Highways = I wont be playing

[gbjbaanb]

I really liked the Toride system in XR simply because it had absolutely no highways, but it definitely made it a pain to transit through.

This highlights the problem with highways:

If you have highways and no means to go fast and navigate outside of them, then sectors without highways are a PiTA.

If you have a means to go fast and navigate those sectors, then highways become irrelevant.

[Solflame]

The thing is, Highways allow for large explorable sectors and proper large-scale space combat, as long as the highways don't get you everywhere you need to go. Before all we had was either sectors that were basically just a small area which could be crossed relatively quickly, or those freaking huge Terran or Aldrin sectors people hated.

Remember, the sectors in X-Rebirth were usually BIGGER than Terran/Aldrin sectors in X3. X4 sectors might be a bit smaller but I bet they're still pretty damn large. By having highways that transit you between gates (which is how it looks) you can quickly "pass through" an area, whereas stations might be built way away from the highway to be closer to resources. Of course, if you can get right next to the highway you can get lots of customers, but the cost for building there will be high...

Besides, we have travel drive, which is much more efficient than boosting and will help us get where we need to go, plus SETA which is always nice.

[Vandragorax]

By having highways that transit you between gates (which is how it looks) you can quickly "pass through" an area, whereas stations might be built way away from the highway to be closer to resources. Of course, if you can get right next to the highway you can get lots of customers, but the cost for building there will be high...

This is put very nicely and I agree this is how highways will look in X4, from all we've seen so far. They are a means to travel through an area more quickly than other means, but there will still be a LOT of incentives to travel 'off the beaten path' at it were!

Certainly highways won't be the same as in X:R, where they would connect every zone and groups of stations.

[Honved]

Of course, if you can get right next to the highway you can get lots of customers, but the cost for building there will be high...

Why would it be high? There's more than enough room to build 1000 stations within spitting distance of the highways, so there should be almost no "real estate" cost no matter you built it. Price is a function of supply and demand, and there's an almost limitless supply of space near the highways, and essentially infinite at greater distances.

[BlackDog]

I think i recall seeing somthing about how building a station in different areas would cost varried amounts, since its not exactly "your" territory, at least...not yet. Thus I assume youd have to pay some kind of fee, kindof like EVE online, build anywhere in High Security space and you pay taxes and fee's, build in low sec and your paying much MUCH less, and build in Null sec, and there is zero tax and Zero fee

Somthing about building far away from areas costing much less, but also being at higher risk for attack of pirates, or just being attacked by other factions as you encroach on their territory.

[Alan Phipps]

From the X4 devs' Q&A Sticky:

Q. Do you always have to pay for a lot (building place) or can you also take it by force?

A. It is actually not even necessary to use force. You always have the choice to place a lot. You can always place a lot in a sector and do so without a license but that is not liked by the races. The game doesn't distinguish between doing this for military outposts or for economic stations. So in theory you can also go into the middle of the Argon territory and just start building a station. But if you do this without a license, then the Argon will attack you and that will of course lead to you suffering a loss in reputation. So the question is, if or where you want to do that.

[Tenlar Scarflame]

From the X4 devs' Q&A Sticky:

Q. Do you always have to pay for a lot (building place) or can you also take it by force?

A. It is actually not even necessary to use force. You always have the choice to place a lot. You can always place a lot in a sector and do so without a license but that is not liked by the races. The game doesn't distinguish between doing this for military outposts or for economic stations. So in theory you can also go into the middle of the Argon territory and just start building a station. But if you do this without a license, then the Argon will attack you and that will of course lead to you suffering a loss in reputation. So the question is, if or where you want to do that.

Interesting! Missed that detail.

If you build your station way off the beaten paths, at a respectable distance from anything that could detect you, are you still certain to be attacked?

[nemesis1982]

... Price is a function of supply and demand, and there's an almost limitless supply of space near the highways, and essentially infinite at greater distances...

In price hasn't been suply and demand for a long time!

I also think it'd be appropriate to look at it as buying a permit.

[Alan Phipps]

"I also think it'd be appropriate to look at it as buying a permit."

That's probably it. In other words, a way of linking unmolested building and property ownership to having and maintaining a high reputation with the local dominant faction - maybe.

[Solflame]

That was my understanding as well. If you don't have the permit to build, it's a hostile act. Especially since the AI does not differentiate between economic and military stations, according to devs, so they'll react the same way whether you drop a garrison in the middle of a trade route or a station that supplies a necessary ware.

You might be able to get away w/ an illegal station out in an off-the-grid asteroid field, but you put it right next to a highway and you'll have a carrier group knocking on your door within a few minutes. With nukes.

[nemesis1982]

Oohh they bring you free nukes?

[Honved]

Oohh they bring you free nukes?

Yes, and the best part is, they're fully guaranteed for the rest of your life, and pretty much EXACTLY as long, plus or minus a few milliseconds.

I guess the idea of "taxes" in the form of a permit, to pay for security, makes a lot of sense. I can understand why they wouldn't differentiate between military and commercial stations, because it's not difficult to launch military actions from a non-military station, brought in gradually in the guise of commercial cargo and assembled on site.

I'm reminded of the ME-108 "express mail plane", prior to WWII while Germany was forbidden to build military aircraft, which was NOT AT ALL a "fighter plane", even if it did happen to have mounting brackets in the wings with holes which exactly matched those on a machinegun. "No, that's NOT an Argon Collosus, it's just a harmless cargo ship which JUST HAPPENS to possess a vague similarity in shape.....and no, those repair patches where the gun turrets would be are purely conicidental." (The gun turrets and armament are already at the station, sent previously as cargo a month ago....as well as a couple dozen Argon Nova variants that showed up as unarmed traders, and somehow managed to never leave the station.)

[Karvat]

Highways are necessary to travel large distances in a short amount of time, in XR for example, sectors like Toride were inconvenient to travel without, so please shut up because if in the future we want from egosoft more and more large and rich sectors, then they can not remove them or not implement a rapid navigation system

[spankahontis]

My problem with Highways in XR was the green/blue lines criss crossing all over space. and the stupid tailgating mini game.

What bothered me was most those ships were procedurally generated IN the Highway to make the mini-game.
I don't mind dodging traffic in a highway, but I want to know that these ships came from a factory, were bought by an NPC and flies to random locations like a normal person.
They made this mini-game (Which was even worse Pre-2.0, that 9xGrid square lane) was horrible.

The thing is, Highways allow for large explorable sectors and proper large-scale space combat, as long as the highways don't get you everywhere you need to go. Before all we had was either sectors that were basically just a small area which could be crossed relatively quickly, or those freaking huge Terran or Aldrin sectors people hated.

Oh yeah! I completely forgot about Aldrin, I HATED that Sector, would not set foot in it, That's a place where people wouldn't be complaining about a Highway, if one was put there.
The distance between Accelerators in each corner of Aldrin was unreal.

Good point there!

The thing is, Highways allow for large explorable sectors and proper large-scale space combat, as long as the highways don't get you everywhere you need to go.

Absolutely!

You wouldn't see a Highway in the middle of the Amazon Rainforest.
Highways in X games should always be about establishing civilization in a region of space.

For example the Wild West, you could only get to a place by Horse and Cart.
Then they build saloons, general stores and homes for people to live.
Then the Town Grows in size and require a much better mode of transport for ever increasing demand for wares and basics.
Government builds Better Roads, a Rail Network and the town grows to something more established.

That's what Highways need to be, they need to be sections of space that have already been explored, settled with a large population that needs those Trains and better highways.

The outskirts is still the Wild West waiting to be discovered and settled in, no dirtroads, no trains, just you on your horse looking for some place to settle as your own..

[Falcrack]

My problem with Highways in XR was the green/blue lines criss crossing all over space. and the stupid tailgating mini game.

What bothered me was most those ships were procedurally generated IN the Highway to make the mini-game.
I don't mind dodging traffic in a highway, but I want to know that these ships came from a factory, were bought by an NPC and flies to random locations like a normal person.

This is one of the biggest things I hated about highways in rebirth as well. That, and tailgating.