What I really miss from X2 and X3

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Shy'la Nesthorn
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Shy'la Nesthorn » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 17:42

fipmip wrote:
Sat, 15. Dec 18, 04:34
Shy'la Nesthorn wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 19:14
I miss the TM class ships. I loved using them as mini, early game carriers
I see you in this sea of comments. In my opinion the osprey frigate is a direct upgrade to the X3 TM. a few more frigate options would be nice though
True but like, the TM ships were much MUCH cheaper then frigates. Also just like how they looked.

Infact that's another thing I miss about X3, the ship designs. The paranid have their old ship designs so that's cool. But the Teladi and the Argon ships look almost the exact same. I miss the like "who cares if it looks like a brick, it brings profit" look of the teladi ships and the "Hey that Royls Royce thing was kinda cool, let's do that with our ships" look for the argon. I hope when/if the boron are added their ships are still just grown fish and the split fly around in giant metal splinters still. The designs in X4 seem like, "Cartoony"?

X3AP Osprey, super industrial, sturdy looking ship:
https://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/08 ... efe133.jpg

X4 Osprey, goofy, just stepped out of a scifi cartoon looking ship:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lRVA786VMLI/hqdefault.jpg

vrod
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by vrod » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 19:38

I miss hearing the computer's voice telling me everything in the universe.
(Like how nutrient dense bofu nuggets are and how long a Boron could live off a single nugget.)

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Général Grievous
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Général Grievous » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 20:16

From X2, i miss:
- Paranid ships design and GOCD weapons
- Splits
- Borons
- Teladi ship design
- Real plot
- Music
- Khaaks letality :D
- The game difficulty. The harder is, the better is.

From X3, i miss:
- Music
- Terrans
- AA weapons
- Wenon and khaaks mission invasion.

From X Rebirth, i miss (sorry... :roll: )
- Capital ships warfare
- Capital ships designs (except for Teladis :D )
- Real mysterious plots :P
- Weapons

What i like the most in X4:
- Station construction / customization
- Ship customization
- Fighters designs (they are really cool)
- Cockpits
- Station design
- Music too!

I made this part for X4, because i don't want that @Ego think they made a bad game. It is nice, but it can be so much better. :D
Il vaut mieux mobiliser son intelligence sur des conneries plutot que de mobiliser sa connerie sur des choses intelligentes...

Shy'la Nesthorn
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Shy'la Nesthorn » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 21:31

I know people have already said music but:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi1M747Iw48

Specifically this song

Riccardoman
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Riccardoman » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 21:52

The developers just need to accept that their previous games had a lot of positive things in them
They should integrate all this previous features inside one big game, X4

Alexey, Finney and Petersen did always a great job with the soundtrack..... Why not repurpose all the previous tracks in this game like X3 did incorporate music from Xbtf and X2?

Tomonor
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Tomonor » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 22:42

Riccardoman wrote:
Mon, 17. Dec 18, 21:52
Alexey, Finney and Petersen did always a great job with the soundtrack..... Why not repurpose all the previous tracks in this game like X3 did incorporate music from Xbtf and X2?
Licensing? Narrative?

They probably don't want to throw out cash per sold product only so you can enjoy a few tracks that don't even fit the current standing of the universe, and are easily modded in anyway.
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Killjaeden
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Killjaeden » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 23:01

DeFragMe wrote:
Sat, 15. Dec 18, 14:17
Falcrack wrote:
Sat, 15. Dec 18, 14:08
I miss capital ships that feel massive in X3. The ones in X4 feel very small.
i actually thought that too in the beging, but after size checking... they are actually massiv (at least the Carrier) , if i remmeber right it was 2-3 S sized ships that fit the length of a M ship , it was around 5-6 ships size M that would fit the length of a L ship, and again 2-3 Size L ships for a XL ship ....

i seriously dont know why they feel so small when they are actually quite big, XL ship is around 35 S ships long.
Its simply because of the design style. Gigantic chunky modules (esp. turrets), and in general usually a squarish appearance makes it look small and like a toy or a cartoon ship, even though it is several hundred meters long. You could also called it "baby effect". Babies - their head and eyes are really large compared to their bodies - humans and animals alike. That makes them look cute. And we know they are tiny -> so everything with oversized, stubby features we draw paralells subconciencously to cute'sy tiny animal/human babies -> "baby effect". It's all about design perception. The glas of the canopy/cockpit/bridge play an enormously important part there. If it is too large you will think the ship looks small, because you immediately think of it as a kind of size reference to a normal human, unknowingly (drawing paralells to known things, like car windows and airplane cockpits).
The cockpits/bridges in X4 have huuge canopies/glasses and the rooms are in many cases super oversized. But from the outside you still think its a tiny ship, because of this automatic uncontrolled comparison to known things. When you then see a the player inside the cockpit from the outside, it looks like a bit of a joke because it suddenly breaks the illusion of the "small ship" - but it still looks off as a result - as if someone shrunk a human, or inflated the ship to twice the normal size.

If you take a X3 capital ship, remove the multi-window textures frequently found on the bridges and replace it with a single large glas panel and add the X4 turrets, the ship will look just as small as the ones in X4 do. X3 turrets (they where totally fugly ... ) are small and dont dominate the design of the ship. In X4 turrets and front weapons dominate the design alot.
Last edited by Killjaeden on Tue, 18. Dec 18, 00:21, edited 1 time in total.
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StevieLeeCole
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by StevieLeeCole » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 23:36

OTAS ships, especially the TM Class. My OTAS Zephyrus was my favorite all time player ship. Troop transport, cargo missions, abandoned ship, you name it, it delivered. Plus dirt cheap-- buy three and collect a few bail-out fighters and you have a formidable combat patrol.

hawkeye099
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by hawkeye099 » Tue, 18. Dec 18, 00:51

Missing:
- Most of the above
and

- UI with sorting (name, ship type), grouping (ship type, sector), filtering, highlighting (yellow/red markers in list in case of events) your own property, like the X3 Shift+P and it's tabs - well done there, felt like a real control panel
- navigating, controlling, commanding everything with keyboard only, and in a fast way. Still can remember some commands after years like Shift-C,1,6 to set ship to attack everything in current sector. Or mark a ship in the list with arrow keys, one by one, and just press F to see the freight, press I and you knew what the ship is doing. In 10 seconds you could check 30 ships in such way. X4 makes such tasks a horrible, overcomplicated clickfest with always 3-4 clicks too much.

But mostly:
- Goals and feeling of success
In X2/X3 you always had some goals/targets: The plot of course, side plots like Goner temple or the PHQ and such stuff. In TC/AP the interaction with the Terrans (where have THEY gone btw?). And that were big tasks, extremely statisfying when task is done, goal reached. Not like just dropping a ready PHQ after 5 min.

Quite everything had a purpose, always a bigger goal ahead. Station building, making money, creating complexes - all to achieve the next step upwards, be that the next/bigger station or ship (and it's equipment). I remember building a whole industry soley for PHQ construction.

And that complexes late game - were needed, not only for money but for a steady supply of missiles, shields and guns, mainly just to keep up and equip your M1s, M2s, M7Ms and M8s - in amounts the normal economy could never provide, so you had to do it yourself.

And you wanted these to be able to invade the Xenon sectors with those insane fleets of Ks or defeat the Terrans for example. And you wanted that for collecting the rare ships, wares, guns from them.

In X4 I feel like being dropped in an shallow, small sandbox, especially compared to X3. Weapons, missiles, shields are dumbed down to simple buttons and sliders, variety reduced to boring generic types which are the same for all races, meh. Nearly the same for ships.

So I'm doing some trade, reparing satellites, clearing mines - but for what? What am I doing there? And why?

Missing the bigger picture and long time motivation....

Ovni
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Ovni » Tue, 18. Dec 18, 05:46

I actually miss X2's story, because despite the awful cutscenes it managed to instill a sense of mystery and danger. None of the X3 plots did that for me from TC on, and X:Rebirth was mostly blabber about boring corporations.

But what I really miss most is things feeling fresh again I think. X2 was my first X game, and discovering the universe was a delight. But Egosoft recycle their content so much that the novelties weren't enough to make each successive release like a new game. I'm ready for a new game with nothing in common with the background and lore of X games... or perhaps a very tenuous link that's not obvious at first.
repatomonor wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 21:44
From X2, I miss:
-The BBS article system (could be replaced by NPC interactions/chatter/dock television or something along those lines - the important part of it would be to extend the life simulation with trivial things)
This x1000. The rumors of things happening in the galaxy gave so much illusion of life to the game, and I stopped playing shortly after finishing the campaign (to move to X3 which was supposedly better... ha!), so they had barely started to get repetitive. I think it's important to keep it as text (with perhaps a few more unique items voiced or with video) to keep it modder-friendly. Though writing is clearly not X modder's strong suit... I don't think there were ever mod additions to the BBS.

I was really hoping for a huge return of the BBS in X4, complete with all the advancements in procedural generation to present handmade articles intelligently, make it correspond to in-world events, and to generate some articles based on what's going on in the game's dynamic simulation. Alas, no sugar.
-The naming system and Zuran time. Having alpha-beta-gamma variations for weapons felt better than the Marking system. An alpha-beta-gamma-delta after station names felt more futuristic than Solar Power Plant I. I will be there in a mizura feels more alienese than the regular minutes, even though it was just the two words mixed up.
-The OP Kha'ak. They just simply worked better when they had the fierce Kyon technology that literally sliced up your ship in a mere seconds. I also miss their cluster separation animation.
I miss those two as well. The weird time system did add a lot of atmosphere. I'm not sure most people would be happy to see it back, but it's proof this series could benefits from elements like that that make the world feel alien. The games have become so dry starting with X3, with a brief resurgence of flavor in X Rebirth (unfortunately accompanied by awful game mechanics and story).

The Kha'ak are just pathetic in X4, I remember being terrified of their laser's sizzling sound in X2.

Altimis
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Altimis » Tue, 18. Dec 18, 06:50

What I really miss from X2 and 3?

Story missions. Seriously.

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grapedog
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by grapedog » Tue, 18. Dec 18, 06:56

Altimis wrote:
Tue, 18. Dec 18, 06:50
What I really miss from X2 and 3?

Story missions. Seriously.
Yeah, I would have liked more of a plot to drive me forward a little, towards events that would take place. Even if my name is Ban Dana....

darrund
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by darrund » Tue, 18. Dec 18, 09:37

Hmmm what do I miss thats a good one and I wish I knew where to start from.
I miss my Nova Raider, my Hyperion (best ship in x3 in my opinion), my Venti, the Yaki, the weapon choices (especially PBGs), the Blastclaws, the Split Tiger (and panther) and believe it or not I miss "the HUB" (never thought i would say that especially if you were asking that back in the day!).
I general i miss alot of things (even that lost little girl in the announcements lol).
However i feel confident that given time (and some expansions) this game has a lot of potential and it can become great even compared with x3 :wink:

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JamesTheClarke
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by JamesTheClarke » Tue, 18. Dec 18, 13:34

DonHose wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 17:56
Dreez wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 17:49
Split.
Boron.
Real capitalclass ships.
Real frigateclass ships.
Faction-specific weapons and shipdesigns.
Ability to move crew and wares between ships, docked or in space.
Non-randomly spawned Derelic ships.
I really hope they will do all that stuff in upcoming patches... I really do...
So do I, but since I haven't seen any direct response from a dev regarding this I've kinda resigned to the depressing prospects of X taking the Civilization approach where we will have to buy DLC's in order to get the game to the same size as its predecessor. When I read about the release of X4 a few months ago I knew that half the main cast would not be on release but I clung to the hope that the phrase "new races will be included in expansions" referred to actually new major races, not the ones that were part of every X game so far. Thus I thought they might pop up over the next few months as free content updates.

But I think it's very likely by now that the next two expansions will be paid patches to get the X4 back to the state where X3 AP left it.

repatomonor wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 21:44
From X2, I miss:
-The BBS article system (could be replaced by NPC interactions/chatter/dock television or something along those lines - the important part of it would be to extend the life simulation with trivial things)
-The distant engine lighting (you could see the engine light of each ship blinking in the distance, even if they were on the other side of the sector, it was especially awesome looking in the nebula-dense sectors, where you could pretty much only see the lights reflected by the engines)
-The map. There's no sugarcoating it, the classic X2 map was simply the best. It had the core regions around the North-West area, and the expansion regions from the South-East area, having riskier routes and other threats, like Xenon sectors. It felt just right.
-The sector designs. Those were also spot-on in X2.
-The OP Kha'ak. They just simply worked better when they had the fierce Kyon technology that literally sliced up your ship in a mere seconds. I also miss their cluster separation animation.
-The harder career ladder. I remember I had to trade for months to be able to afford a decent ship and mission providers were picky. If I had no decent trade/fight rank, I couldn't even take the mission, let alone do it.

From X3, I miss:
-The entirety of the ship designs. X3 had the most prominent designs known to the X-series. While you could choose your favourite ships from X2, XR, and X4, in X3 every ship's look felt right and closer to its owner race. Except for the fat Perseus.
-The weapon variety starting from X3TC.
-I know this is controversial today, but slave trading. Piracy comes with evil things sometimes, and boy was I a pirate.
-The pronunciation of Omicron Lyra. Omicron Lyree. Omicron Lüré... Whatever.
-The USC ships. Surprised it isn't trademarked by Apple.
Yes to all of this. Plus Yaki, Goners, ATF, OTAS just proper sub-factions that feel like they are something existing on their own but part of the universe. The Antigone Republic in comparions is an Argon copy paste job with minor stat changes and a couple of slightly different ship variants.

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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Babberdeggl » Tue, 18. Dec 18, 19:26

I hope Egosoft is reading this thread and stop being like X2/3 were the plague. I don't get why they ditched so much good stuff. They had such rad games going on before Rebirth. They really should think about what people are missing from previous games. I miss everything what already was written above

normntaz
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by normntaz » Wed, 19. Dec 18, 00:11

hawkeye099 wrote:
Tue, 18. Dec 18, 00:51
...
And that complexes late game - were needed, not only for money but for a steady supply of missiles, shields and guns, mainly just to keep up and equip your M1s, M2s, M7Ms and M8s - in amounts the normal economy could never provide, so you had to do it yourself.
...
In X4 I feel like being dropped in an shallow, small sandbox, especially compared to X3. Weapons, missiles, shields are dumbed down to simple buttons and sliders, variety reduced to boring generic types which are the same for all races, meh. Nearly the same for ships.
...
Missing the bigger picture and long time motivation....
I loved the fact that I had to basically build a whole economy to arm and resupply my fleet.

I also liked the ability to scavenge equipment after a battle, and move it from ship to ship.

Finally, I miss having a real motivation to create a fleet or even buy a capital ship.

aurumgallente
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by aurumgallente » Thu, 18. Mar 21, 12:51

repatomonor wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 21:44
From X2, I miss:
-The BBS article system (could be replaced by NPC interactions/chatter/dock television or something along those lines - the important part of it would be to extend the life simulation with trivial things)
-The ship designs (I know it's up for preference but I miss the curves of the Buzzard, the special look of the Nova/Buster/Discoverer/Centaur/Dragon, the badessary of the Titan/Python/Scorpion/Phoenix, the odd Ray/Hydra/Octopus designs)
-The distant engine lighting (you could see the engine light of each ship blinking in the distance, even if they were on the other side of the sector, it was especially awesome looking in the nebula-dense sectors, where you could pretty much only see the lights reflected by the engines)
-The map. There's no sugarcoating it, the classic X2 map was simply the best. It had the core regions around the North-West area, and the expansion regions from the South-East area, having riskier routes and other threats, like Xenon sectors. It felt just right.
-The sector designs. Those were also spot-on in X2.
-The naming system and Zuran time. Having alpha-beta-gamma variations for weapons felt better than the Marking system. An alpha-beta-gamma-delta after station names felt more futuristic than Solar Power Plant I. I will be there in a mizura feels more alienese than the regular minutes, even though it was just the two words mixed up.
-The OP Kha'ak. They just simply worked better when they had the fierce Kyon technology that literally sliced up your ship in a mere seconds. I also miss their cluster separation animation.
-The harder career ladder. I remember I had to trade for months to be able to afford a decent ship and mission providers were picky. If I had no decent trade/fight rank, I couldn't even take the mission, let alone do it.

From X3, I miss:
-The entirety of the ship designs. X3 had the most prominent designs known to the X-series. While you could choose your favourite ships from X2, XR, and X4, in X3 every ship's look felt right and closer to its owner race. Except for the fat Perseus.
-The weapon variety starting from X3TC.
-I know this is controversial today, but slave trading. Piracy comes with evil things sometimes, and boy was I a pirate.
-The pronunciation of Omicron Lyra. Omicron Lyree. Omicron Lüré... Whatever.
-The USC ships. Surprised it isn't trademarked by Apple.

From XR, I miss:
-The soundtrack. Whatever you say about that game, Alexei peeked right there. And it's such a shame.
You can download my X2 ship pack. It already has Buzzard, Nova, Buster, Disco, Centaur, Dragon, Scorpion, Phoenix.

CBJ
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by CBJ » Thu, 18. Mar 21, 12:54

Very nice, but I'm guessing that they're not still waiting for an answer over two years later. ;)

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