Some space diversity and justice

[Tenebris Messorem]

English is not my native language. I apologize in advance for the mistakes, but I hope the essence of what was said will be clear.
In X-Universe lore Argon Federation was presented as a society with mixed culture - asian and european. Japanese - is a main language. Similar situation in Firefly universe, but main language - Сhinese. You can see hieroglyphs everywhere, pirates have yakuza-style tattoo, neon signs resemble Tokyo with a cyberpunk vibes, characters have Japanese first and last names. In X4 Foundations atmospere gone, lore gone, everything gone, but now we have Space Diversity! And i'm not alone who see it.
I conducted an experiment - I flew to the stations and counted the number of NPCs and most of them (more than 70%) were black. I almost always saw this picture. (The screenshot is not mine)
https://i.imgur.com/HckmAWN.jpg
And some similar messages.

https://i.imgur.com/DmGzWp7.png
https://i.imgur.com/qMZ8IzF.png
https://i.imgur.com/itikCp6.png
https://i.imgur.com/BmjJv3R.png
https://i.imgur.com/C8wEzBF.png

I'm not racist, but you throw in my face alpha-build X4 (bugs, missing text in encyclopedia, descriptions and more) without content - economy and war systems incomplete (and not deep as in X3), main quest is an placeholder, with mediocre ships design - all races in past games have unique style ships and stations, and almost all ships looked great, even X-rebirth have had great capital-class ships. And now we can't identify ships because they all looks equally (and argon capital freighter (giant box) looks terrible). In X3 you can see japanese hieroglyphs on a space stations. In X4 most text in English. And all this reminds me of a situation with Mass Effect Andomeda - disgusting game full of bugs, but with Space Divesity.

X-games is my favorite spacesims, earlier games on release-date also have many bugs. And dev-team for a long time supported game by a lot of patches. That's why i love Egosoft and X-Universe. But now series loses something for which I loved. And many other fans see that. "I do not trade a soldier for a marshal. " This quote is attributed to Stalin. But Egosoft trade history and atmospere for casuals and SJW. It was worth it?


{Images posted directly to the forums should not be greater than 640x480 or 100kb, oversize image now linked - Terre}

[mr.WHO]

I don't think this is intentionally done by Egosoft. I hate political correctness and recent "diversity BS", but I honestly think this must be some kind of bad RNG code (I heard that in one recent beta we had explosion of blue hair argon fenames - I bet someone would see push for feminist politics here ).

More than NPC skin color I rather question NPC choice of clothing - most of them looks like space hobos than qualified crew personel.

My personal favorite is the NPC that looks like Jason Statham:
https://www.etonline.com/sites/default/ ... 315078.jpg
While it looks badass I don't know, if fighter pilots would like to fly in fancy suit.

It's a shame because normal pilot suits and marine suits seems very nice.
I'd love some proper crew uniforms for captain and deck crew - preferably with player colors and logo on them:
https://m50d.github.io/fooling.jpg

[Fenris321]

It's a shame because normal pilot suits and marine suits seems very nice.
I'd love some proper crew uniforms for captain and deck crew - preferably with player colors and logo on them:
https://m50d.github.io/fooling.jpg

One of the stats is for how many clothing mods you've used, so hopefully that will be added at some point and not cut.

[Rei Ayanami]

I didn't want to say anything, but when i started playing X4 after release i too was kind of thrown off by the sudden huge amount of black people among Argons/Terrans, especially with stereotypical black-african-dreadlocks style. It completely goes against what Argons used to look like in previous X titles. And it's not that i care about a real-life persons skin color or their hairstyle, but i care about ingame-lore consistency, and to my knowledge there is no in-game explanation to this rather drastic and sudden change. And evolution-wise ~50 years or even 200 years is not nearly enough to change almost an entire species skin color by such an amount.

I don't think this is intentionally done by Egosoft. I hate political correctness and recent "diversity BS", but I honestly think this must be some kind of bad RNG code (I heard that in one recent beta we had explosion of blue hair argon fenames - I bet someone would see push for feminist politics here ).

I never thought of connecting it to current diversity politics, though, but i hope that it's not true. I despise modern political-correctness and forced-diversity culture and what it has done to the modern gaming industry and entertainment industry as a whole.

[nickolaiproblem]

English is not my native language. I apologize in advance for the mistakes, but I hope the essence of what was said will be clear.
In X-Universe lore Argon Federation was presented as a society with mixed culture - asian and european. Japanese - is a main language. Similar situation in Firefly universe, but main language - Сhinese. You can see hieroglyphs everywhere, pirates have yakuza-style tattoo, neon signs resemble Tokyo with a cyberpunk vibes, characters have Japanese first and last names. In X4 Foundations atmospere gone, lore gone, everything gone, but now we have Space Diversity! And i'm not alone who see it.
I conducted an experiment - I flew to the stations and counted the number of NPCs and most of them (more than 70%) were black. I almost always saw this picture. (The screenshot is not mine)
https://i.imgur.com/HckmAWN.jpg
And some similar messages.

https://i.imgur.com/DmGzWp7.png
https://i.imgur.com/qMZ8IzF.png
https://i.imgur.com/itikCp6.png
https://i.imgur.com/BmjJv3R.png
https://i.imgur.com/C8wEzBF.png

I'm not racist, but you throw in my face alpha-build X4 (bugs, missing text in encyclopedia, descriptions and more) without content - economy and war systems incomplete (and not deep as in X3), main quest is an placeholder, with mediocre ships design - all races in past games have unique style ships and stations, and almost all ships looked great, even X-rebirth have had great capital-class ships. And now we can't identify ships because they all looks equally (and argon capital freighter (giant box) looks terrible). In X3 you can see japanese hieroglyphs on a space stations. In X4 most text in English. And all this reminds me of a situation with Mass Effect Andomeda - disgusting game full of bugs, but with Space Divesity.

X-games is my favorite spacesims, earlier games on release-date also have many bugs. And dev-team for a long time supported game by a lot of patches. That's why i love Egosoft and X-Universe. But now series loses something for which I loved. And many other fans see that. "I do not trade a soldier for a marshal. " This quote is attributed to Stalin. But Egosoft trade history and atmospere for casuals and SJW. It was worth it?


{Images posted directly to the forums should not be greater than 640x480 or 100kb, oversize image now linked - Terre}

The color of npcs seems less important compared to this "alpha-build X4 (bugs, missing text in encyclopedia, descriptions and more) without content" does it not
If its a worry you can always get paranid or teladi officers
Also if there its not space diversity because its inherently more argon dark skinned npcs than not that's not space diversity or SJW anything. Its just a mistake on ego's part which they either will just add more racial variation.

[Kernel Panic]

The NPC models have been always been widow dressing in these games. It's just something to look at and it's always looked good enough that I have never felt the need to complain about it. I don't really think spending the time and effort to change them is a good idea. IMNSHO even a mod that changed them would be a waste of time. Go commit mass murder on the Xenons if you want make the X Universe a better place. After all, it's what they are there for.

While we are talking about non-issues, I do have question for the Devs. Does Bofu taste like chicken?

[Olfrygt]

Well the main reason for that post was the lost depth and lore.

Just another easier to understand and non racial example. Why are ANT/ARG/TEL/MIN/PAR teladi/argon/paranid on the so called xenophobic HOP stations? Why are there argon news? Why are all the letters there in english (it should be japanese or even better some cryptic paranid glyphs).

X4 is cool, but it lost so many small things made the old game so good. Lore and depth are important.

[Tomonor]

Yeppers, lore was kind of lost in X4, but resources were probably scarce in that department when the game was being developed as opposed to Rebirth, which was so lore heavy that over-explained way too many things. It reminded me of the "Breasts" article on Wookiepedia.

[nage83]

I chose to play as Paranid yet I still see only blacks (if it's Argon) on Paranid stations! I would rather see no Argons at all in Paranid space!

Anyway what happened to all white/asian Argons Egosoft? Being racist much?

[MakerLinux]

I am just wondering how long this thread will survive. I don't know the propensity of moderators to follow SJW ideology, but usually all it needs in most forums is some post with stronger words and the thread is deleted.

For the record, I find the discussion relevant and necessary and it has been pretty civilized for the moment. I live in Brazil, in a rather mixed-race environment - my wife is black and I am white - and for starters, we both were initially uneasy with the excessive proportion of black people in the game universe. Their clothing also seems completely out of place, specially considering earlier X games and X Universe books -- the "gang member" apparel does not seem right. This particular trend seemed to please U.S. players, where this is more common. Unfortunately Egosoft seems to have sacrificed the lore to please a particular audience. I wonder if it really helped the sales, since they do not advertise this?

That said, once it's done I think there will be much more resistance to reversing it. And I deeply lament that the diversity fix mod has been removed from moddb... I have seen that the steam entry for the mod in the workshop (which I praised at the time) was removed too. That's not good at all. The world has become too intolerant of differing viewpoints.

[Socratatus]

I have no problem with whites and blacks togther we had it right in the `80s and early `90s- Now it`s gone insane. I hate the modern sjw `diversity` bs crap, which isn`t even really diversity at all, but a kind of `borg` attitude of `everyone must think the same, no different views or you`re RACIST/SEXIST?blah, blah!`. And yes, I noticed the large number of blacks in the game that appears to override any other Humans. Don`t forget the push on feminazism though in today`s sjwism.



p.s. By the way I`m black. If I can be annoyed by it then you know these Devs are just mostly whites trying to make up for some `guilt` complex that sjws have shoved down their throats. I had to recently tell a white friend of mine that he had nothing to feel guilty for, as all peoples of all races have done bad things in the past, not just whites, not just men, but women too. No one is free of sin, especially not these feminists and sjws.

Rant over.

That said, you can start as a female or male in game, but not as a black guy... hmmmm.

[Buzz2005]

dont you all think that maybe this is not devs intention? a bug or just a placeholder like many other things in the game???

just outright attacking devs for SJW bull is so off putting for this forum im kind of surprised CBJ has not put out the fire yet

its not like the game has only black NPC in the game, there are a lot of models

if you want a SJW bs example in games just look at subnautica where a dev outright asked on Twitter do you want a black or women character or do you want us do work on core game

[MakerLinux]

dont you all think that maybe this is not devs intention? a bug or just a placeholder like many other things in the game???

Saying this is part of the problem. Bringing this matter into discussion is usually forbidden, limited or depending on where, censored.
The OP is sort of a bug report, you might look at it this way. But some people are poised to make a cause out of it (against it, in all likelihood).

just outright attacking devs for SJW bull is so off putting for this forum im kind of surprised CBJ has not put out the fire yet

I don't think of it like an attack. I think we are raising hypotheses. We don't know what's up at Egosoft and what would be their reasons for doing that on purpose, if it is on purpose.

its not like the game has only black NPC in the game, there are a lot of models

Sure, that's what we are discussing here, the proportions. Now that you say it, does anyone know how many models there are, and how many of them are each race? That would be an interesting gauge to see if the in-game NPC generator is deviating from the model types proportion.

[Horux]

Oh dear, the argument with the lore is a little bit problematic. First of all, in the past in many culture black people were not really representated in respect to their real life numbers, so I think the same reason is in the past of X. Then there is the biological lore problem, that in the future more people will be "black", just due to the mix. So the almost complete white X universe made no sense, even if people say Japanese is the language, language does not repesent skin color.

And then in the end, it is really a problem for you that are there so many black people? What do you think black people think, if they watch a film or play a game, and almost everyone is white in it. Probably 50% of the worl population is not white.
In my opinion everyone complaining about too many black people are reasons for all the diversity stuff. The same is for men complaining about women working in their fields of work.

We all need to accept, that the world is changing and also our society. And in no way is this change a bad one.

Maybe ES will implement some more white charakters, but then hopefully not in a way to reverse everything, because this would be a bad step back in history.
What we need is more "mixed" skins. Because at the moment the world is only black and white.

[LameFox]

I recall at one point they mentioned in patch notes that Split had been spawning disproportionately female. If there is any sort of imbalance at work beyond pure chance here, I think it is more likely a bug than some weird decision to favour the race whose models still sometimes look as if their skin is made of mercury when they stand under a bright light.

[Rei Ayanami]

Then there is the biological lore problem, that in the future more people will be "black", just due to the mix.

True. but what is it, ~80 years since X-BTF? Brennan arrives in the X-universe in the year 2912 and the gate network stabilized (which is the start of X4, correct me if i'm wrong) is in 2990. That's biologically not nearly enough for such a drastic change in human beings... Heck, it's an even far smaller timeframe when you look at the timeframe and NPC-changes between X:R and X4.

And then in the end, it is really a problem for you that are there so many black people? What do you think black people think, if they watch a film or play a game, and almost everyone is white in it. Probably 50% of the worl population is not white.

It's not about them being black, it's about consistency. If the Argons were mostly black people since X-BTF and it stood that way, nobody would raise an eyebrow.
But if they were pretty much 100% black in X-BTF and suddenly in X4 they're 80% white then it'd be a change that does not make any sense (i'm sure in that case, because of double standards, such a change would even be called racist/white-washing).

That being said, i think we shouldn't do a political debate here, but look at it from an ingame-perspective:
It's about the game world in X4 being inconsistent with previous games. Heck, i don't give a damn that it's Argons/Humans. I'd complain the same if it was the Teladi: If the in X:Rebirth almost-all greenish Teladi suddenly had 80% yellow-pink checkered skin color X4 i'd also go "Hey, wait a minute...".

[Horux]

Then there is the biological lore problem, that in the future more people will be "black", just due to the mix.

True. but what is it, ~80 years since X-BTF? Brennan arrives in the X-universe in the year 2912 and the gate network stabilized (which is the start of X4, correct me if i'm wrong) is in 2990. That's biologically not nearly enough for such a drastic change in human beings... Heck, it's an even far smaller timeframe when you look at the timeframe and NPC-changes between X:R and X4.

And then in the end, it is really a problem for you that are there so many black people? What do you think black people think, if they watch a film or play a game, and almost everyone is white in it. Probably 50% of the worl population is not white.

It's not about them being black, it's about consistency. If the Argons were mostly black people since X-BTF and it stood that way, nobody would raise an eyebrow.
But if they were pretty much 100% black in X-BTF and suddenly in X4 they're 80% white then it'd be a change that does not make any sense (i'm sure in that case, because of double standards, such a change would even be called racist/white-washing).

That being said, i think we shouldn't do a political debate here, but look at it from an ingame-perspective:
It's about the game world in X4 being inconsistent with previous games. Heck, i don't give a damn that it's Argons/Humans. I'd complain the same if it was the Teladi: If the in X:Rebirth almost-all greenish Teladi suddenly had 80% yellow-pink checkered skin color X4 i'd also go "Hey, wait a minute...".

1.The lore problem starts with X-Btf, as you said it is in ~2900 this is 800 years from now, no way everyone is white in this future or I do not want to be part of this future.

2.As I said, the problem is and will always the debate: In past culture black people where underrepresented, therefore if we continue all lore in culture, black people will never increase, because in the past... . Actually, I really doubt, that people would almoust nearly complain as much about yellow Teladi or white paranids as people complain about black people.

[Pesanur]

Lol, apparently my game universe have been generated a little different, for male humans, most of them are white. What i get are far more women that men. But yes, between the female humans, most are black.

I recall at one point they mentioned in patch notes that Split had been spawning disproportionately female. If there is any sort of imbalance at work beyond pure chance here, I think it is more likely a bug than some weird decision to favour the race whose models still sometimes look as if their skin is made of mercury when they stand under a bright light.

I didn't see yet any male Split in the game.

[LameFox]

I recall at one point they mentioned in patch notes that Split had been spawning disproportionately female. If there is any sort of imbalance at work beyond pure chance here, I think it is more likely a bug than some weird decision to favour the race whose models still sometimes look as if their skin is made of mercury when they stand under a bright light.

I didn't see yet any male Split in the game.

Come to think of it, I don't remember coming across any either... but then, I only recognize them when they talk about themselves in the 3rd person anyway, so maybe there were some and I didn't notice.

[Nort The Fragrent]

Interesting reactions to a colour! Yip! PC is over rated and over driven. They are what they are.
I alway go to Argon prime, to one of my stations to pick up a new Manager for my next station. Not for there skin colour!
I am looking for a woman, one with a nice voice. As that is who you hear directing the traffic. Pick the right one and your station traffic controller is adorable.

Now as we are a space travelling species we need to mix it up more. How about a Teldi-Argon breed. They could be not green, but a pasty cream colour! With dreadlocks. Or a Piranid-Boron child ! A three eyed slime fish.

And as for clothing, these Teladi need to get dressed, I don't know where to look! Averting my eye !

Customised helmets.
Change the adds on the highways to include my logo.
And some of the ship colours are just plane dull, One or two look ok, but the rest are drab.

Keep the weathered looking woman with the cleavage, and a gruff voice. She reminds me of my Mother in law . I stay well Clear of her !