that factions build ther ships at the closest friend shipyard...
ähm.. no
they bild, where they can build...
so build RYK at PMC or HoL or DV shipyard.. the longest way ever...
but the only shipyards that halfway works with my support...
there own in OL from JSS or AR all stands.. since days ^^

why ? no bufu or energy in the shippart productions ^^ hahaha

so much to... the ship parts should ensure that production is faster and production does not stop when only 1 raw material is missing.
The whole idea is chees... because the normal ship part production needs 8 resources to work... the factories that make these 8 more 8 etc...
so the whole idea is obsolete...

the only ones who really benefit from it would be the xenon, because they have all in one stations.
if you take these stations out of the game without DLCs (so my test) it almost doesn't work anymore.
******************************************************

how can it solved ?!
hmm
1.give us a way to spend ships to the Manager of an NPC station .. maybe its helps..
2. NPC factions shuld have ther own Galaxy (not unverse) wide trading ships.. maybe all 3 stations they must build one.. if one lost they must build another.. so that all these still standing stations have a chance to buy and sell ther wares to other factorys that are waiting...
3. NPC favtions shuld relay only build there ships in there shipyards..

can not be, that Factions thieves the ressources from other "friend" faction by simply using their shipyrds and so constantly blocking the shipyards for the NPC owner faction.

only my 2 cents to the test...

spccasey · Post by **spccasey** » Tue, 3. Jul 18, 23:59

Timianer wrote:thx i will try it.
Must here be an second Marine Officer on the ship im want to trasfer the marines ?
and yes i have also stations that im want to destroy or sell (some outposts) but no way ^^
---------
@spccasey
i hope you have blocked shipparts for NPCs on your Shippard producktion
NPCs buying also for max price.. they all yearn for it.
and
check the sell and the buying prices at your stations.
if your urv station buy's all of your production take the buying prices down and the price on shippyard up.
or set both prices , URV and Shipyard to absolut the same.

I been stop selling my shipparts to other factions. I set both stations that produces them to non trade. They still wont transfer the ship parts to my SY. They will trade ship weapons with my SY though. I have over 200 ship weapons at my SY.

by the way.. the Xenon Shippard production pruduces realy slow.
im must build 3 of this things to feed one URV and one shippyard .
2 are completly NPC blocked and on is open for all as an "reserve" for my buying ships and money making.
-----------
@ MM
i have viewed in the maps universe file.
is this correct that there are mostly 3 buildspots for players and 4 for NPCs per zone ?
that means, that ... if an npc faction build 4 stations in my ownend zones they can ever overtake it ?
hmm..
and 2.
buying and selling stations is.. there a bug ?
i thing.. if i want to buy a station from an other faction the drohnes, rockets, cargo and police ships count to the price...
if im sell the same station its not count... so its result..
im buying an .. maybe Solar Factory for 380 mio and can sell it to the same faction for... 33 mio ? ^^ hahahahaha
realy baaaaadddd business ^^
the whole universe thinks .. Ren Otani is an idiot ^^

I've been blocked ship parts on both my production plant. They still wont grab them. I'm now having problems with my small bulk ships not transporting anything that my station needs that required items that are classified as bulk. They just fly around. Some of them are docked at their assigned station and wont leave.

The station that produce microchips requires metal plating (bulk). My station that produces the metals, the stations small bulk transporter on both stations wont transport them. so now I have no microchips, ship parts, clueless transport ships, and lacking 2 other products that is crucial to my economy. My shipyards are at a halt. Shipyards across the galaxy are at a halt. Wares that are crucial to every station I have is not being transported. Each station is missing 1 or 2 products that it needs to produce that other stations are holding onto.

Another thing that is pissing me off is my trade station. I selected wares that I wanted to store into it and selected buy. I even assigned the station a L trade ship. 45 min goes by and its still empty. He doesn't even ask for a budget.

Overall, I have a useless trade station, Half built ships, useless stations that is holding onto certain produced products, and useless small bulk trade ships that doesn't want to transport anything. Been having this problem since I built my 2nd station.

The economy is broken. The crazy thing is, if I set my products to sell to other factions, they will quickly sell them to other factions. I don't get it. When I restrict it, they still wont trade with own stations.

If anybody knows any mods that can have an conflict with this mod, please tell me.

Timianer · Post by **Timianer** » Wed, 4. Jul 18, 10:44

yea the economy is brocken.
in my game it seems, that noone trades water.
so im build a water factory.. aannddd...... nothing...
the station fills up... but my 2 cargo ships dosent want sell water although prices are everywhere at +66

so i tested 3 houers around with diferent ships.. nothing..
so im set a new manager at the station and now it works.

i think it comes so :
if im build an station and a manager is present, before the saddleliet bowl is build the station sells nothing.
Also if the saddleiet bowl is build and im switching from zone to sector to system its dosent work.
seems that the game ignore the setting, if an manager present before im build the bowl
only after I built the bowl and put a new manager after building the bowl on the station the station started to sell

if this also with all from NPC build stations .. i hope that this isnt so....
then nothng works anymore.. nobody sells by itsells.. only sells if an other station sends ships to buy.
Damm i hafe an Water list ingame from buing and selling that reads:
buy +66 round 20 times
Sell -66 round 15 times..
all Water

i have also checked, if NPC stations have there trading ships. Yes they have there tiny trad ships..

the only 2-3 mods im use are
show Skills
Fly by subscribe
and realy rare the Station destroy or recycle mod.
The Cwir Mod version is 5-7 days old...
(yeah my battle ships shoot stations -haha- this runs very good ^^ but the economy runs out..

)

Have Fun ^^ happy beta testing

Marvin Martian · Post by **Marvin Martian** » Wed, 4. Jul 18, 11:27

spccasey wrote:Another thing that is pissing me off is my trade station. I selected wares that I wanted to store into it and selected buy. I even assigned the station a L trade ship. 45 min goes by and its still empty. He doesn't even ask for a budget.

but you have give the Manager some Mio of Cr meanwhile?? otherwise from what money he should pay the material
and Old XR logic, if you change your warelist, best do new assign the traders (or use "Captain->jobchange", in theorey the trader should update his warelist himself, but this is the better way)
i think you have checked your Station range, this is a common problem too sometimes

spccasey · Post by **spccasey** » Wed, 4. Jul 18, 18:38

Timianer wrote:yea the economy is brocken.
in my game it seems, that noone trades water.
so im build a water factory.. aannddd...... nothing...
the station fills up... but my 2 cargo ships dosent want sell water although prices are everywhere at +66

so i tested 3 houers around with diferent ships.. nothing..
so im set a new manager at the station and now it works.

i think it comes so :
if im build an station and a manager is present, before the saddleliet bowl is build the station sells nothing.
Also if the saddleiet bowl is build and im switching from zone to sector to system its dosent work.
seems that the game ignore the setting, if an manager present before im build the bowl
only after I built the bowl and put a new manager after building the bowl on the station the station started to sell

if this also with all from NPC build stations .. i hope that this isnt so....
then nothng works anymore.. nobody sells by itsells.. only sells if an other station sends ships to buy.
Damm i hafe an Water list ingame from buing and selling that reads:
buy +66 round 20 times
Sell -66 round 15 times..
all Water

i have also checked, if NPC stations have there trading ships. Yes they have there tiny trad ships..

the only 2-3 mods im use are
show Skills
Fly by subscribe
and realy rare the Station destroy or recycle mod.
The Cwir Mod version is 5-7 days old...
(yeah my battle ships shoot stations -haha- this runs very good ^^ but the economy runs out.. )

Have Fun ^^ happy beta testing

I changed managers and reassign the ships. Nothing still works. I have microchips on one station waiting to be picked up. I have over 8,000 on the station and they're not even picking them up. In my property screen, every single station is missing resources and is at a halt. Each one of those stations has products in its storage that other stations needs while those stations has products that the other station needs. [/quote]

spccasey · Post by **spccasey** » Wed, 4. Jul 18, 18:50

Marvin Martian wrote:
spccasey wrote:Another thing that is pissing me off is my trade station. I selected wares that I wanted to store into it and selected buy. I even assigned the station a L trade ship. 45 min goes by and its still empty. He doesn't even ask for a budget.
but you have give the Manager some Mio of Cr meanwhile?? otherwise from what money he should pay the material
and Old XR logic, if you change your warelist, best do new assign the traders (or use "Captain->jobchange", in theorey the trader should update his warelist himself, but this is the better way)
i think you have checked your Station range, this is a common problem too sometimes

I changed my manager and gave him 100,000,000 cr (even though he ask for 0) and assigned him a universal trade ship after adding wares to the list to be stored. I keep on changing the station range. Nothing still. I changed it back to galaxy and still nothing.

I didn't have any of these issues when I was playing conquest and war mod. Only problem I had in Conquest and War mod was keeping up with supply and demand. my products was selling quicker than resources needed coming in to make them. So I had to buy more trade ships to get rid of the breaks in my production.

spccasey · Post by **spccasey** » Wed, 4. Jul 18, 19:02

I might have to start a new game and see what happens. days of gameplay gone down the drain. I took over Molten Archon and populated every zone. Use to be dead. No ships nor station anywhere. Now its thriving a little. If the economy wasn't broken, I think I would have made over a billion by now.

My SY even build ships for my enemies. I don't get it. Even though they're indicated as enemies, They don't attack unless my ships attack it first. Its like all the factions in my game has twin factions. There are 2 AMCE factions. One likes me and the other hates me. Same with Plutarch and Albion. Byrell is the same way.

Can anybody tell me what mod not to use before I start a new game????

Timianer · Post by **Timianer** » Wed, 4. Jul 18, 20:17

oh im running my 4. or 5. game ..
sometimes with DLCs sometime witout them.

thats also an goal of testing . Im as also an Mod Autor for other games know, that you never can test all Scenarios alone. What happens when the player do this or that.. what happens when.. ^^
-------------------
if i sayed.
im using this
Show me your Skills and Fly by subscribe.
but i dont think, that these mods broke the economy. works fine with older versions of cwir TNF..
the broken economy cames by me with the 5-6 days old version and after starting a new game 5 days ago.
----------------
update for my post above:
A Water station that dosent work from Canteran now works fine, after im Bying the station and put an new manager on the station...
and put an largo water cargo ship to it and an miner.
hm hm hm.....
Note;
i have seen an NPC water station in OL from Chow ?! .. (im dock an CV from me on it) that dosent work.. the station has 2 ! saddleliet bowls in theyr build list

the station is absolutley full wit 800k Water an sells nothing..

[ external image ]

Marvin Martian · Post by **Marvin Martian** » Wed, 4. Jul 18, 20:58

NF stop all Jobs of Corp-Factions at an point, so there is a big difference to classic CWIR or vanilla, with jobs Ships spawn like planned or when they get destroyed and much better, Job-traders start with full cargo-space so they you have endless resort of wares, also very rare
this isn't here at NF, yes Acme have some jobships, but that only a handfull, not the mass of classic gameing
at NF a smaller amount of traders need to do all the work, with jobs you have hardly dedicated traders for each ware in all spaces, NF all ships trade whatever they can - it is only limited in what focus the corp have

@spccasey
there is only one ACME, but to protect Miners (they go regardless of the consequences into each zone) they cover as ACME - same at Scouts)

at one of last updates i add the option to define class of Customers, so you can neutral/friend/member - i already haven't had the situation enemy had bought a ship from my SY - maybe the they order before you define them as enemy? - but also in this case the ship should be yours like the code i have written

Timianer · Post by **Timianer** » Thu, 5. Jul 18, 10:09

@ MM
hmm but Water is essentiel, also Bofu in OL
Water is also needed for all Crystal factorys, and they produce a basic ressource for all Shippart factorys. Also Bofu.
Without Water (for bofu/food/ ) and water for crystal-cut no "Vanilla" shippart production.
the production cycle is
URV parts supplier (or the OL Equivalent) -> (this factory needs 3 supplier that needs water, Food suppliers / Bofu /Mega aqua + Crystal factory for DIY store / chem lab and so long...) ---> Schippart Part production

So without an Water sell / buy during the AI the complet eco system crashes and the complete production of all stands after a week of playing.

And now to the tiny buy sell ships for all Sations. Yes they handle all wares, aso wares that are not for theyr own factory ^^ buuuuutttttttt :
Due to their mini cargo hold they do not produce any price change. the price of one factory does not go from -/+66 to another because the delivered quantities are too small.
So it happens that they only ever operate the absolutely same factory and all other factories will never fly to.

An other problem: the tiny cargo ships dosnt fly to other Sectors. the do not use Super Highways and stay at theyr own sector .
But the AI dosent build essential factorys like food and water in all Sectors
so it comes, that Example DV ever build an Water Factory out of ther Main sector.. that never ever would be used from noone
In OL in the same... theyr is an Water factory in wobbling mist but no Mega Aqua or crystal factory.. so its stands.. these factorys are in other sectors theyr no water production is and als stands...
in Wobbling mist sector also wasnt an energy production.. but the complete shippart-shipyard cyrcle.. and all this factorys stands..

so it cames that noone supplied noone.. and all stands

as i said... there is a lack of cross-sector wholesalers to maintain trade.
Although ACME /deepwater tries to do this, it fails, since they only trade in building materials and drones, but not the basic means for operating the factories.

Hence my idea that the AI should build at least all 3-4 factories a big "university dealer for all" that only serves the corresponding faction. This is the only way to change the price from -/+66 to at least 60 or 50 , so that other factories can sometimes be served.
the tyni ships never can do this, if the way to far .

------------
idea
Im Seening maannnyy Big miners in OL...
cant u use the same script also for Trading ?
i mean...
Ok im never seeing an big miner in DV.. they only use small miners

but.. hmm
can u not use the same script, that factions build theeseee big miners (or other universal cargo ships) to build Free trading ships to trade with theyr own faction ?
hmm DV hasnt an universal ship for this... (the pirtes have one.. the canteran not ^^) hahaha balancing isnt that what ? ^^
hmm ..
only my two cents ^^

Marvin Martian · Post by **Marvin Martian** » Thu, 5. Jul 18, 11:38

like it should be: the Factions should have traders for her needs
the smallships should support trades and even more bring life to zones - the real mass should be done by capital traders - but they probably have others to do or simply they are not enough

but your argument of water is essential isn't helpfull, if "water" is solved you same drama will happend about next basic-level-ware - let say all cheap / volume stuff won't traded reliable at the moment

i think i will add much more classic jobs to run the economy - problem is here, the buy-sell difference at trades will go into pocket of ACME, not one of the wallet factions

Timianer · Post by **Timianer** » Thu, 5. Jul 18, 22:43

yea your right. im seeing the same with many ressources, some work, some not.
i think it comes from to far away Stations and that the small traders not can supply more then only one station . if i sayed, the idea, that this smal ships runs around to suppy is ok, but at this piont they never change the prices under the absolute minimum or maximum and they trade only 1 ware..
sometimes im seeing a ships that has only 11 bio things as an ware .. and this ships trys to fly with it to the other end of the sector.

so it never ever can do any other thing.. it will fly this course 1000 times and no price changes , because the station eats this ware in 2 minitues ^^
an big ship that can jump simpley to another sector to buy 20.000 of the same thing change the price on booth stations, the seller and the buyer.
so the tiny ships never came to the idea to fly this way and can do other things.

So yes, i think , if the factions have thr own big ship dealers with free trade for friend factions , the economy runs better..
if they only or ever buy max price-sell max price.. i thing it won't take long the economy starts up again an runs "normal"
mybe not ever 3. station ^^(sometimes im blocking that NPCs build stations... the cant supplye them....or build stupid the 5. Alcohol factory 3 sectors from the next water factory in the same zone ..and i know.. they will never ever run ok it starts full.. runs 2 ingame hours.. is blank and stands for the rest of the game..
------------------
back to topic ^^
maybe the bigships shuldnt be universal cargo ships.. more diferent and based on the number of factories.
so is the AI also forced to trade water, wheat ore energie etc and does not doze with 2 urvs through half the galaxy just because the 2 yield more than 20000 of what else ^^
---------------------

Timianer · Post by **Timianer** » Fri, 6. Jul 18, 10:59

self replay sorry but this is another realy big problem im found out.

i checked many factorys, why they dont work (NPC)
often the small traders are full with wares which they want to deliver to theyr home factory but the factory is also full with this ressource.
So the factory runs out with 1 ressource ever full, but maybe 2 others are empty, because the small traders only try handle one wares and cant dock to sell this on theyr factory because the cargos space of this one ware is full.

So they never came to buy and sell the ware who is emty.

Example: an Shippart/part producktion in DV
3 conatainer mercanis with biooptic full
factory randfull with biooptic but scanners are empty
Factory stands , and the 3 mercanis cant sell ther biooptic..
so this factory nerver starts again, if not another trader starts it up with selling scanners.

seeing it also on URV stations, Food facorys and so long.

if this one times happen wit one or 2 factory who are essential to each.. both factorys stands after a while of playing...
hmm.. this can take days to manualy start up all this ^^

i came to check this, because im wonder, why one of my own factorys stands..
the Mass friegter was full of goods he apparently couldn't sell and didn't come to buy the resources he needed.
-->
so im checked a handfull of NPC factorys who also stood still and looked at the cargo and the orders of the frighters , what they are doing right now and the cargo of the frighters..
umpf...
same problem...

JESS 246 · Post by **JESS 246** » Fri, 6. Jul 18, 14:18

Hi All.

For the past few weeks maybe months all i've read on this is something not working etc and the game has totally packed up on me vanilla to dull buggy and not worth the play, with mods yes worth the play but now i find the game with mods even more full of bugs you add something and something else goes missing etc.

Don't get me wrong here i'm trying to point an observation on the whole thing.

It's quite clear the game has gong as far as it can by Egosoft and died thus Egosoft are making X4, though you mod authors are trying to keep this game going i commend you for your efforts but you are flogging a dead horse that was knackered from the very start.

The work you authors do have been exceptional though with few errors have made the game more enjoyable and trying to make a good thing out of bad deserves a medal and Egosoft should reward you for keeping the dead horse away from the glue factory.

I have stopped playing now for some time due to npc chat not working ships not doing their thing stations not getting fully build and that's just the tip of the iceberg, no i'm not blaming you authors of nods it's the game not excepting what you due.

To use a play on the words of a fictional doctor "IT'S DEAD JIM"

Marvin Martian · Post by **Marvin Martian** » Fri, 6. Jul 18, 14:52

with that attitude you must be pillar of society

but you are welcome to help, atm i do all alone here, so if something isn't prefect yet, especially for your so important Xenon Economy, feel free to fix stations and rewrite creepy AIs
i would like to see what always-perfect-results you can deliver

---

anyway, thanks to all who do report bugs or tell observations, some are more or less usefull to going on and find problems - also if i do not comment each line for a detailed analyse but mostly i try to test reports from all of you

JESS 246 · Post by **JESS 246** » Fri, 6. Jul 18, 18:26

Hi Marvin.

I hope you did not think what i said was a dig at you and all authors to give up far from it if it weren't for your efforts i would have given up a long time ago.

No i'm not a mod author only can make suggestions or point out bugs etc.

You have done a very good mod but like said i've stopped playing, yes it may be to bugs weather it in you mod or not, i would let you know what is wrong and play on to see the results.

But that's not the full reason as to why i have stopped playing, it that when the new X4 is released i will look at and play that with a fresh start, thus after 4220 hours of play on XR i wanted to forget all XR is or what was it all about, if you can understand that.

You keep up the good work and maybe see your work in X4.

Timianer · Post by **Timianer** » Sat, 7. Jul 18, 14:09

next bug.. hope helpfull ^^

i overwatched an NPC bofu factory, why its dosent work...
The Mass Nirane Shipp from this bufu station SELLS all Plankton .. so the faftory never starts up..
I supply plankton.. the ship starts. and sell it..

The Carco nyrane from the same Bufu factory trys to buy and sell Plasma GR Towers.. and so long.. nothing works ...
-------------------
next...
an DIY superstore and some other factorys havent Mass Carco ships.. so the ever run out or full.. they cant sell theyr armour plating or buy metals,ore .. if the havent enough.
-------------------
Absolutley no wonder, that the complet economy brokes, after a while.
the only think that helps the non Xenon NPCs are build new stations, because they start full.. but after a while all breaks if the NPCs havent enough money to build new.

At this piont i think, you must completley rewrite your Stations AI
The ships, who work for an NPC station and what they shuld do.
----
here im also take an braek
if this isnt fixed it make no sense to play another round.
thanks for your hard work an reading my often stupid posts

im only say, what im see ^^

Marvin Martian · Post by **Marvin Martian** » Sat, 7. Jul 18, 14:28

Can you please provide an savegame
Best at zone station/situation you observe

About points you report, in theory it can‘t be, the code isn‘t that changed that ships do anything that way

Timianer · Post by **Timianer** » Sat, 7. Jul 18, 20:58

ok in this scenario the station is the Bufu Starplex in Front of the skunk.

the cago nirane have theyr 60 Plasma GR Towers... what she cant trade ^^
and the Mass Nirane sells at the moment Spices to an Alc-Destille if you run shinza a while... it its on her way...

i have wait round an half hour in shinza.. sometime the mass nirane buys correct.. somtimes she sells ressources from the Bofu complex ...

aktive mods are
Fy by subscribe
Show me your skills
Station recycle and destroy
and now skunk jump.. to fast overwatch , what im ever seen ^^

Edit:
All DLCs deaktivatet..

Have Fun
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GaTddy ... sp=sharing

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun, 8. Jul 18, 09:47

Moin,

ist die Mod Storykompatibel bzw wie schaut es mit der Kampflastigkeit aus?

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

[WIP] X Rebirth: The New Frontier