Large ships and gates

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navlasop
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Large ships and gates

Post by navlasop » Tue, 19. Feb 19, 11:37

Running latest beta (2.0 beta 3) and only got the gate since 2.0 beta 1.
Have anyone else noticed that the large ships are missing the jump gates and accelerators?

They seem to be missing on purpose, and goes for ALL large ships, NPC or player owned, both when IS and OOS.

Usually what happens is they line up a couple degrees to the sides. then overshoot it, turns (slowly) spools up travel drive again (slowly) and then maybe goes through it.
More often then not they still "miss" and have to realign again. This is a horrible timewaste for such large ships.

EmperorDragon
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by EmperorDragon » Tue, 19. Feb 19, 14:25

L and XL ships enter the gates from the back to avoid collisions. Collisions don't cause serious damage but it can cause issues. I had an L miner jump quite literally into my Colossus just as I was about to enter the gate from the front, causing us to spin around like crazy. When the ships untangled, the L miner got knocked away 10000s of km at extreme velocity never to be seen or heard from again, it's out there somewhere...

I never had issues with AI-controlled ships struggling to enter gates. They do form a queued docking pattern at gates though, and ships can sometimes loiter around waiting for their turn to dock.

I have seen similar issues being reported so maybe I am just lucky. It may be worth reporting in the beta forum section.
“To be the first to enter the cosmos, to engage, single-handed, in an unprecedented duel with nature - could one dream of anything more?” - Yuri Gagarin

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navlasop
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by navlasop » Tue, 19. Feb 19, 16:39

Okay, so what you're saying is that it's intentional?
Egosoft have chosen to design them that way?

I can agree on it being safer IS, but it's so inefficient...my profitssss!

BrasatoAlBarolo
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo » Tue, 19. Feb 19, 17:10

Yep, it's intended. Because of highways too, I think.

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navlasop
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by navlasop » Tue, 19. Feb 19, 17:41

BrasatoAlBarolo wrote:
Tue, 19. Feb 19, 17:10
Yep, it's intended. Because of highways too, I think.
Aaah...the highways, i forgot about them :D
Okay i can see entering from the front could in theory cause issues with the high speed traffic.
Except to my eyes, a large ship still have more then enough room at the top to avoid smaller ships coming in from below?
Edit: XL i don't know, probabably not?

Karmaticdamage
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by Karmaticdamage » Wed, 20. Feb 19, 01:50

When you order a L/LX ship to move across the galaxy, they will plot their course as if they can use the highways to save time even though they can't use the highways. Try ordering a ship in eighteen billion to go to your HQ. Instead of taking the south gate and the following accelerator, they will go north to silent witness and follow the highway path all the way down to second contact. Taking forever to get through each gate along the way. L/XL ships should just barrel into the gates at full speed like M/S ships do when OOS.

GCU Grey Area
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by GCU Grey Area » Wed, 20. Feb 19, 02:40

Karmaticdamage wrote:
Wed, 20. Feb 19, 01:50
L/XL ships should just barrel into the gates at full speed like M/S ships do when OOS.
Not so sure that would be a good idea - could cause all sorts of traffic problems around busy gates if the player suddenly turned up & it wasn't an OOS situation any more.
Also when I'm flying a capital personally I do quite enjoy ignoring the usual rules for capitals & always use the convenient side of the gate. I have enough problems dodging all the L/XL traffic exiting busy gates, though can be quite entertaining hammering through traffic in big fast ship (my Condor on travel mode does about 7100m/s). However would not want to add to that by having AI flown L/XL ships also attempting to enter gates the same way I do when I get to the far side of each gate. Would be far too chaotic in busy sectors, happier if they just stick to the current capital ship traffic rules & go round the back.

lordmuck
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by lordmuck » Wed, 20. Feb 19, 02:46

Dont you just miss those times getting rammed in the butthole and destroyed by something bigger than you in X3 ?

pref
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by pref » Wed, 20. Feb 19, 02:49

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Wed, 20. Feb 19, 02:40
my Condor on travel mode does about 7100m/s
Could you upgrade engines on that ship? Or it's just from a chassis mod?
I was so happy i finally got some weapon mods to fully upgrade an ody and make it a personal ship, but could not mod the engines so i just gave up on the idea.

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grapedog
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by grapedog » Wed, 20. Feb 19, 03:56

lordmuck wrote:
Wed, 20. Feb 19, 02:46
Dont you just miss those times getting rammed in the butthole and destroyed by something bigger than you in X3 ?
It FOREVER made me go full speed through the gates, at the very edge of the gate... sometimes smashing into the gate itself.

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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by GCU Grey Area » Wed, 20. Feb 19, 04:01

pref wrote:
Wed, 20. Feb 19, 02:49
GCU Grey Area wrote:
Wed, 20. Feb 19, 02:40
my Condor on travel mode does about 7100m/s
Could you upgrade engines on that ship? Or it's just from a chassis mod?
I was so happy i finally got some weapon mods to fully upgrade an ody and make it a personal ship, but could not mod the engines so i just gave up on the idea.
Both engines & chassis have modifications installed.
As I recall could not do this to Colossus in my last game, so guess capital ship engine mods must have been added in the 2.0 beta.

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Belgarath
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by Belgarath » Wed, 20. Feb 19, 04:43

Look at it this way. If Cap Ships used the side of the gate that small and medium ships used, there would inevitably be collisions. While, at this time, it's not really a problem, what about when the Devs decide to enable collision damage? Ships would be lost left and right, it will rain frogs, dogs will sleep with cats, it'll be total anarchy and chaos!
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pref
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by pref » Wed, 20. Feb 19, 05:02

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Wed, 20. Feb 19, 04:01
Both engines & chassis have modifications installed.
As I recall could not do this to Colossus in my last game, so guess capital ship engine mods must have been added in the 2.0 beta.
Nice, thanks - the more i know about 2.0 the better it seems.
grapedog wrote:
Wed, 20. Feb 19, 03:56
lordmuck wrote:
Wed, 20. Feb 19, 02:46
Dont you just miss those times getting rammed in the butthole and destroyed by something bigger than you in X3 ?
It FOREVER made me go full speed through the gates, at the very edge of the gate... sometimes smashing into the gate itself.
lol.. thought i was the only weird guy always aiming for the edge of an empty gate without lethal collision damage - occasionally bumping back when i manage to hit the frame.

Falcrack
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by Falcrack » Wed, 20. Feb 19, 05:56

The incredibly slow navigation of L and XL ships through gates is one big reason why I am in favor of adding jump drives to these classes of ships.

lordmuck
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by lordmuck » Wed, 20. Feb 19, 13:40

Falcrack wrote:
Wed, 20. Feb 19, 05:56
The incredibly slow navigation of L and XL ships through gates is one big reason why I am in favor of adding jump drives to these classes of ships.
Totally !!

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navlasop
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by navlasop » Wed, 20. Feb 19, 21:57

Belgarath wrote:
Wed, 20. Feb 19, 04:43
Look at it this way. If Cap Ships used the side of the gate that small and medium ships used, there would inevitably be collisions. While, at this time, it's not really a problem, what about when the Devs decide to enable collision damage? Ships would be lost left and right, it will rain frogs, dogs will sleep with cats, it'll be total anarchy and chaos!
Why in the world would they enable (more) collision damage? Granted the collision damage at the moment is low, but if they enable "full" collision damage, we'll need another bounce script for sure :P

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Belgarath
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by Belgarath » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 03:05

I understand that, currently, collision damage is not enabled due to the bugged AI. You can crash into anything, gates, asteroids, other ships, etc. and the only thing that will happen is your shield being depleted. There will be no hull damage, though. That's why you and your AI controlled ships can go inside the asteroid part of the PHQ and not sustain any damage. Once the bugs are ironed out of the AI, full collision damage will be enabled, as it should be.
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caltrop
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by caltrop » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 11:08

Belgarath wrote:
Thu, 21. Feb 19, 03:05
I understand that, currently, collision damage is not enabled due to the bugged AI. You can crash into anything, gates, asteroids, other ships, etc. and the only thing that will happen is your shield being depleted. There will be no hull damage, though. That's why you and your AI controlled ships can go inside the asteroid part of the PHQ and not sustain any damage. Once the bugs are ironed out of the AI, full collision damage will be enabled, as it should be.
Hmmm, previous X games were never really able to iron out the bugs or other adverse game play effects so we had such gems as:

- unavoidable collisions at gates - often game over or reload territory when you die , lose a cap ship (or two) or end up at war...
- fighter wings die against capitals, or cant get close enough to shoot
- capital ships die against stations, or cant get close enough to shoot
- ships instantly destroyed when manually undocking
- miners die against asteroids when you decide to visit them
- station modules exploding because they were placed too closely
- ships dying when you use SETA as collision avoidance breaks
- capital ships being used as steam rollers to crush all opposition - ok that last one was fun but a bit too easy to do IMO^_^

And right now we have the complaints about L/XL ships being slow and useless because they go to the back of gates to...avoid collision damage

I can see why they disabled it tbh, and I can see why they are not rushing to reenable it as well :)

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navlasop
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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by navlasop » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 11:41

Belgarath wrote:
Thu, 21. Feb 19, 03:05
I understand that, currently, collision damage is not enabled due to the bugged AI. You can crash into anything, gates, asteroids, other ships, etc. and the only thing that will happen is your shield being depleted. There will be no hull damage, though. That's why you and your AI controlled ships can go inside the asteroid part of the PHQ and not sustain any damage. Once the bugs are ironed out of the AI, full collision damage will be enabled, as it should be.
Where have you read\heard that it's not enabled due to AI, and not due to design choice?
It seems great immersion wise, but yeah sounds like a recipe for disaster. As my Betty sometimes says "Autopilot epically failed"

Edit: I wouldn't mind a collision damage percentage choice, like Avorion has. Atleast then you can choose your poison :D

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Re: Large ships and gates

Post by Belgarath » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 14:53

03 December 2018: Build 1.20 (323307)

• Removed hull damage on collisions until the auto pilot has learned to fly around things!
I looked through the patch notes and didn't find any mention of turning collision damage back on.

You can find the patch notes here: viewtopic.php?f=180&t=402960
The new PC I just built for myself:
i5-13600k, 32GB DDR5 RAM, RTX 3060 12GB
It'll do until I can upgrade the graphics card.

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