Taxation in the X Universe

[csaba]

I think what some people don't understand here is what it takes to make such a "fluff" feature in a game under development. By fluff I mean non-core gameplay related behavior and I'm stressing the under development part.


While the coding might take a few hours the thing is:

- First you have to propose it
- then you have to brainstorm it's details
- then code
- then simulate and test
- might break another code you have to fix
- might break cause the game code changes rapidly and you have to start over
- probably taking weeks to perfect

Just look at how many mods need rework each patch cause a rouge line of code was changed. Now apply this to a game under constant change on a weekly basis. It is easier for modders to add such fluff features cause the game is already in a somewhat stable state.

Since these features are not necessary for the core gameplay they just unnecessarily extend the development cycle.

Look at Star Citizen. Each year they add some new fluff like facial recognition and 3d whisky with ice cubes this year that probably gave the 3d model team nightmares, and probably broke the player modell several times.


And they still don't have Mass traffic or working npc ships.

See Egosoft also ads such features but they are limiting it to the few things like mass traffic and red holo dancers. If they add our every whish like the above mentioned competitor game we would have to expect X4 to release in 2030 not this year.

[Falcrack]

There surely has to be a gameplay or immersion purpose for any regular payment system (taxation or wages) introduced. What gameplay aspects or playstyle decisions are to be affected here?

Is it intended to limit the rate of player asset expansion in the early game? (In mid to late game such costs would probably be lost in player account 'noise' and be disregarded).

Is it more an early game crew/asset skill/quality control aspect? Do you use cheaper less skilled crew/assets to save on training, upgrading and costs and take some greater commercial and asset risks as a direct result, or do you go as soon as possible with fewer and more expensive elite crew manning fewer high-rated assets but with better individual results and safety?

Without an intended gameplay purpose I wouldn't understand the point of added financial micromanagement just for its own sake - in my personal opinion.

(Devious thought - a new station NPC trade called 'Financial Advisor' that submits tax exemptions and rebates on crew salaries. The more skilled the advisor, the lower the payments. )

It adds a challenge, to keep the owner of a large empire on their toes to make sure they are making money continually to support all their various owned ships and assets, rather than simply be able to sit back and rest easy after aquiring them all. That is the gameplay purpose for regular wages/taxes/maintenance fees. I would definitely be interested in a mod for this.

[pref]

keep the owner of a large empire on their toes to make sure they are making money continually to support all their various owned ships and assets, rather than simply be able to sit back and rest easy after aquiring them all

This is already there, your ships cannot trade without cash, stations stop producing without resources etc.. and your whole empire breaks down. This sit back thing only works if you have a self sustaining empire, but at that level some minor tax would vanish in your budget anyway. And such a huge infrastructure needs constant attention anyway.
What else motivation would the player need to earn more profits?
If random employees leave your services because of low budget, it would only add to the tedium factor having to replace them one by one - even if its just UI clicks, let alone having to travel there and handle the hire process personally.

Just having some extra regular payment as a function of ships owned, or employees hired would only have a point in case ego messed up financial balancing of the game, but i would not make that assumption without even playing it.

And if you want that level of financial detail whats up with the income that never appear in the game, like rental fees on your stations, the tax they pay after commerce for you, services your stations provide for anyone stepping on your territory, etc. Another game could be built around this where population, general "happiness", maintenance costs, trade volume etc depend on how you handle gameplay, but that would require the player having the means to balance this as in a city simulator.
Having to pay wages or tax (to whom? you're the one who is in a situation to collect it later in the game) alone, without the rest of the mechanics where this feature would fit in and allow some kind of gameplay where things need to be thought out and balanced doesn't help the game become any better imo.

Maybe if the curve is too generous early in the game tax could serve as an incentive to have your own production in your own sector, but that again is only needed if the game is not well balanced as it is using other means.

[spankahontis]

keep the owner of a large empire on their toes to make sure they are making money continually to support all their various owned ships and assets, rather than simply be able to sit back and rest easy after aquiring them all

This is already there, your ships cannot trade without cash, stations stop producing without resources etc.. and your whole empire breaks down. This sit back thing only works if you have a self sustaining empire, but at that level some minor tax would vanish in your budget anyway. And such a huge infrastructure needs constant attention anyway.
What else motivation would the player need to earn more profits?
If random employees leave your services because of low budget, it would only add to the tedium factor having to replace them one by one - even if its just UI clicks, let alone having to travel there and handle the hire process personally.

Just having some extra regular payment as a function of ships owned, or employees hired would only have a point in case ego messed up financial balancing of the game, but i would not make that assumption without even playing it.

And if you want that level of financial detail whats up with the income that never appear in the game, like rental fees on your stations, the tax they pay after commerce for you, services your stations provide for anyone stepping on your territory, etc. Another game could be built around this where population, general "happiness", maintenance costs, trade volume etc depend on how you handle gameplay, but that would require the player having the means to balance this as in a city simulator.
Having to pay wages or tax (to whom? you're the one who is in a situation to collect it later in the game) alone, without the rest of the mechanics where this feature would fit in and allow some kind of gameplay where things need to be thought out and balanced doesn't help the game become any better imo.

Maybe if the curve is too generous early in the game tax could serve as an incentive to have your own production in your own sector, but that again is only needed if the game is not well balanced as it is using other means.

CBJ's Idea of the "Financial Advisor NPC" sounds the much better option, the F.Advisor can handle the pay of all your Employees, plus make money for you on the side in the ways of Tax Rebates, Stock Investments Etc. The more skill rating.. The better rewards/management of Employees.

And were not saying that Staff Abandon Ship, meaning you have to hire them personally, there is always ways to get around that, again a feature of the F.Advisor would be to hire staff for you. So I hear you that people found hiring staff in X:Rebirth tedious, (Not me) but acknowledge that those people exist and have stated as such in the past on these forums.

But an exciting by-product of Staff not getting paid, they can turn to Mutiny and steal your Trade Ship, which gives you exciting new options like they become a Pirate Faction and will flee with your ship into the Pirate Sectors, you can hunt them down with your Navy or let them run away, maintains the Pirate Economy and allows for new avenues of gameplay.
It doesn't have to be tedious to manage your Finances.
But a one off "Fee" for a Lifetime of service is a TERRIBLE Mechanic! They have not improved on it.

[Alan Phipps]

"CBJ's Idea .." No, I am not an advanced AGI …

[spankahontis]

"CBJ's Idea .." No, I am not an advanced AGI …

Reach for the Stars!!