Can we see actual gameplay?

[Xeroeth]

Nah, not everyone are like this. I backed SC when it was still a small studio, now it's something that gaming industry has to reckon with. But it doesn't mean I don't see other great games out there. If it comes to space sims, X series is one of the top players out there, at least for me. If anyone says otherwise, well, you can't force them to change their minds, but you know better, don't you?

[Alci]

I think there is absolutely no comparison with X-Rebirth - we have much more of everything - more features, more community feedback, more screenshots, more videos, more Egosoft response.

you sure? Because I remember answering questions was not really the issue. Mods were here and we had the same level of info. I knew pretty well what Rebirth will be just not how it will feel. I remember there were a lot of discussion about known decisions and how they will (not) work (one ugly ship, seamless platforms AKA "the window problem" ). Always with the same two groups, one automatically dooming the game, the other saying "wait-and-see before judge"

I'm more and more convinced that the X4 goona live up to the expectations.

it never will. It never can. As long as people have expectations and desires they are doomed to be disappointed and unhappy.

I have yet to find a single red flag that might indicate something will be wrong.

since you've mentioned "risks":

- the game won't be betatested before release. More then one feature is not yet implemented, 7 weeks before release. There is possibly no time to implement everything for release, betatest it and respond with balancing/redesigning faulty parts. We will get beta version and all the not-smooth parts will be dealt after release

- missing character customization - this decision "it's better when people play predefined character because their own would feel too generic" is as flawed as "people will like The One ship". They didn't liked Yisha. Let alone being stuck with race/gender or background not of their choice. It's irony. If there was not player model, it's ok, imagination works. If there is helmet one, it's ok, imagination works. But if you are showing the model it'd better be the one of my choice. I will be the one stuck with them for very long time (while some background mission will last few hours top). I really think Character customization where you choose at least race/gender and one of the available backgrounds will be forced in during X4 lifetime

- first version of "newgen" as it should be so it will be lacking at release. Very limited commands/scripts for fleets, missing shortcuts for the most used pathways, missing some required resource forcing you to do some tedious job to deal with it.. things like these. It will take time to get these improved, with bug fixing and planned expansion development all together.

- closed economy loop - this is very fragile topic. Easily breakable. For the same reason gold standard can't work for long time in real world. In long term based on player involvement it either ends in cold death of the Universe (AKA AI will balance things out to complete average) or one overruling power (player ofc., by the time you get the fleet large enough to look for enemies there will be noone left with working economy capable of resisting)

What would be very convincing (a great advertisement material) is doing several long term simulations of the system. Exact same start, long time simulated (measured in player hours, up to like 5000, showing map of influence during the simulation). If one simulation ends up with 3 faction eradicated and 2 new emerging, while the other ends up with one superpower overrulling half of the galaxy through economy conquer, then they can use it as a material of really "living" universe that player itself can affect and every gameplay will need to deal with different "motivated" faction interactions thinking for themselves.

[StoneLegionYT]

How come I can't lock this thread? Is facebook leaking onto this site lol.

[Falcrack]

How come I can't lock this thread? Is facebook leaking onto this site lol.

Locking stuff that may contain criticisms of the game will not prevent people from having negative opinions of it. In fact, such actions will probably only reinforce negative perceptions of a game.

Just to be clear, I am absolutely looking forward to the release of X4 and hope it will be great. I just wanted to see a bit more gameplay footage before hitting the preorder button. And I wanted to preorder to get the modest preorder discount on the collectors edition. I understand maybe 2 months before game release they may be hesitant to show more. But when it is 2 weeks before release, I hope there will be plenty of footage available, both from Egosoft employees, and possible 3rd parties, so that we can get a better feel for hpw the game will actually play out.

[DaMuncha]

I'm not sure I'd want to rely on Alpha gameplay video from last year when assessing whether the game will suit my playing style and appetite.

EXACTLY

[Graaf]

It has nothing to do with having faith in the product. We simply don't have the time and resources to make long "let's play" type videos, and with various things still being worked on it wouldn't be particularly helpful anyway.

You did have time streaming X3 not too long ago. Why not do that?

And if any bugs, or "blue screen of death", does appear, its better to get noticed before release.

[mr.WHO]

since you've mentioned "risks":

1- the game won't be betatested before release. More then one feature is not yet implemented, 7 weeks before release. There is possibly no time to implement everything for release, betatest it and respond with balancing/redesigning faulty parts. We will get beta version and all the not-smooth parts will be dealt after release

2- missing character customization - this decision "it's better when people play predefined character because their own would feel too generic" is as flawed as "people will like The One ship". They didn't liked Yisha. Let alone being stuck with race/gender or background not of their choice. It's irony. If there was not player model, it's ok, imagination works. If there is helmet one, it's ok, imagination works. But if you are showing the model it'd better be the one of my choice. I will be the one stuck with them for very long time (while some background mission will last few hours top). I really think Character customization where you choose at least race/gender and one of the available backgrounds will be forced in during X4 lifetime

3- first version of "newgen" as it should be so it will be lacking at release. Very limited commands/scripts for fleets, missing shortcuts for the most used pathways, missing some required resource forcing you to do some tedious job to deal with it.. things like these. It will take time to get these improved, with bug fixing and planned expansion development all together.

4- closed economy loop - this is very fragile topic. Easily breakable. For the same reason gold standard can't work for long time in real world. In long term based on player involvement it either ends in cold death of the Universe (AKA AI will balance things out to complete average) or one overruling power (player ofc., by the time you get the fleet large enough to look for enemies there will be noone left with working economy capable of resisting)

1 - this is somehow standard / normal since X2. Not a red flag, more like everyone expect that this will be for sure a problem in first month.
2 - I think this was never stated by Egosoft as a feature. Maybe something for tiny DLC or a mod?
P.S. Mentioning of Yisha gave me PTSD. I swear that if any NPC in X4 will have her voice actor I gonna scream and commit random acts of violence ingame
3 - this is not really a "newgen" more like heavy X-Rebirth upgrade. Most on new feature seems to have at least basic foundations already in XR.
4 - This one you're right - it's ultra hard to have stable economy in game and in real life too. I remember XR had huge Reinforce Hull Platings and Fusion Reactors crisis.

[atavistuk]

Pretty sure the RMP and FR shortage was deliberate though.

[LittleBird]

I think there is absolutely no comparison with X-Rebirth - we have much more of everything - more features, more community feedback, more screenshots, more videos, more Egosoft response.

you sure? Because I remember answering questions was not really the issue. Mods were here and we had the same level of info. I knew pretty well what Rebirth will be just not how it will feel. I remember there were a lot of discussion about known decisions and how they will (not) work (one ugly ship, seamless platforms AKA "the window problem" ). Always with the same two groups, one automatically dooming the game, the other saying "wait-and-see before judge"

In fact the situation is very similar. 2 months to go and surely we will see some videos regarding trade, build and fight. That's the same stuff we got close before the release of X-Rebirth.
That is the whole point I and other people criticize. It feels very similar to the X-Rebirth release and I think this was not a good decision independent of the true quality the game will have.

[PowerPC603]

I would like to see such a video as well.
It doesn't have to be an Egosoft employee to make that video, there surely is a beta tester who could make such a video.
They could just hit the record button while they are playing the game without a voice overlay, just to stay objectively, so we can rate the game by what we see, not what the tester actually knows about the game or what his experiences are.
But the tester would need Egosoft's approval first, because they signed an NDA form when they became a beta tester, which means they can't release anything to the public.

Most of us just don't have 500 euros in our pockets to spend on new hardware, especially with those expensive holidays coming as well: Santa, newyear, birthdays (we have 4 birthdays in november/december).
It would be painful to buy that new hardware just for X4 and figure out the gameplay isn't what we expected.
Personally I'm gonna buy it anyways, because I really like the modular stations approach (I had that idea for the game: instead of modular but still fixed station-layouts like Rebirth, have them completely modular with a base structure which you can expand to whatever you needed and it's what I expected).

I wanted to go buy a GTX 1050 TI 4GB to get the game running but it seems to be too low and I'll have to save a bit more money first to get a GTX 1070 TI 8GB.
So for me personally, I won't be playing on day 1 and I can wait for buyers to make their own videos at launch, but some others might not be able to wait and want to know upfront wether they should buy new hardware or not.

[Alci]

1 - this is somehow standard / normal since X2. Not a red flag, more like everyone expect that this will be for sure a problem in first month.
2 - I think this was never stated by Egosoft as a feature. Maybe something for tiny DLC or a mod?
3 - this is not really a "newgen" more like heavy X-Rebirth upgrade. Most on new feature seems to have at least basic foundations already in XR.
4 - This one you're right - it's ultra hard to have stable economy in game and in real life too. I remember XR had huge Reinforce Hull Platings and Fusion Reactors crisis.

Not "red flags", just risks. One bug that gets your ships blowing due to bad AI pathfinding (and you have a lot of ships now), one missing "Assist you carrier but not copy his commands" command and it will spawn whole bunch of negative reviews of "Rebirth copy" and "not fixed in 5 years".

Rebirth is part of this "newgen". I don't know else to call them to differentiate X1-X3 and Rebirth-X5.. branches.

Rebirth is the exact parallel with X1 with the limited functionality that is there but not fully implemented. X4 is the exact parallel with X2 (minus story, you will be missed, but with all the core things that made this franchise a name). And X5 as the final product with tuned and fixed features from X4 with the best mods ideas ideas included into main game.

That is the whole point I and other people criticize. It feels very similar to the X-Rebirth release and I think this was not a good decision independent of the true quality the game will have.

their marketing, I would not call it "bad", what else to want? It still feels much more open then Assassin's Creed, Tomb Raider or anything Bethesda does. I've never had feeling they are hiding or covering something. Just some questionable design decision they are always sure of even when it's not coherent with what players desire, but I've always seen this as CEO's personal pride of his company and work.

[Alci]

As for video, sure be neat, but watching someone truly playing X game is the worst time spent ever. The game is generally slow. Most of things were commanded with shortcuts so invisible for any watcher who doesn't know them already. And without seeing the long time goal in player heads the individual steps are not that important.

They were playing the game on GCON or what that was, that was not prepared cut video. There are a lot of visible aspects. Especially around the map which is half of the game (at least it seems it will be).

There will be enough gameplay videos after release with a lot of answers to any question. Showing them now, incomplete, while noone can really touch and check how it really works and feel can only result in speculations and trolling.

I'm more interested in well prepared feature presentation videos really and the Q&A responses.

[Player]

After 30 November there will surely be many videos to see the gameplay. You do not need to hurry.

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

I blame the Early Access of Steam for ruining the excitement of gamers. I don't throw around my money, backing every project I can see. I pick and choose. So I decided to back a small game called Spacebase DF-9, because I liked how it sounded, and what it could become. Sometime later, the devs stuck a 1.0 on the unfinished product, made an announcement that they were moving on, and got heaps of criticism from fans. So now, it's once bitten, twice shy for most gamers.

I'm not going to lie: I love how this game sounds. I loved X3, and kinda meh'd at Rebirth, but still gave it a try. I preordered X4 as soon as the button appeared (after watching the trailer). I believe in this series. Yes, some may say I jumped the gun, but this game seriously sounds like it's going to be much better from just the few things I've seen.

When the developers of Conan Exiles were working on their game, they had a livestream showing off new features throughout the development process. It was a "warts and all" stream, with bugs aplenty. However, people still loved it, because the developers were transparent. They didn't make grandiose promises and only show snippets of gameplay, they showed us a flawed product that we watched grow over time. I bought it when it was first released, because I liked what I saw.

I believe that is what OP meant to ask: take a section of game, and just play it. You don't even have to play any story content. Just go mining, show us how it works. Back in the old days, hype was a big deal. We got demo-discs in our gaming magazines, we looked for any info we could on the internet. Hype would make or break a game, since you didn't really know more than what was shown to you. Now, in the age of livestreams and Early Access, people have become more cautious, because far too many games have been either abandoned or left in Development Hell. They just want peace of mind. I even have a friend who, despite all the hype around it, as well as trailers shown, will not buy Red Dead Redemption 2 until it's been released and reviewed by gamers.

[Falcrack]

I believe that is what OP meant to ask: take a section of game, and just play it. You don't even have to play any story content. Just go mining, show us how it works.

Spot on, exactly this

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

For some of us, this would just ruin the game. I want to find out for myself how all of these things work. Its part of what I like about getting a new game, having to figure out the mechanics.
I personally wouldn't want this taken away from me by inadvertently viewing a video telling me exactly how a thing works.

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

For some of us, this would just ruin the game. I want to find out for myself how all of these things work. Its part of what I like about getting a new game, having to figure out the mechanics.
I personally wouldn't want this taken away from me by inadvertently viewing a video telling me exactly how a thing works.

Yet for others, that will ruin the game. X3 was known for its "learning cliff." I've suggested the game to a few friends, who said they couldn't get into it because they didn't know what to do. That isn't saying that X4 won't feature a tutorial in some form or fashion, but it may not be as in-depth as some people require or want.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Yes I can appreciate that too. I'm sure there will be gameplay videos made after the game releases. Just like the ones made for X-Rebirth.

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

And you also cannot fault the players for being hesitant. Reading the Q&A from last year, I see a lot of questions where they are deliberately ambiguous (not giving number of sectors, map sizes, etc.). These things are red flags to players. Any negative points in reviews after the game launches will only compound that, and it outweighs the good right out of the gate.

It's best to find some middle ground. Releasing some gameplay (actual LIVE gameplay, not prerecorded with fake reactions, like EA), will go a long way to assuaging fears, and make people more confident in your product, as well as you as developers. Seeing you play your own game and talk about your product makes it more relatable.

[Mustur]

And you also cannot fault the players for being hesitant. Reading the Q&A from last year, I see a lot of questions where they are deliberately ambiguous (not giving number of sectors, map sizes, etc.). These things are red flags to players. Any negative points in reviews after the game launches will only compound that, and it outweighs the good right out of the gate.

It's best to find some middle ground. Releasing some gameplay (actual LIVE gameplay, not prerecorded with fake reactions, like EA), will go a long way to assuaging fears, and make people more confident in your product, as well as you as developers. Seeing you play your own game and talk about your product makes it more relatable.

Completely agree with this. For a game that's supposed to be released soon, too many things were ambiguous or in a "still deciding" state.
And the answers here in this thread did not help either, too many red flags for me.

Let's see how it goes post release.