What I really miss from X2 and X3

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lordmuck
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by lordmuck » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 02:12

repatomonor wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 21:44
From X2, I miss:
-The BBS article system (could be replaced by NPC interactions/chatter/dock television or something along those lines - the important part of it would be to extend the life simulation with trivial things)
-The ship designs (I know it's up for preference but I miss the curves of the Buzzard, the special look of the Nova/Buster/Discoverer/Centaur/Dragon, the badessary of the Titan/Python/Scorpion/Phoenix, the odd Ray/Hydra/Octopus designs)
-The distant engine lighting (you could see the engine light of each ship blinking in the distance, even if they were on the other side of the sector, it was especially awesome looking in the nebula-dense sectors, where you could pretty much only see the lights reflected by the engines)
-The map. There's no sugarcoating it, the classic X2 map was simply the best. It had the core regions around the North-West area, and the expansion regions from the South-East area, having riskier routes and other threats, like Xenon sectors. It felt just right.
-The sector designs. Those were also spot-on in X2.
-The naming system and Zuran time. Having alpha-beta-gamma variations for weapons felt better than the Marking system. An alpha-beta-gamma-delta after station names felt more futuristic than Solar Power Plant I. I will be there in a mizura feels more alienese than the regular minutes, even though it was just the two words mixed up.
-The OP Kha'ak. They just simply worked better when they had the fierce Kyon technology that literally sliced up your ship in a mere seconds. I also miss their cluster separation animation.
-The harder career ladder. I remember I had to trade for months to be able to afford a decent ship and mission providers were picky. If I had no decent trade/fight rank, I couldn't even take the mission, let alone do it.

From X3, I miss:
-The entirety of the ship designs. X3 had the most prominent designs known to the X-series. While you could choose your favourite ships from X2, XR, and X4, in X3 every ship's look felt right and closer to its owner race. Except for the fat Perseus.
-The weapon variety starting from X3TC.
-I know this is controversial today, but slave trading. Piracy comes with evil things sometimes, and boy was I a pirate.
-The pronunciation of Omicron Lyra. Omicron Lyree. Omicron Lüré... Whatever.
-The USC ships. Surprised it isn't trademarked by Apple.

From XR, I miss:
-The soundtrack. Whatever you say about that game, Alexei peeked right there. And it's such a shame.
I miss all the above.
The epic grind fest for the PHQ, making money took a while, unless you sent with nividum in a constructor and sold it with the nvidium inside.. So I mean legit means not exploitish methods of getting money like X2 X3 not counting DLC the base game already blasts x4 out of the water.

from XR I miss the "need" to take out surface targets on enemy ships, that was the only thing I liked from XR
You can totally get rid of the whole walking around stations as a must to talk to certain people, so I miss that from X3 comms all the way .. even if we only had to dock..

X3
I miss the feeling of working for a fleet in X3, I miss that each ship had a use. Id keep a carrier near by to drop bailouts from gates I would have my ships protect, Id also keep some thing to pick up drops in the sectors too, a mix of classes all being used together.
I miss that in X3 you had to start small and advancing took a while.
I miss the fighters that came in all tastes, more shielding? speed? 2 turrets ? 1? etc..
I miss turrets that hit missiles when put on missile defence.
I miss all the styles fitting lore but thats mentioned above.
I miss all the types of weapons we could choose from
I miss the mass amounts of turrets we had
I miss the fact that a m3 cannot kill a destroyer in the first 5mins of the game.
I miss the PSG's and the other electric like weapon that hits every friendly, making them agro and you need to reload rofl
I miss the scale of ships, flying a scout across the dish of a SPP. That made you feel small and more so when passing the "end game" stuff.
I miss the story and lore.. its all lost now, empty shell, diluted down to nearly an arcade.
I miss the feeling that any slight increase be it ship upgrade, a weapon, a new M3+ was epic and rewarding, let alone capping a M6 or buying one ! that stuff got me addicted more to the game the feeling that you have advanced. In this its like MEH what ever next please.
I do miss jump drives, the need to store energy cells with you and stuff like that, AMMO biased weapons, the need to resupply fleets, logistics
I miss the in depth info on your traders / stations
I miss the pirates having ramshackle ships from other factions / or so they looked like..
I miss some weapons being faction biased
Most of all I miss the X3 Ship models, all of them in comparison to x4 :/
Bah I could keep on going

fipmip
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by fipmip » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 04:34

Shy'la Nesthorn wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 19:14
I miss the TM class ships. I loved using them as mini, early game carriers
I see you in this sea of comments. In my opinion the osprey frigate is a direct upgrade to the X3 TM. a few more frigate options would be nice though

Cerbius Nirin
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Cerbius Nirin » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 04:59

Hey CBJ, Egosoft and fellow Captains,

I always thought that the 'Betty' voice was synthetic, my mistake.

Maybe the way to go in the perhaps 'distant' future would be to use one of those 'text to speech' algorithms like the accessibility voice modulator for people with visual impairments.

I know they can sound a bit robotic but in this case it might work well and that would mean only text is required and the guys at Egosoft get a break for once ;)

Although I can see myself giving my ships rude names for the comical value that would bring! :D :D

Cheers

Cerb

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grapedog
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by grapedog » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 05:19

I want so much to hear the my ships voice say Teladianianianium.

Cerbius Nirin
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Cerbius Nirin » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 05:31

grapedog wrote:
Sat, 15. Dec 18, 05:19
I want so much to hear the my ships voice say Teladianianianium.
haha :)

or perhaps Who killed my "Teladi Space Weeeeeeeeed wonderbus!!"

Could even allow for player-made encyclopedia entries, oh the possibilities!

shealladh
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by shealladh » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 12:46

lordmuck wrote:
Sat, 15. Dec 18, 02:12
repatomonor wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 21:44
From X2, I miss:
-The BBS article system (could be replaced by NPC interactions/chatter/dock television or something along those lines - the important part of it would be to extend the life simulation with trivial things)
-The ship designs (I know it's up for preference but I miss the curves of the Buzzard, the special look of the Nova/Buster/Discoverer/Centaur/Dragon, the badessary of the Titan/Python/Scorpion/Phoenix, the odd Ray/Hydra/Octopus designs)
-The distant engine lighting (you could see the engine light of each ship blinking in the distance, even if they were on the other side of the sector, it was especially awesome looking in the nebula-dense sectors, where you could pretty much only see the lights reflected by the engines)
-The map. There's no sugarcoating it, the classic X2 map was simply the best. It had the core regions around the North-West area, and the expansion regions from the South-East area, having riskier routes and other threats, like Xenon sectors. It felt just right.
-The sector designs. Those were also spot-on in X2.
-The naming system and Zuran time. Having alpha-beta-gamma variations for weapons felt better than the Marking system. An alpha-beta-gamma-delta after station names felt more futuristic than Solar Power Plant I. I will be there in a mizura feels more alienese than the regular minutes, even though it was just the two words mixed up.
-The OP Kha'ak. They just simply worked better when they had the fierce Kyon technology that literally sliced up your ship in a mere seconds. I also miss their cluster separation animation.
-The harder career ladder. I remember I had to trade for months to be able to afford a decent ship and mission providers were picky. If I had no decent trade/fight rank, I couldn't even take the mission, let alone do it.

From X3, I miss:
-The entirety of the ship designs. X3 had the most prominent designs known to the X-series. While you could choose your favourite ships from X2, XR, and X4, in X3 every ship's look felt right and closer to its owner race. Except for the fat Perseus.
-The weapon variety starting from X3TC.
-I know this is controversial today, but slave trading. Piracy comes with evil things sometimes, and boy was I a pirate.
-The pronunciation of Omicron Lyra. Omicron Lyree. Omicron Lüré... Whatever.
-The USC ships. Surprised it isn't trademarked by Apple.

From XR, I miss:
-The soundtrack. Whatever you say about that game, Alexei peeked right there. And it's such a shame.
I miss all the above.
The epic grind fest for the PHQ, making money took a while, unless you sent with nividum in a constructor and sold it with the nvidium inside.. So I mean legit means not exploitish methods of getting money like X2 X3 not counting DLC the base game already blasts x4 out of the water.

from XR I miss the "need" to take out surface targets on enemy ships, that was the only thing I liked from XR
You can totally get rid of the whole walking around stations as a must to talk to certain people, so I miss that from X3 comms all the way .. even if we only had to dock..

X3
I miss the feeling of working for a fleet in X3, I miss that each ship had a use. Id keep a carrier near by to drop bailouts from gates I would have my ships protect, Id also keep some thing to pick up drops in the sectors too, a mix of classes all being used together.
I miss that in X3 you had to start small and advancing took a while.
I miss the fighters that came in all tastes, more shielding? speed? 2 turrets ? 1? etc..
I miss turrets that hit missiles when put on missile defence.
I miss all the styles fitting lore but thats mentioned above.
I miss all the types of weapons we could choose from
I miss the mass amounts of turrets we had
I miss the fact that a m3 cannot kill a destroyer in the first 5mins of the game.
I miss the PSG's and the other electric like weapon that hits every friendly, making them agro and you need to reload rofl
I miss the scale of ships, flying a scout across the dish of a SPP. That made you feel small and more so when passing the "end game" stuff.
I miss the story and lore.. its all lost now, empty shell, diluted down to nearly an arcade.
I miss the feeling that any slight increase be it ship upgrade, a weapon, a new M3+ was epic and rewarding, let alone capping a M6 or buying one ! that stuff got me addicted more to the game the feeling that you have advanced. In this its like MEH what ever next please.
I do miss jump drives, the need to store energy cells with you and stuff like that, AMMO biased weapons, the need to resupply fleets, logistics
I miss the in depth info on your traders / stations
I miss the pirates having ramshackle ships from other factions / or so they looked like..
I miss some weapons being faction biased
Most of all I miss the X3 Ship models, all of them in comparison to x4 :/
Bah I could keep on going
Yep the list is never-ending (TM)

So many of the above.
For me, it the thrill of Commanding Orders in your fleet and then jumping into a Sector to fight an enemy Xenon or Pirate fleet, grab there loot and jump out.

Closest I got to this is an adjoining sector to Xenon space and shooting a Destroyer (in my first ship :p) and waiting for it to follow me with it's fighters, wait for the troops to come save the invasion, and run around collecting their loot. Got 8 mill in no time.

My other pet peve is waiting for basic things to be implemented, who ever thought this change to the UI, MAP, and such need to look back at what we all liked about X Series, and listen to us fan bois

Falcrack
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Falcrack » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 14:08

I miss capital ships that feel massive in X3. The ones in X4 feel very small.

I also miss the ability to give orders for my units along all 3 axes.

Finally, I miss lists. I like seeing ship and property info arranged in a big list like in X3. Easier to access in my opinion that the map in X4. I miss the trade deals list seen in X Rebirth, why did that have to go? That was an improvement upon X3.

Falcrack
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Falcrack » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 14:13

CBJ wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 17:55
DonHose wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 17:50
Ok thank you for a clarification. But what about message boards on the sations and the soundtrack?
I don't think there are plans for message boards but, as Bernd mentioned in the video, we'll be making it easier to find missions by asking NPCs.

As for the soundtrack, I'm sorry to hear that you don't like it, but Alexei has been working on the soundtracks for several games. Again, as far as I know, we have no plans to add tracks from previous games, but you have the usual options of either modifying the game to use different music or simply turning off the music and playing the old soundtracks in your preferred music player while you play.
I recall a youtube video where Bernd was playing a bit of X4 a while back, while discussing the soundtrack with Alexi. Bernd was telling him he wanted more atmospheric music and not melodic. I think Alexi took that advice too much to heart, and as a result, the music does not have some of the great melodies that I remember from some of the X3 sectors.

DeFragMe
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by DeFragMe » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 14:17

Falcrack wrote:
Sat, 15. Dec 18, 14:08
I miss capital ships that feel massive in X3. The ones in X4 feel very small.
i actually thought that too in the beging, but after size checking... they are actually massiv (at least the Carrier) , if i remmeber right it was 2-3 S sized ships that fit the length of a M ship , it was around 5-6 ships size M that would fit the length of a L ship, and again 2-3 Size L ships for a XL ship ....

i seriously dont know why they feel so small when they are actually quite big, XL ship is around 35 S ships long.

Tattoonation
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Tattoonation » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 15:20

DeFragMe wrote:
Sat, 15. Dec 18, 14:17
Falcrack wrote:
Sat, 15. Dec 18, 14:08
I miss capital ships that feel massive in X3. The ones in X4 feel very small.
i actually thought that too in the beging, but after size checking... they are actually massiv (at least the Carrier) , if i remmeber right it was 2-3 S sized ships that fit the length of a M ship , it was around 5-6 ships size M that would fit the length of a L ship, and again 2-3 Size L ships for a XL ship ....

i seriously dont know why they feel so small when they are actually quite big, XL ship is around 35 S ships long.
IMaybe it can be explained with a larger field of View?

If we have a bigger FOV in X4 than in X3, we would automatically get the impression that ships are smaller, even though they are bigger.
X2-Illuminatus wrote:
Fri, 14. Dec 18, 23:34
Wer enttäuscht vom Spiel ist, darf das hier äußern und muss sich nicht anhören (respektive lesen), welche Fehler oder Unzulänglichkeiten man aushalten soll. Solche Kommentare also bitte hier sein lassen.

Shy'la Nesthorn
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Shy'la Nesthorn » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 17:42

fipmip wrote:
Sat, 15. Dec 18, 04:34
Shy'la Nesthorn wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 19:14
I miss the TM class ships. I loved using them as mini, early game carriers
I see you in this sea of comments. In my opinion the osprey frigate is a direct upgrade to the X3 TM. a few more frigate options would be nice though
True but like, the TM ships were much MUCH cheaper then frigates. Also just like how they looked.

Infact that's another thing I miss about X3, the ship designs. The paranid have their old ship designs so that's cool. But the Teladi and the Argon ships look almost the exact same. I miss the like "who cares if it looks like a brick, it brings profit" look of the teladi ships and the "Hey that Royls Royce thing was kinda cool, let's do that with our ships" look for the argon. I hope when/if the boron are added their ships are still just grown fish and the split fly around in giant metal splinters still. The designs in X4 seem like, "Cartoony"?

X3AP Osprey, super industrial, sturdy looking ship:
https://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/08 ... efe133.jpg

X4 Osprey, goofy, just stepped out of a scifi cartoon looking ship:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lRVA786VMLI/hqdefault.jpg

vrod
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by vrod » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 19:38

I miss hearing the computer's voice telling me everything in the universe.
(Like how nutrient dense bofu nuggets are and how long a Boron could live off a single nugget.)

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Général Grievous
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Général Grievous » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 20:16

From X2, i miss:
- Paranid ships design and GOCD weapons
- Splits
- Borons
- Teladi ship design
- Real plot
- Music
- Khaaks letality :D
- The game difficulty. The harder is, the better is.

From X3, i miss:
- Music
- Terrans
- AA weapons
- Wenon and khaaks mission invasion.

From X Rebirth, i miss (sorry... :roll: )
- Capital ships warfare
- Capital ships designs (except for Teladis :D )
- Real mysterious plots :P
- Weapons

What i like the most in X4:
- Station construction / customization
- Ship customization
- Fighters designs (they are really cool)
- Cockpits
- Station design
- Music too!

I made this part for X4, because i don't want that @Ego think they made a bad game. It is nice, but it can be so much better. :D
Il vaut mieux mobiliser son intelligence sur des conneries plutot que de mobiliser sa connerie sur des choses intelligentes...

Shy'la Nesthorn
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Shy'la Nesthorn » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 21:31

I know people have already said music but:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi1M747Iw48

Specifically this song

Riccardoman
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Riccardoman » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 21:52

The developers just need to accept that their previous games had a lot of positive things in them
They should integrate all this previous features inside one big game, X4

Alexey, Finney and Petersen did always a great job with the soundtrack..... Why not repurpose all the previous tracks in this game like X3 did incorporate music from Xbtf and X2?

Tomonor
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Tomonor » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 22:42

Riccardoman wrote:
Mon, 17. Dec 18, 21:52
Alexey, Finney and Petersen did always a great job with the soundtrack..... Why not repurpose all the previous tracks in this game like X3 did incorporate music from Xbtf and X2?
Licensing? Narrative?

They probably don't want to throw out cash per sold product only so you can enjoy a few tracks that don't even fit the current standing of the universe, and are easily modded in anyway.
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Killjaeden
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Killjaeden » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 23:01

DeFragMe wrote:
Sat, 15. Dec 18, 14:17
Falcrack wrote:
Sat, 15. Dec 18, 14:08
I miss capital ships that feel massive in X3. The ones in X4 feel very small.
i actually thought that too in the beging, but after size checking... they are actually massiv (at least the Carrier) , if i remmeber right it was 2-3 S sized ships that fit the length of a M ship , it was around 5-6 ships size M that would fit the length of a L ship, and again 2-3 Size L ships for a XL ship ....

i seriously dont know why they feel so small when they are actually quite big, XL ship is around 35 S ships long.
Its simply because of the design style. Gigantic chunky modules (esp. turrets), and in general usually a squarish appearance makes it look small and like a toy or a cartoon ship, even though it is several hundred meters long. You could also called it "baby effect". Babies - their head and eyes are really large compared to their bodies - humans and animals alike. That makes them look cute. And we know they are tiny -> so everything with oversized, stubby features we draw paralells subconciencously to cute'sy tiny animal/human babies -> "baby effect". It's all about design perception. The glas of the canopy/cockpit/bridge play an enormously important part there. If it is too large you will think the ship looks small, because you immediately think of it as a kind of size reference to a normal human, unknowingly (drawing paralells to known things, like car windows and airplane cockpits).
The cockpits/bridges in X4 have huuge canopies/glasses and the rooms are in many cases super oversized. But from the outside you still think its a tiny ship, because of this automatic uncontrolled comparison to known things. When you then see a the player inside the cockpit from the outside, it looks like a bit of a joke because it suddenly breaks the illusion of the "small ship" - but it still looks off as a result - as if someone shrunk a human, or inflated the ship to twice the normal size.

If you take a X3 capital ship, remove the multi-window textures frequently found on the bridges and replace it with a single large glas panel and add the X4 turrets, the ship will look just as small as the ones in X4 do. X3 turrets (they where totally fugly ... ) are small and dont dominate the design of the ship. In X4 turrets and front weapons dominate the design alot.
Last edited by Killjaeden on Tue, 18. Dec 18, 00:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by StevieLeeCole » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 23:36

OTAS ships, especially the TM Class. My OTAS Zephyrus was my favorite all time player ship. Troop transport, cargo missions, abandoned ship, you name it, it delivered. Plus dirt cheap-- buy three and collect a few bail-out fighters and you have a formidable combat patrol.

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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by hawkeye099 » Tue, 18. Dec 18, 00:51

Missing:
- Most of the above
and

- UI with sorting (name, ship type), grouping (ship type, sector), filtering, highlighting (yellow/red markers in list in case of events) your own property, like the X3 Shift+P and it's tabs - well done there, felt like a real control panel
- navigating, controlling, commanding everything with keyboard only, and in a fast way. Still can remember some commands after years like Shift-C,1,6 to set ship to attack everything in current sector. Or mark a ship in the list with arrow keys, one by one, and just press F to see the freight, press I and you knew what the ship is doing. In 10 seconds you could check 30 ships in such way. X4 makes such tasks a horrible, overcomplicated clickfest with always 3-4 clicks too much.

But mostly:
- Goals and feeling of success
In X2/X3 you always had some goals/targets: The plot of course, side plots like Goner temple or the PHQ and such stuff. In TC/AP the interaction with the Terrans (where have THEY gone btw?). And that were big tasks, extremely statisfying when task is done, goal reached. Not like just dropping a ready PHQ after 5 min.

Quite everything had a purpose, always a bigger goal ahead. Station building, making money, creating complexes - all to achieve the next step upwards, be that the next/bigger station or ship (and it's equipment). I remember building a whole industry soley for PHQ construction.

And that complexes late game - were needed, not only for money but for a steady supply of missiles, shields and guns, mainly just to keep up and equip your M1s, M2s, M7Ms and M8s - in amounts the normal economy could never provide, so you had to do it yourself.

And you wanted these to be able to invade the Xenon sectors with those insane fleets of Ks or defeat the Terrans for example. And you wanted that for collecting the rare ships, wares, guns from them.

In X4 I feel like being dropped in an shallow, small sandbox, especially compared to X3. Weapons, missiles, shields are dumbed down to simple buttons and sliders, variety reduced to boring generic types which are the same for all races, meh. Nearly the same for ships.

So I'm doing some trade, reparing satellites, clearing mines - but for what? What am I doing there? And why?

Missing the bigger picture and long time motivation....

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Re: What I really miss from X2 and X3

Post by Ovni » Tue, 18. Dec 18, 05:46

I actually miss X2's story, because despite the awful cutscenes it managed to instill a sense of mystery and danger. None of the X3 plots did that for me from TC on, and X:Rebirth was mostly blabber about boring corporations.

But what I really miss most is things feeling fresh again I think. X2 was my first X game, and discovering the universe was a delight. But Egosoft recycle their content so much that the novelties weren't enough to make each successive release like a new game. I'm ready for a new game with nothing in common with the background and lore of X games... or perhaps a very tenuous link that's not obvious at first.
repatomonor wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 21:44
From X2, I miss:
-The BBS article system (could be replaced by NPC interactions/chatter/dock television or something along those lines - the important part of it would be to extend the life simulation with trivial things)
This x1000. The rumors of things happening in the galaxy gave so much illusion of life to the game, and I stopped playing shortly after finishing the campaign (to move to X3 which was supposedly better... ha!), so they had barely started to get repetitive. I think it's important to keep it as text (with perhaps a few more unique items voiced or with video) to keep it modder-friendly. Though writing is clearly not X modder's strong suit... I don't think there were ever mod additions to the BBS.

I was really hoping for a huge return of the BBS in X4, complete with all the advancements in procedural generation to present handmade articles intelligently, make it correspond to in-world events, and to generate some articles based on what's going on in the game's dynamic simulation. Alas, no sugar.
-The naming system and Zuran time. Having alpha-beta-gamma variations for weapons felt better than the Marking system. An alpha-beta-gamma-delta after station names felt more futuristic than Solar Power Plant I. I will be there in a mizura feels more alienese than the regular minutes, even though it was just the two words mixed up.
-The OP Kha'ak. They just simply worked better when they had the fierce Kyon technology that literally sliced up your ship in a mere seconds. I also miss their cluster separation animation.
I miss those two as well. The weird time system did add a lot of atmosphere. I'm not sure most people would be happy to see it back, but it's proof this series could benefits from elements like that that make the world feel alien. The games have become so dry starting with X3, with a brief resurgence of flavor in X Rebirth (unfortunately accompanied by awful game mechanics and story).

The Kha'ak are just pathetic in X4, I remember being terrified of their laser's sizzling sound in X2.

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