Solo Xenon "I" Kill

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MHDriver
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Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by MHDriver » Fri, 22. Mar 19, 10:58

So this really isn't all that interesting but I have come to the conclusion that the method I used in the attached video is the only practical way to kill the Xeno Cap Ships without loosing millions in Destroyers. Also in the clip is an observation of two Xeno K working as a team in a way that players could never hope to get their AI ships to do. I actually had to disengage due to the coordination between these two.

https://youtu.be/8a_h_Eyk3tE
Last edited by MHDriver on Sat, 23. Mar 19, 06:58, edited 1 time in total.

adeine
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by adeine » Fri, 22. Mar 19, 11:47

Aside from the 'sit in blind spot and hold down mouse button' approach highlighted here, there's another way to kill infinite Xenon capital ships without taking any(*) losses:

1) Deploy a field of laser towers, or use cheap disposable fighters/defence drones (although the latter don't launch OOS) - alternatively you can let NPC ships fill this role
2) Vacate the area, you need to be OOS for this to work
3) Let the Xenon capital ships engage the laser towers or disposable fighters
4) Send in an attack squad of ~10 M ships equipped with mostly plasma weaponry & turrets

Due to how broken OOS balance is, the laser towers will destroy all the turrets on Ks/Is, and the attack fleet can finish the job without taking even a single hit. You can for the most part skip steps 1-3 with Ks, although if it's a fresh one you may have to micromanage slightly (retreat single ships as they take hits while the others continue to zap the turrets).

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Loneshade
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by Loneshade » Fri, 22. Mar 19, 12:38

To kill an "i", I only use a single destroyer of my own.
Works with either a stock Behemoth or stock Phoenix (no upgrades required) or an Odysseus with at least 50% shield buff. Additional Buffs make it easier, but aren't mandatory:

  • Engage the "I" straight from its side. Go straight in towards its prime laser bank, where there's 4 guns next to each other.
  • Use your main guns to take out these 4 turrets, completely destroying them all. (At about 1Km distance you should have a good aim)
  • Now RUN and get the F$%# out!!!

Additional hints: You want to make sure that 'only' the 8 guns from the side you're attacking hit you, while you're taking out the guns.
When running away, stay on the side you attacked, so the 'i' has only 4 big guns left to shoot you with. After 4-5 km most fire stops, at 8km you're completely safe.
A good idea is to strafe and change course a bit while engaging and while running. You want the i's guns to hit your shields or ship structure, not take out your turrets / engines.
If you did really well, you should have ~10% shields left after that maneuver. Don't worry if your ship gets damaged though, it makes no difference. As long as you're alive, there's no problem whatsoever.
  • sit tight at ~10km distance and recharge your shields.
  • Once full charged, re-engage the same side you previously attacked.
  • Use your main guns to take out the 2x2 turrets on its rear.
Well done... your 'i' is dead, it just doesn't know it yet....
  • Sit tight and wait 'till it explodes....

Additional hints: If done well, you should have ~30% shield capacity left. So it really doesn't matter if your own destroyer was damaged on the first run.
30% shield is enough to safely ignore whatever M-sized guns are left, though if bored feel free to take them out too now.
While you grind down the last HP of the 'i', you'll find that your crew has repaired most any damage you may have sustained in the first run.
I typically end up with a repair cost of somewhere between 5K and 50K credits, in order to fix up whatever repairs my crew wasn't able to complete.

If you need a video how its done let me know and I can make one. I bet my approach is faster than using an M6, even more so if you'd use a destroyer optimized for the task. I'd guess Lasers for large turrets (best choice for taking out hostile turrets) and small turrets with plasma (to help grind down the ship faster) might be a good choice but I didn't try that yet, as I usually use whatever destroyer is close.
Last edited by Loneshade on Thu, 28. Mar 19, 02:21, edited 3 times in total.

GCU Grey Area
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by GCU Grey Area » Fri, 22. Mar 19, 12:56

MHDriver wrote:
Fri, 22. Mar 19, 10:58
https://youtu.be/8a_h_Eyk3tE
Seems to me an incredibly tedious method of eliminating Xenon capitals. Certainly would not have the patience to do that myself. Glad there are MUCH quicker alternatives available.

Personally favour a fleet of destroyers (currently 8 Phoenix Vanguards, one of which I fly personally) & a pair of carriers (Condor Vanguards). Those carriers currently contain 48 fighters, mostly Buzzard Sentinels with a few Vanguards (leftovers from initial tests to see which variant survived better). The fighters are small, fast & agile enough to dodge most of the incoming fire & (critically) present in sufficient numbers to make it difficult for Xenon capitals to focus much fire on any particular vessel - periodically do have to buy replacements, however loss rates have been significantly lower than I initially anticipated. Incidentally 48 isn't a number I've chosen for any particular reason, it's just the current complement limited by availability of materials to mod engines, chassis & shields (forward thrust, max hull & capacity, respectively) - fully intend to add more in due course.

IMO fighters (& the carriers to transport & deploy them efficiently) are a worthwhile investment - they do a fantastic job of distracting enemy turrets away from my destroyers, which do the heavy lifting with regards to eliminating Xenon capital in an efficient manner (i.e.many, many times faster than a solo Nemesis, judging by your video).

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mr.WHO
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by mr.WHO » Fri, 22. Mar 19, 13:29

The one thing I hate right now is that most of big ships should at least have some kind of fighter escort or al least combat drones, yet Xenon currently doesn't even have a proper carrier and a frigate.

Ezarkal
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by Ezarkal » Fri, 22. Mar 19, 13:39

Why not just put 3 torpedo tubes on that Nemesis and take out their turrets and engines?
Then you order a few ships to finish the job.

Put all 3 torpedoes in different weapon group so you fire only one at a time. You almost always have one ready while the others are recharging.
Keep the 2 last weapons for dogfighting or whatever you want to.

It works on anything else. I can take out half the firepower out of a behemoth in a single pass.
With a bit of patience and tactics, it should work on an "I".
Humans are deuterostomes, which means that when they develop in the womb the first opening they develop is the anus.
This means that at one point you were nothing but an asshole.

Some people never develop beyond this stage.

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Tamina
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by Tamina » Fri, 22. Mar 19, 13:45

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Fri, 22. Mar 19, 12:56
[...]
That's how I am doing it as well. From my experience M ships are very fragile against K's and I's but - as you said - small fast agile S ships keep the turrets not only busy but are destroying the surface elements in the process, rendering the I to scrapmetal before the shields are down. On max view distance (graphics settings) it Looks amazing, too!
Destroyers are also able to keep distance that way and fire their main weapons.

I only have one Colossus and Behemoth each. I am losing about 1 (0-2) 500k-Credits-fighters per Xenon I that way.

I really like that fighters and (carriers) have a very practical use that way. Don't underestimate them.

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SPiDER
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by SPiDER » Fri, 22. Mar 19, 14:23

80 fighters eclipse,novas buzzards etc etc chew through an I or K IS OOS M ships kill quickest cerberus and minotaurs

Bozz11
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by Bozz11 » Fri, 22. Mar 19, 16:06

When playing like this you better just use cheat commands to erase the I.
Big ships need to have way more turrets. it"s not "normal" that you can just sit there and shoot it down
Or at least do it like in x3 where Capital ships actually had ships stored inside and launched them when under attack..

Sir Warwick
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by Sir Warwick » Fri, 22. Mar 19, 16:54

Just wait until you have a ship yard churning out maxed out destroyers by the dozen - Xenon (or anything else for that matter) ceases to be much of a concern once you have a hundred+ destroyers :)

It is still very surprising how long it takes 40 maxed out (heavy plasma turrets where possible) behemoth sentinels + 20 bombers with heavy torps to take down a single xenon. Capital weapons and torps do seem a bit useless.


Agree on the cap ships and their lack of turret coverage. I would expect a suitably kitted out destroyer to be pretty much instant death to any S ships (even a few dozen of them at the same time) within about 8Km and even a large squad of corvettes/frigates/bombers should expect very heavy losses within 4k.

I would expect upwards of 20 beam turret groups and 10+ large plasma heavy turret groups and still a decent number of missile and torpedo launchers as well and the primary weapons need a massive boost too.
Right now they are basically glorified fighters and try to fight like one (as much as a slow wallowing pig can).

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Nort The Fragrent
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by Nort The Fragrent » Fri, 22. Mar 19, 19:02

Just watched that boring video killing an Xenon, wow how dull, is that what you killers do?
Reminded me of an Icelandic beached whale killing back in the 1960’s, slowly cutting behind the head to bleed to death as it’s blood poured into the sea.

Xenon,
Poor Xenon, they are like the whales of our ocean, brutally killed for no good reason! Are you all Japanese and like a bit of whale meat?
Leave them alone, let them enjoy the space, we are one!


Peace brother, go in silence, speak no ill, and chill the darkness.

Why not join the emerging faction “ Kindness “

We are everywhere. :roll:

MHDriver
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by MHDriver » Sat, 23. Mar 19, 07:04

Talking smack is easy. Let's see your videos of your successful zero loss methods in action.. :sceptic:

Chris0132
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by Chris0132 » Sat, 23. Mar 19, 07:13

K's are pretty easy to just shoot up in a destroyer. Haven't tried an I but I would assume the same approach works, blow the turrets off and then pelt it with your turrets.

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Nort The Fragrent
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by Nort The Fragrent » Sat, 23. Mar 19, 08:04

Not fired a single shot so far, at level 30 with most factions. there is no need to fight. !

:roll:

Imperial Good
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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by Imperial Good » Sat, 23. Mar 19, 08:26

Easiest way is out of sector and to spam ships at it. Not only are Xenon L turrets much less effective out of sector, but Plasma is a lot more effective. For example 16 L Destroyers with full plasma loadout out of sector will quickly strip down all weapon systems on the I and even if they lose some of their own they will replace them far faster than the Is can. The problem only starts with massive I+K fleets (possibly with P, M and Ns) since they could potentially strip enough weapon systems to reduce the effectiveness of your fleet. This is where mixing in tanky frigates like Ospreys is useful since not only will they come in later due to their slow speed (no risk of being killed), but they have 4 plasma turrets and 2 plasma guns which cannot be reduced so will keep stripping away at the Is and Ks while any of your lost turrets recover.

In sector is an entirely different problem. You do not want to be on the receiving end of any of the I's L turret banks as each bank has fire power similar to a Behemoth. S ships work well at distracting the turrets but losses can be expected. I would imagine the fastest approach is to use a Missile Nemesis (5 launchers) to pepper the L turret banks and engines as quickly as possible to get them down. Once they are down one can send in a fleet to help process the shields and hull.
Chris0132 wrote:
Sat, 23. Mar 19, 07:13
K's are pretty easy to just shoot up in a destroyer. Haven't tried an I but I would assume the same approach works, blow the turrets off and then pelt it with your turrets.
Unlike K, the I has insane L turret banks. Each side is covered by at least 9 in a 3, 2, 4 configuration or something like that. Their combined DPS will mince any L destroyer before long. One either has to rely on the superior range of the Main Batteries or do a hit and run tactic as described above.

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Re: Solo Xenon "I" Kill

Post by graphicboy » Sat, 23. Mar 19, 14:41

Loneshade wrote:
Fri, 22. Mar 19, 12:38
This. I don't get what the fuss is about. Some of these fleet sizes are silly.

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