Dynamic universe, yet Core systems??

[Poacher886]

In the trailer it talks of a dynamic universe with factions rising and declaring wars. of the ebb and flow between factions and their conflicts, then talks about Highways only being in core systems!!

If the universe is dynamic and ever changing...how can their be 'core systems' ?? sounds like scripted X3 to me!

[Sandalpocalypse]

'dynamic' does not mean 'full Stellaris', it just means things change

[Tomonor]

As they explained it, the universe layout will be partially designed by hand and partially generated.
The systems/clusters/sectors will be added by hand, obviously (maybe except for unknown systems). Also, the backgrounds, planets, nebulae, highways, core trade-lanes, and the most basic stations.
But after that, the AI will generate the things, possibly from asteroids to actual station designs and faction ships.
No, it won't have that minecraft-esque sandbox feeling. But that was never the aim of the X series.

Dynamism in this sense means that there's no global script for the game to follow. For example, if you find or don't find a battle, you may intervene, or may not, it will play out. But there's no telling how it will unfold.

[ishmaeltheforsaken]

'dynamic' does not mean 'full Stellaris', it just means things change

But even Stellaris still has core systems as well. Whether or not a system is "core" can also be determined dynamically (I don't think that's going to happen in X4, but it's certainly possible to do).

[jamesdehunter]

Thinking about this logically I would assume that every faction has their "home" location, and that location cant be taken from them. So that system will always be the "core" of that factions area.

So some small part of space is statically owned by each faction and impossible to remove them from that area (probably the reasoning being that its right next to their home planet).

It sounds great on paper to be able to have factions wiped out completely, but in realistic terms not only will it kill gameplay as one faction would eventually triumph over all others (probably the player, lol) but it also means we just ignore the population on planets, because both the player and the factions in game have no mechanics to interact with that population, let alone kill them.

[Poacher886]

Well they talked about factions rising and falling, coming and going, and wars and conquest, and that each game will playout differently, indicating to me a more dynamic system ownership generally, but if the main factions of the game have scripted core systems, how different and dynamic can it really be.
For me a 'core system' should the one where a given factions keeps its fleets and stations in strength, and this should move appropriately with the ebb and flow of war.

[Poacher886]

Personally, i would like to see a far off goal in the game..one that is not easily achieved, like holding 30 systems 'all joined with no breaks' for a domination win. as you approach your goal a rival faction would only need take a system in your link to put you off course again. It would give the player and factions something to aim for, yet keep the massive amount of time and work needed to enjoy X games to the full.

[sd_jasper]

I think it probably has more to do with a system that has plenty of resources or holds certain strategic advantage. No matter who controls such a sector is has the resources and infrastructure to make it "core". Try all you might... a remote sector of space that's several sectors away from any gates, and has no highway system to speed travel will never be a core compared to a system with access to gates and travel speed up by highways.

[Seon]

The way I think about it, is that the 'core' systems are those that have the most development. Like what was said before, 'home' systems. The kinds of places where, in the lore, factions first settled and built up. Naturally these are going to be built up more, especially if the faction is wealthy. And then the systems without highways could be systems that are further away from these 'home' systems, or just places that are too poor to have highways.

These systems could still change hands (unless there are systems marked as 'Safe', like in the Mayhem mod on X3AP), giving it that dynamic universe feel.

[Cerulius]

I love the mention of Stellaris, which I'm actually playing atm lol....X4 Foundations kinda vibes to me as an Elite Dangerous/Stellaris lovechild

[StoneLegionYT]

I love the mention of Stellaris, which I'm actually playing atm lol....X4 Foundations kinda vibes to me as an Elite Dangerous/Stellaris lovechild

Downside is X4 spawns / cheats. Tries to keep a balance.

[sd_jasper]

Downside is X4 spawns / cheats. Tries to keep a balance.

Where'd you get that?

Most detailed X economy ever:

One of the key selling points of X games has always been the realistic, simulated economy. Wares produced by hundreds of stations and transported by thousands of ships are actually traded by NPCs and prices develop based on this simulated economy. This is the foundation of our living and breathing universe. Now with X4, we have taken another, massive step. For the first time in any X game, all parts of the NPC economy are manufactured from resources. Ships, weapons, upgrades, ammo and even stations. You name it. Everything comes out of the simulated economy.

[Alci]

Well they talked about factions rising and falling, coming and going, and wars and conquest, and that each game will playout differently, indicating to me a more dynamic system ownership generally, but if the main factions of the game have scripted core systems, how different and dynamic can it really be

not sure where your source is but the AI is meant to keep stability. Factions won't be rising and falling on their own. If you let them alone they won't eradicate each other. That was said.

Second thing, You can't take "ownership" of the sector formally. There are no "borders". You rule factually. If you have more stations to control economy, if you eradicate faction stations in the sector and keep any of their fleets away you de facto own the sector and its resources. Won't have your name tho.

That's what "core" system means in the context. A place where "natural habitat" of main factions is, at least at start. You can wipe them I imagine and make it your home. But for AI and some other mechanics will be still theirs (like you get rewards if you have their police license, or maybe you need to ask for permission to build a station - you don't need that permission if you don't care about reputation but no other faction then the "owner" can give it to you and no other will be pissed off if you build station there anyway.)

Same as I guess argon system will always have argon workforce. No matter that you are teladi and you are the only one having stations there. Still argon system. And their AI will keep trying to build things there and chase you out.

I'm also not sure that you can completely eradicate a faction or new one emerges. They gave a number of factions and they all sounded like they have a background history and motives. Like those two religion paranid factions fighting each other. You have rep with each faction. So I don't think you can just wipe them completely and new "anonymous" (?) would emerge. More likely with a LOT effort (might be realistically impossible) you can diminish their numbers to few, maybe to zero, but they will still gets some funds from somewhere and they will try to rebuild back. They won't "move" to some distant place to start over.

What ES talked about as "unknown" was most likely that you can change the balance between factions and they will build and spread accordingly (unlike previous games where factions didn't really make any effort to expand whatsoever while now they will to some extend; that the stations couldn't be truly destroyed, but now can) so they can't predict what yours and mine universe will look like (while in X3 the map and political situation remained pretty much the constant).

[Alci]

Where'd you get that?

but that doesn't mean closed loop economy you know. They will still "cheat" to keep stability.

Most likely they will cheat with unlimited funds to help them to rebuild whatever they need or they will be brought to their knees very easily.

Based on previous statements about stability, avoiding chaos, full scale wars and such, and how faction station managers "talk" to each other when deciding next opportunity.. you can't most likely even "kill them" as they will simply always exist.. they need to cheat economy somehow to keep it at bay. Most likely with money. Same as your mission paycheck won't probably be paid from any budget. And your exploration loot won't be covered by any real resources.

Even so it's a question how easily they break. With no spawning ships the strategy seems obvious and I'm looking forward to test what happens What will AI really do if you blockade their shipyards? Shooting all incoming transporters? Will they selfdestruct the station as it doesn't make any "money" (that was what Transport Tycoon did, but there was maintenance cost)? Will they be slightly clever to build another elsewhere out of sight? Or stupid and while seeing that there's high buy price for microchips/tubes/whatever in not working shipyards they will try to build microchip/tubes/whatever station nearby to cover the shortage? And how many resources they will be able and willing to spend to attack you?

[StoneLegionYT]

Downside is X4 spawns / cheats. Tries to keep a balance.

Where'd you get that?

Most detailed X economy ever:

One of the key selling points of X games has always been the realistic, simulated economy. Wares produced by hundreds of stations and transported by thousands of ships are actually traded by NPCs and prices develop based on this simulated economy. This is the foundation of our living and breathing universe. Now with X4, we have taken another, massive step. For the first time in any X game, all parts of the NPC economy are manufactured from resources. Ships, weapons, upgrades, ammo and even stations. You name it. Everything comes out of the simulated economy.

Interview ages ago. They also keep balance of the factions power. They can have skirmishes on the borders and such but no other faction can for example take over another totally. It was all in the interviews. Sadly from what I recalled a 100% system means it always fails and breaksdown without unlimited funds and some basic rules for balance.

[reanor]

Personally, i would like to see a far off goal in the game..one that is not easily achieved, like holding 30 systems 'all joined with no breaks' for a domination win. as you approach your goal a rival faction would only need take a system in your link to put you off course again. It would give the player and factions something to aim for, yet keep the massive amount of time and work needed to enjoy X games to the full.

I actually tried to do this in XR, I took the whole system with 7 or so sectors in it, right near that big star. The problem was that there were some indestructible stations in one sector. I had Fermunkles and Arawans camping that sector and shooting those ruins none-stop. They never completely got destroyed, and that is what I don't want to see in X4. Speaking of dynamic systems in X4, I really hope that enemy ships won't just pop in from who knows where. They said that the whole universe will be based on existing resources, industry and development. So If I decide to take a system to myself and cut off specific faction from the resources in that system, by the idea, they supposed to cease to exist, at least at that one system. I do want to see that. I want to see them come back at me with their forces and try to retake that system from me.

[RodentofDoom]

There's a thing in strategy called dynamics of scale.
This refers to civilian infrastructure, exploitable resources, manufacturing capabilities & military recruitment

The game is set at a level of scale beyond anything we have experience of.
Our scale has always been limited to
1 nation, 1 alliance of localised nations, 1 continent, we have not yet reached the scale of 1 planet
And we are a long way away from a scale of 1 system


Now try to imagine what happens when you scale those factors to 10's, 100's or 1000's of solar systems
How do you defeat an enemy with that level of capability
Sure you can defeat them in a few locations ... but what happens when the re-mobilasation from hundreds & hundreds of other worlds come to get revenge.

Multiple space spanning empires can be so vast that fringe systems will be the only viable targets they have, the dynamics of scale make parts of their empires untouchable. Yes the areas of space they control can fluctuate through wars & conquests, but they will still have core worlds that don't.
In a protracted war scale renders victory untenable due to attrition caused to all involved parties, no one wins and eventually all parties begin to collapse internally.

A space Empire can be both dynamic & static
And it is not a contradiction to state as much.


You gotta stop thinking small

[csaba]

You have to keep some core sectors since there is no other way to gain credits than from trading with and doing missions for NPC factions. In XR you can just build all your materials and build your fleet for free but at some point you will need some credits to hire new crew, repair some stuff, do some modifications or whatever credit sink there will be in X4. Of course at that point you would already have a decent stock but you basically cannot earn any more so it slowly dwindles.

In case you are fighting the last faction and they are the only NPCs left then you will probably loose all your money while they technically have infinite. So some basic core sectors make sense so you don't break the players end game.

[vadiolive]

well xr modders that alred did : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =734207240
i have no doubt its going pop soon as on X4 , and i believe in X4 if everything be rigth probably alot wide mods to improve dynamics
i find this kind stuffs interresing because you cant spoiller yourself each time you start new game

[Alci]

You have to keep some core sectors since there is no other way to gain credits than from trading with and doing missions for NPC factions. In XR you can just build all your materials and build your fleet for free but at some point you will need some credits to hire new crew, repair some stuff

you will still find random crafting trash most likely sellable to NPCs on your station

And if everything else fails.. you can always get a mod with Pleasure Center station module producing workforce