Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

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gbjbaanb
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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by gbjbaanb » Tue, 16. Oct 18, 13:58

ZaphodBeeblebrox wrote:
Tue, 16. Oct 18, 07:23
Lets take the idea of Jump modules on stations just another step further....

Why bother having ships at all. One station could attach a jump device to a large cargo container and jump it directly to another station. So now we don't need any trade ships at all.
If we get rid of trade ships we can also reduce or maybe even remove all of the fighter ships as well, just make stations extremely well defended.
So now we have a simulation with no ships in it at all. Don't think that would go down very well.
Lets take the idea of teleport just another step further....

You could bung your cargo on the teleport bay and teleport it directly to another station.. you get the rest.

(Teleport is even worse that jump as it doesn't require fuel, whereas jump could cost more in fuel cells than you'd make in profit selling the cargo.)

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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by ZaphodBeeblebrox » Tue, 16. Oct 18, 14:19

Yes, both devices could be used to do this. The fact that the teleport could be used this way has already been endlessly discussed.

I was just pointing out that the same "logic" could be applied to the jump drive.
After all the jump drive is capable of moving a ship weighing mega-tonnes instantly to other parts
of the galaxy, whereas the teleport as far as we know is only capable of moving a single human.
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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by Phipsz » Tue, 16. Oct 18, 20:15

We'd still need stations for transporting/teleporting the wares? Why not make that from planet to
planet so we don't even need to bother with stations? in fact, why do we even walk anywhere
while having a transporter device? Why do we even have humans/teladi/split/borons/paranid when A(G)I
can do everything they can, maybe even more? I think that may be called gameplay.
Of course you can always find holes in gameplay logic to take it apart and kill any discussion about a
gameplay element. :wink:
Considering that, why don't we try to discuss the gameplay element jumpdrive and/or alternatives without
exploiting errors in gameplay logic? Because there are strong pros and cons (gameplay wise) for and
against the jumpdrive as we know it, I belive that discussing possible solutions might actually lead to
creative ideas :roll: I know I would like to keep the jumpdrive for actual convenience in the late game :)

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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by Tomonor » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 00:28

Honestly, I'm more interested in how Egosoft is going to cover up the absense of the jumpdrive. Is there going to be a weak explanation, like the jumpdives can no longer tune in to the gate system because of their late restructuring? Or are they going to stay silent and pretend the jumpdrives never happened, the invention that made Terracorp rich and rendering previous entire plots and stories retconned?
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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by Sandalpocalypse » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 01:19

I'm guessing it'll be an encyclopedia entry detailing that the jumpdrives stopped working after the gate reset.
Irrational factors are clearly at work.

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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by Chris0132 » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 02:28

Rebirth just went with the idea that SETA was hard to come by after the gate restructuring, so "gates did it" is a pretty consistent argument, given that it's responsible for a massive amount of the technological changes between X3 and Rebirth.

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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by Ormac » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 05:15

Well No Jumpdrives in the X universe makes little sense to me.

Due to binary classifications we have big ships and small ships and military ships and commercial (trade) ships.
We also Have X-Trilogy and X-Rebirth.

Most of the stated comments seem to be comming from the X-Trilogy perspective all the gates and jumping every thing from one side of the universe almost instantly to where you want it.
Useful in situations but up to the individual to use or overuse as they desire.

That's not how it quite worked with X-Rebirth your Big Ships jumped to beacons and flew to their destination or though a gate to the adjoining cluster.
X-Rebirth ws a move back to Egosofts vision of the X-universe with Jumpdrives limited to big/very lage ships.
Jumpdrives stil focused on a fixed point, now exculesively jump beacons rather than a gate.
Which I liked

So your going to be introduced to the next iteratio of the X-Universe a galaxy structure like X-Rebirth and no one gets to use a jump drive?

I can understand the Combat balance with the removal of the Jumpdrive.
If the transporter can whisk you to any of your assets not every ship needs a drive to make switching ships easier.

How is the Trade Side of the game possibly balanced against no jumpdrives?

The Economy felt slowed down in X-Rebirth. Trades did seem to take a long time to happen even with the Jumpdrives and Jump
beacons.

Are we going back to 10K ships ferrying goods around in a X-Rebirth spanning area?
Trades could take even longer.

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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by ZaphodBeeblebrox » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 07:35

In civilised areas there will be highways. These will be used by ships of all sizes. From the look of things these span the "sector" from gate to gate. So fast travel across the sector.
We now have the travel drive and large capitals had boost in Rebirth so I'm assuming that is still in.

I would expect Egosoft to balance the economy on these modes of travel. What this also means is all trade ships are now more exposed. They will have to travel potentially longer distances without jump drives.
So the placement of stations and the setting up of station trading will require more THINK. It is entirely possible that trade routes will have to be patrolled to help defend traders.
Also tied to this is what resources are available near by. That could be raw resources, or NPC built. Restricting trade to the local area maybe required initially. As the station grows and larger and hopefully better protected trade ships become available to use, the player can enlarge the area for trading.

In areas further from civilisation then station placement and the defence of property is going to become even more critical. The strategy I am currently considering is to build in "safer" areas where I can find something to exploit. Get very friendly with the locals. When I have built a solid foundation, then I'll look to expand to areas that carry greater risk, and hopefully more profits.

It would be "nice" if you civilised an area due to your stations and patrols that the game responded and benefits of civilisation arrived in that area.

I can also see building several fleets to help patrol areas that I am developing, then using these fleets to help keep the miscreants in check by blowing the absolute crap out of their stations and ships.
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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by Chris0132 » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 08:10

Yeah the capital ship boosters in Rebirth made them by far the fastest craft in the game for crossing large sectors, if all ships have access to that kind of boost mechanism for high speed cruise travel I would expect travel to be quite fast if you know where you're going and the sectors aren't hostile.

And the massive size of the large traders introduced in Rebirth also means that you don't need to be making trips super often. Stations have expandable storage so it's quite possible that you end up making big shipments with big ships, especially for long runs. But at the same time they said in one of the streams that there are a lot more M size trading ships, about the size of X3 freighters, so assuming you build actually in range of a decent market (and you really should if you want a quick profit) there's likely to be plenty of people willing to buy your goods.

One thing I do think could be interesting is if you could assign M traders to XL freighters, then just park the XL freighter in the middle of a zone and have it ship lots of small shipments to all the stations, now that XL ships can actually carry a wing of smaller craft. Or, if XL freighters could themselves function like stations, with NPC traders free to buy from them.

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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by Ormac » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 12:48

Well I hope the ship speeds are balanced and that the distances between zones with interesting and profitable opportunities is not too vast.

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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by Phipsz » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 13:24

For faster Highway-travels we also only have to look at ES's experiments with the HoL expansion. I mean, the
circular Highway with integrated Super-Highways will probably be the way to go for most core-sectors, welll, at
least the interconnected part with normal- and super-highways anyway. stations away from the highway-network
will only be profitably reachable by boost, limiting (by X:R-knowledge) to capital ships. but boosting also throws
up another question for me: how will pirates be able to attack those ships? I mean, if a ship is boosting, just
shooting at it is not really the way to go and would allow the player to even safely trade through hostile sectors if
they have a boost-able ship. will pirates be able to use boost-disabling missiles like the ones from the TO-dlc? or
maybe even drop boost-jammers in form of beacons or something like that? or will hostile sectors just look like
the TO-sector with a lot of hazardous regions where boosting would be highly dangerous?

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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by Chris0132 » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 13:49

I would have to assume there's going to be some kind of interdiction effect on the travel drive, either any weapons fire pulling you out of it, or it being jammed by hostile forces nearby.

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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by Alci » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 19:08

why should be boosting that much of problem? The speed is still pretty limited and boosting ship cannot really turn making it much easier target. Chasing ship can boost as well.

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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by sd_jasper » Wed, 17. Oct 18, 19:26

Well, now there is a clear first target... the engines. In XR you had to choose between targeting the engines to prevent them from boosting out of range, or the Jump Drive to prevent a jump. Now they won't be jumping, so just blast the engines to disable them, then continue on the attack. At least for caps. Not sure if we can target components on smaller ships, so that might be an issue with them activating travel drive to escape combat? We'll have to see how that works.

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Post by Vector_Gorgoth » Fri, 19. Oct 18, 16:32

This is really long and I'm at least 99% certain it won't change a damned thing but at least now I've said my piece. tl;dr: removing jump drives was a horrible, stupid mistake and it's going to virtually guarantee that players like myself never buy it.
CBJ wrote:
Thu, 28. Sep 17, 18:17
Unfortunately the reality is that no answer is going to be considered a "good answer" if the reader doesn't happen agree with the decision. Pretty much every design decision comes with a whole range of value judgements; we have to weigh the inputs up against one another, assigning priorities and balancing gameplay upsides against downsides, development costs against benefits, and the opinions of one group of players against those of another. Every such decision can be "challenged" by giving different weights to the various inputs, or indeed simply dismissed as lies or incompetence, as also tends to happen depressingly often even on a relatively civilised forum such as this one. This is one reason why developers tend not to spend much time trying to explain design decisions in public.
This is a bit disingenuous. A sufficiently dishonest (or stupid) arguer can change the terms of a debate to favour their chosen point of view, but I'm hoping you don't mean to imply that every X-Universe player is like that. If so, that just reinforces the notion I've garnered over time that Egosoft doesn't really respect its players much.
CBJ wrote:
Thu, 28. Sep 17, 18:17
However, in this case I will give it a go, and we'll see whether the explanation is considered "good" or just dismissed!

In a game like this, the universe needs to feel "big" otherwise it doesn't feel much like a space game. However, while sitting looking at the universe pass by can be really enjoyable for a while, most players don't actually want to do this indefinitely; they want to get to the action reasonably quickly. Now of course these two fundamental goals are actually contradictory, and they are not the only contradiction. Players want the game to be tactical, with variation in the universe, importance placed on where resources are gathered, and where stations are built and where fleets are stationed, yet they don't want to spend precious gaming time travelling between different parts of their empire. They want there to be dangers, yet they also don't like it being too hard to get to their trading ships quickly to protect them. The list goes on.
This is a horrible mixture of half-truths. Its true: Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.[1] We all know that. But that's more of a "con" than a "pro" in terms of gameplay. What you mean is that you want the game to feel big. The second you let someone look out a cockpit window at a planet spinning under them, they know space is big. So let's not pretend this is about space.

It's all about the game, space or not. Right? Right.

One thing that you knew in X3 and have forgotten now is that the "player" isn't just the ship he's on. That Mammoth you're waiting for to deploy a station so you can progress in a quest so you can unlock the ship so you can so you can so you can so you can so you can so you can is holding you up just as surely as your own ability to get from point A to point B. All you're going to do is add a bunch of extra tedium where players contrive situations where they enter a ship just for the purpose of teleporting that ship somewhere, using it as a de facto jump drive, except a lot less convenient. So either you've redesigned the game so it's so boring/simple that you don't end up in deeply recursed tasks or manipulating complex fleets, or you've forgotten that those things actually affect the player too.

A game tends to feel large when there's interesting stuff to do and interesting stuff to find. JDs didn't let you find derelict ships or pirate bases or new sectors - you had to fly, the old fashioned way, for that. That's where the exploration aspect made X3 feel big. Even if you eventually had tons of money and crashed the game with int overflows and jumped in your 250 k/sec Trinity that you got with 220 hours of mindless reloading, you still remembered how long it took to fly from Argon Prime to Omicron Lyrae when you had to visually pick out the gates and fly to them because they weren't on the nav yet.

Doing that once (per run) is exploration. Forcing the player to do it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again, even by proxy (waiting on other ships) is tedium. The more ships you're managing and the bigger the game gets, the more tedious it becomes to wait for things to show up. Plus you're really destroying the player's sense of power. There was a kind of spine-tingling awe in watching a dozen M2s jump into a sector - "nice sector you've got there. shame something's about to happen to it." You've stolen that away without offering anything very compelling - just pretty words to redress a poorly disguised lack of creativity.
CBJ wrote:
Thu, 28. Sep 17, 18:17
Both SETA and jumpdrives are solutions to some of these problems, but both of them are "blunt instruments". We didn't initially implement them in XR because we wanted to see if we could find better, more subtle, ways to achieve the same results. Highways and engine boosters were the main tools for this, but there were mixed reactions to the highways (not helped by some design issues in early versions which made them less enjoyable to use than they should have been). Boosters proved more widely popular, with the possible exceptions of our chosen "cost" for use, namely the shields, but came with the downside that the player would tend to spend more time in empty space, not seeing any other traffic.
Highways completely and utterly destroy any sense of the game being big. It takes a massive 3d volume of space and turns it into a tiny little web of tubes. Everything meaningful happens in or near the tubes. Perhaps there are cats in the tubes and you're reinvented the Internet, but "roads in space" is trivializing the "space" aspect of the game in ways that I have yet to really wrap my head around.

Turbo boosting is great for COMBAT, but not so great for getting around. It's wonderful to be able to instantly accelerate to max speed in a given direction, or to outrun things that want you dead, but you can't really couple boost with SETA so it's still slower in terms of player time than just flying with SETA on. Bringing turbo into this shows just how deeply you misunderstand the problems you're attempting to solve.
CBJ wrote:
Thu, 28. Sep 17, 18:17
However, neither of these solutions addressed one key player scenario, namely the situation where the player really does just want to allow more time to pass, for example to allow production or station-building to complete. We had hoped that players would be too busy doing other things to be too bothered about not being able to accelerate time, but it turned out that that wasn't the case. With no better alternative solutions to that particular problem in sight (and with the functionality to accelerate time already available in the game for development purposes) we decided to restore SETA. That remains the situation with SETA as we work towards X4, and I will leave discussion of SETA at that.
This essentially admits that the primary anticipated time sinks in the game are player transportation or building stuff. That means that large fleet management is completely out of the picture, unless you simply misspoke. If true, though, that means what you're creating is no X game, and certainly not a worthy successor of X3.
CBJ wrote:
Thu, 28. Sep 17, 18:17
Jumpdrives were popular, but they pretty much completely destroyed both the feeling of size, and the tactical, territory-controlling element of the game. Sure, there are ways to mitigate some of their effect (jump target limitations, range limitations, fuel cost) but none of them remove the fundamental problem that you cannot place an obstacle in the way of an invading fleet in an interesting way. Note that adding another gameplay mechanism to prevent jumpdrives being used doesn't really count as interesting for these purposes; it just stops the jumpdrive from being useful, making it redundant. So, thinking again about which features of a jumpdrive we wanted in the game, and which we didn't, we realised that there were two separate scenarios. One was getting a ship or fleet from A to B, and the other was getting the player from A to B so that they could be "in on the action".
Okay, you finally mention fleets. That's reassuring. But you're still talking many, many minutes of waiting for a fleet to arrive, perhaps when you need it urgently. SETA might help when you're peacefully waiting for a big transport to arrive, but it isn't going improve the situation when you're being shot at. Only the player has no assistants or admirals to delegate timing to - you have to remember everything yourself. JD is a wonderful shortcut to keep the player from having to juggle too many temporal variables at once. Since you've already committed to having empires react to stuff, that makes this game MUCH more complicated than X3 ever could have been - and that game was complicated enough. Now I have to think about how long everything is going to take to get from X to Y and that's going to magnify in complexity if the highway systems themselves aren't static (which, if they are, will seriously limit the game's flexibility).

Speaking purely for myself, I play games to relax. If the game becomes excessively complicated, it stops being fun because if I want to invest serious skull sweat into something I can get paid doing that. Nobody's paying me to play this.

The argument against JD jamming is poorly conceived - it was obvious the directed JD used the gate network to mediate jumps (that did kinda go out the window with beacons, but those were kind of a bad idea to begin with honestly, because they really did make it possible to jump anywhere, anytime, with no possible way to counter it). Without beacons, the JD gave a wonderfully competing set of priorities: anything easy to jump to is also easy to attack, so you have to weigh accessibility against security (just like real life). If you have some super seeckrit base you hide it out in the middle of nowhere but it's a pain to get to. If you want to make tons of money fast, stick your station right above the gate and hope no Xenon fleet takes it out.

Anyway, as I was saying, if gate networks mediate the jumps, it's easy enough to say that beacons still require a gate in the sector for X BS reason. Yeah, it's a retcon, but it might be a necessary one and nobody cared much for Albion Prelude, which is the only place they were used heavily, so whatever. It's better than rewriting the game lore fundamentally. But with that in place, you could have jump blockades where placing some jamming mechanism in a sector makes it impossible to route jumps through that sector. Throw IFF on them and you have some really interesting possibilities, where some races can jump through a sector and others can't, or where a player can't jump into a region of space.... whatever. Now you have:

-Choke points
-Territorial blockades
-Defensive hubs
-Distinct "geographic" regions

All in one fell swoop and as long as you don't overuse jamming, it won't screw with the player's ability to use JD to deal with logistical complexity without having a nervous breakdown. Make them destructible and now you can send strike fleets in to deal with jammers before you can invade. Made it so they can (optionally) affect neighboring sectors in addition to their own (at least in friendly territory, but it might be interesting if you could jam jumping for an empire INSIDE THEIR OWN TERRITORY) and you have some really complicated potential tactical scenarios.

Another option to play with would be having gates pairs that can be turned on and off again, which would (if you ran with the "gates mediate jumps" idea) allow secured sectors that can't be jumped into or even flown into without the gate being activated by its controlling race. And there's a really good application for hacking, too - hacking gates or jammers. Hell, leave in beacons and make them hackable too and then you're really cooking with gas.

Honestly most of the arguments against JDs you're making really sound like you're really arguing against JD beacons, as they existed in AP and TC, not JD itself, and don't have the ability to differentiate the two effectively.
CBJ wrote:
Thu, 28. Sep 17, 18:17
For the first scenario highways have a place, allowing ships in densely-populated areas to move quickly. This not only makes sense logically, in the same way that roads and motorways make sense in busy areas, but it also helps with the perception of how busy such an area is since a player travelling along through the area will see more ships. In less populated ares, ships would still be able to use boost drives, and the player not seeing so many of them would help create the corresponding more empty atmosphere.
We're players, not cats. It's easy to tell when game developers use cheap tricks to make a game seem more "busy" than it is. Perhaps you should stop thinking of us as idiots that can be placated with superficial tricks, because that, right there, was a huge complaint I saw repeated by many people about X:R.
CBJ wrote:
Thu, 28. Sep 17, 18:17
That leaves the player case. In particular it leaves the case of the player being frustrated to see their ships being attacked on the far side of the universe, but having no means to get there and apply their skills to try and save the situation. Allowing them to jump in at will with a fleet is too overpowered and takes away any real danger, but allowing them to be there in person and maybe try and fly the ship to safety, or perhaps man a hero escort ship and fend off the enemy single-handed, makes for good, exciting gameplay. That's where teleportation comes in, and I'm sure you can work out numerous other possibilities it brings up.
Except you forgot the case where I'm doing a mission and my complex across the map gets attacked and I don't want to deal with it personally. Now I have to hope I have a big enough fleet close enough it can fly there in time to rescue it (even if sectors have defences, they can't protect against say, a random pirate fleet showing up at the same time as a Xenon wave at the same time as a hostile empire strike force, because you got unlucky) - and if the threat is bad, both the fleet and myself aren't going to be enough so I really need my OTHER fleets except they're too far away and we'll all be dead by the time they arrive. Oh, if only there was some way I could cross the barriers of space and time to bring them here instantly - OH WAIT.
CBJ wrote:
Thu, 28. Sep 17, 18:17
One final thing for those saying that jumpdrives "can't" be removed because it "doesn't make sense" from a lore perspective: I'm afraid that argument is back to front. The lore needs to be made to fit the gameplay, not the other way around.
If you want to rewrite lore, create a spin-off or something. I'm not all that picky about lore, but I don't like when authors begin to rewrite physics in order to solve problems, especially when they're replacing their own made-up physics with other, different made-up physics. If you can't respect your universe, why should we? If you can't give at least the most basic level of consistency (X is possible, Y is not possible) then how do you expect people to remain invested in your creation? The only, and I mean the only thing the X series had going for it was that you had a really cool universe with really neat gameplay options that seemed to slowly be expanding over time.

You already took away the growing gameplay options, now you're taking away the universe - and the only other thing you had going for you for a long time was the lack of competition. Then again, all the competition seems to be trash, so maybe that's still true - but if you imitate inferior competitors you're just going to end up losing that special spark that made X so good to begin with. After all, there's a reason I have yet to buy Rebirth despite having ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE TO PLAY at the moment. I'm not exaggerating. I've played everything that interests me at the moment; my options are replaying games I've already beaten more times than a red-headed step child or buying games that don't interest me in the least. Despite having put probably thousands of hours into previous X games, I haven't even considered buying X:R. If someone gave me a copy, I might play it, but probably not. It just doesn't interest me. It did, until I read about it in depth (and note I spent a year following development after it was released, just in case the stuff that concerned me got fixed; it never did).
CBJ wrote:
Thu, 28. Sep 17, 18:17
Now, I'm sure you will read through this and say "yes, but...." and come up with some counter-argument that you feel supports your view that jumpdrives should stay, and of course you are entitled to your opinion. However, please don't try to claim that we didn't think through the decision, nor that we just "threw away" something that you liked without considering it properly. We have thought about it very carefully, and who knows? Maybe the fact that we came to a different conclusion to the one you would perhaps have come, might even mean that it wasn't us who missed something important. ;)
You didn't think about it nearly carefully enough. The approach you took to solving it was systematically and systemically flawed and I've no faith whatsoever that the rest of the game will be any better conceived. Yes, you're right I might be missing something - and if enough people give the game rave reviews, I'll have to come back and grovel and edit this post to admit I was an arrogant idiot. I doubt that's going to happen, but it could.

Ultimately, though, my impression is that you're doubling down on the mistakes of X:R and failing to think beyond them. You're limiting options, not expanding them; you're thinking regressively instead of progressively. IFF jump jammers may sound weird, but it's THE GLORIOUS FUTURE and you can always throw in cool new stuff with the justification that "X race made a tech breakthrough". Removing options really just makes it seem like everyone got retarded and forgot how to do things they used to know how to do. I guess everyone has that happen to them - dementia has to set in eventually - but applying depressing existential realities to games usually isn't a way to draw in the crowds.

[1] With apologies to Douglas Adams

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Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by LameFox » Fri, 19. Oct 18, 17:34

That is a really big complaint over the loss of something that will almost certainly be modded back in anyway for those who can't live without it.
***modified***

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Re: Will we have the jumpdrive in X4?

Post by StoneLegionYT » Fri, 19. Oct 18, 17:48

LameFox wrote:
Fri, 19. Oct 18, 17:34
That is a really big complaint over the loss of something that will almost certainly be modded back in anyway for those who can't live without it.
There is a mental component to this for some people. Some people refuse to mod their game even if it's the most easy thing on earth. They feel entitled to their feature and will whine and cry even if it's modded in and will for sure be modded in for those who want it.

I'm happy myself it's not being modded in biggest reason is they can fix up path finding better, etc. They would of tested it more without ships blinking around the map. This is good news. When someone mods it in now it will be easier for them to add jumping then it would be to remove jumping and smoothen out AI issues witch never has happen in Rebirth (The Fixing AI Issues)

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No Jumpdrive? Thats very sad

Post by diggzakk » Mon, 22. Oct 18, 10:53

Hi Egosoft, i found a video about sector design and station building, and there you said that there is no jumpdrive.


If so, then the whole segment of trading missions had changed? I mean back in X2 i did lot of trade missions like, deliver 5000 energy cells in 2 hours stuff like that, and a jumpdrive was very handy for that, in X3/TC/AP there was also missions like this but in a bad scale because always they wanted so huge amounts which was almost always impossible to make without a jumpdrive in a single fly, so i only accepted "trade" missions like "pick up medicals and deliver at to that station in 20 minutes" which was done in one flight but still you absolutely need a jumpdrive for that

now, when there is no jumpdrive no more, i assume that part of gameplay is totally gone OR changed in favour of actually possible to achieve?

could we have a bit more informations about that? as trade is still a huge concept of X and X4 is also advertised to have that part, but cutting out the way it was presented in such a scale makes me a bit concerned without a bit deeper informations

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