Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

[spankahontis]

I know it's probably been said already, but I personally like the jumpdrive IF it's limited to capital ships only.

To me this has always been the way: Smaller ships are cost effective because they fit a lot into a tiny package. The tradeoff being they have limited range. This is where capital ships come in. They are able to transport the smaller ships around quickly, with the tradeoff being that they are extremely expensive for the "output" they provide (terrible mobility, low firepower for the cost).

That being said, I can see the reasoning behind the decision to remove it. It really does create a different type of strategy with placement of fleets/stations. It will also probably create a more steady expansion when you can't just move fleets around willy-nilly, while also helping keep vulnerable sectors protected (since enemy fleets can't just bypass static defenses with jumpdrives).

The reason behind it is the Enemy Fleet has to conquer the sector 1 zone at a time, you would have to fortify the Jump Gate with static defences to weaken the enemy advance.
They would then have to march on to every station in your sector to Wipe away/Claim (I hope) every station.
The Core Sectors will be heavily fortified with a larger fleet presence.

Jumpdrives take away that strategy, jumping anywhere with a beacon raid and then jump out before their response forces can find you.
Also being attacked by a superior force and just jumping out of harms way is kind of immersion breaking to me.
You need that Risk/Reward factor in a War, place your fleets strategically and meet your foe knowing the damage will be minimal on your side and highly costly on theirs.
Jumping about where you want robs you of that decision making, if anything I feel it's anti-THINK cause it robs you of that feel that you're an Admiral placing you pieces on the board like a game of chess and countering what your opponent throws at you.

[lplates]

This kind of strategy relies on AI ships also being unable to just spawn in anywhere, which will hopefully also be a thing.

If ships have to come from the economy then hopefully they also have to launch from shipyards which means means from behind the enemies front line.

[gbjbaanb]

It's not a "must have space gadget" though, not at all. This is a game and there are other methods of space travel besides magically disappearing and reappearing an entire fleet in any place at any time. There are LOADS of sci-fi books/games/films etc. where instant travel like that is impossible. FTL might even BE impossible in our universe for all we know, it's not a guarantee that Humanity will eventually have FTL travel even millions of years into the future.

It is, if FTL is impossible, its only 6000 years travel to the nearest star, let alone anywhere you want to go to.

eg. Voyager 2 is travelling at 40,000 mph, and it'll take it 296,000 years to arrive at Sirius (on a fly-by, stopping is not an option)

FTL, in some form, has to exist for galaxy-spanning space games to work.

[MegaJohnny]

The jumpgates are the FTL, though. They don't have to be the only FTL, but they fulfill the requirement.

[Tenlar Scarflame]

The jumpgates are the FTL, though. They don't have to be the only FTL, but they fulfill the requirement.

Yup, those and the highways and transorbital accelerators. The old JD was *a* solution for faster-than-light travel, but there are a whole bunch of others that already canonically exist. And the highways and transorbital accelerators even suggest that the Commonwealth species are approaching a point where they figure out a cost-effective way to travel and settle outside of the Ancients' rat maze.

[ballti]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pryZ-2P ... f&index=25

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

While jumpdrives are nice, I think it will be interesting to not have them in X4. While yes, FTL should exist in order to make galaxy-spanning empires viable, the jumpgates already fill that position quite handily, as was stated above. On top of that, jumpdrives were really just an extension of the current gate network. You couldn't go anywhere with a normal jumpdrive that didn't have a gate nearby (i.e. Terran space), and a UFD was unpredictable, and you couldn't return to the sectors.

I'm looking forward to experiencing the new tactical layer that is offered by the lack of jumpdrives, since it applies to the AI as well, leveling the playing field. No longer than they just appear anywhere. Too many times, while playing LU, I put down a humble Solar Plant, only to have Phanon jump in a full carrier group to destroy it. This makes gate chokepoints viable, and really allows you to control more.

Plus, you know someone's going to make a mod for it anyway. It's just a matter of time.

[DaMuncha]

If we fly into a gate the wrong way will we come out the wrong side at the other end?

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

If we fly into a gate the wrong way will we come out the wrong side at the other end?

No, you still come out the proper way. In my rush to escape a hostile fleet, I flew my fighter through the outward side of a gate (the side not facing the sector). It accelerated me backwards, then I loaded into the next sector facing the right way.

I think the race that built the gate network were advanced enough to not only create a galaxy-spanning gate network (complete with Hub), but could also account for user stupidity.

[Drakuel]

Game design, is hard.. To weigh realism against, what is fun or what will work for a game, has to be some of the toughest design decisions developers have to make.

I think jump drives would hurt there other game design goals to much with this iteration on their series. I feel it is the right decision, just from a space strategy sense I look no further than comparing stellaris, one of the best space strategies around, who also had to remove drives and systems after launch, due to the negative impact it caused to their flow of their game design...

I found them removing those drives, and other changes made the game 10x better and fit their original vision better on faction strategy.

[gbjbaanb]

Stellaris removed them because it made the AI easier to code (and still ended up with jump drive as a researchable tech). Sword of the Stars, ob the other hand, had many different types of travel and worked very well indeed.

X4 should be like X3 only improved, smoother, faster, more complex and more features. If they gave us that, nobody would be unhappy. I fear we're getting X:R2 instead.

[Drakuel]

Stellaris removed them because it made the AI easier to code (and still ended up with jump drive as a researchable tech). Sword of the Stars, ob the other hand, had many different types of travel and worked very well indeed.

X4 should be like X3 only improved, smoother, faster, more complex and more features. If they gave us that, nobody would be unhappy. I fear we're getting X:R2 instead.

There will always be a counter to any point, then recounter.. It was done more than just for AI, jumdrives still even if researched which starts a crisis event, cant jump over enemy borders, even if you own one claim 8n the middle of them, cant jump there.

That is besides the point and not my main meaning behind my opinion. Egosoft has a vision of how they want their game to play, feel or flow in this design, in this instance I like the decision.

One can always argue that put as many options in a game and let players, turn them off and on as how they want to play it... At the end of the day, it is their game and their risk and hard work making it... For me I understand the position they took and I will enjoy trying out this design..

[Alci]

X4 should be like X3 only improved, smoother, faster, more complex and more features. If they gave us that, nobody would be unhappy. I fear we're getting X:R2 instead.

R2 with X2 features will be just fine

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

I think it will be interesting to see how the game goes with no jumpdrive. As mentioned earlier, it can be too much of a cheese. One idea I always wanted to try was to use a UFD to jump to a sector, plant a Jump Beacon, and build my base there. With no gates, I would be untouchable, and with a Jump Beacon, only my ships could get there. However, I believe I read somewhere that UFD sectors are not saved once you leave.

Anyway, not ever space game needs a jumpdrive to be great. Look at Freelance. The main methods of getting around are:
1. Cruise Mode: basically like the Travel Drive they showed in the livestreams. Makes you go fasta.
2. Trade Lanes: Functionally similar to the highways, except they go in a straight line, and can be disrupted by damaging one of the relays. Faster than Cruise Mode.
3. Gates: Think of these like the Gates in X3. These connect to other areas of space too distant to reach with the first two modes.

There are no jumpdrives in the game, at least not that you can get, if I recall.

The prequel, Starlancer, did have jumpdrives, of a sort. However, they seemed based on acceleration, rather than traveling through subspace.


On a tangent, I loved the atmosphere in Freelancer. You could hear other ships talking to each other. Transport ships would say where they came from, and where they were going. Law enforcement ships would announce scans. Ships would request docking clearance. At gates, stations, and planetary rings, you often had to wait in line, as other ships before you were given clearance or told to wait by the Controller.

[Drakuel]

I think it will be interesting to see how the game goes with no jumpdrive. As mentioned earlier, it can be too much of a cheese. One idea I always wanted to try was to use a UFD to jump to a sector, plant a Jump Beacon, and build my base there. With no gates, I would be untouchable, and with a Jump Beacon, only my ships could get there. However, I believe I read somewhere that UFD sectors are not saved once you leave.

Yeah me too, I think it brings strategy to the series and more meaning to the series, that many used to scream for..

I think this first step in change will bring a whole level of strategy and depth to the factions the series really needed, to make it feel more impactful in your life within the environment.. If you compound this with real economic impact, to me it brings the series to a whole new level in my opinion.

I dont mind jumpdrives taken out, but I also not sure that is the only answer, but for this iteration I'm fine with it.

I do think, some of these challenges could be countered in a natural way through diplomatic or reputation mechanics and jump inhibitors deployed by factions...

So sector owners can close there borders if they need to, stopping jumps in there sectors, but more neutral factions to you or your own controlled sectors open to you... I'm no game designer, but I have seen mechanics like this work in other games well, and it still maintain that balance.

[ballti]

Can someon explain how we will fill HQ from multiple manufacturing station/factory setup over whole universe whit all stuff needed for making ships and fiting moduls for ships whitout JD and JB? Looks like alot of ppl not play X3 series whit full game content.

[ahddib]

All well and good without it, since teleport ill fill the need. My main gameplay want is automatic emergency teleport to your main ship (Or closest if no main is selected) if your current is "going critical."

That'd be a true quality of life right there.

[ballti]

Sacrifice JD/JB becouse some ppl are lazy to jump and change ship?
You must be kidding me.

[Fedora01]

Can someon explain how we will fill HQ from multiple manufacturing station/factory setup over whole universe whit all stuff needed for making ships and fiting moduls for ships whitout JD and JB? Looks like alot of ppl not play X3 series whit full game content.

By not setting up your entire manufacturing base across the whole universe? I'm not really sure what other answer you're looking for here.

[ballti]

So: no unique ore/stuff over universe, no JD, no need dedicated missile factory, no ranks, universe can be very small, all good stuff, right?
We can skip all pro contents becouse of teleport.