What is the incentive to play?

[Traith]

Oh, but I see the difference clearly. One is and has been working in 6 games, one does not and will never work. And can you imagine there are people who do not give a damn about wars? I do not want to fight Paranid, Argon, Teladi, (Split or Boron) just because someone made the whole economy based on this. Not when there are Xenon and Khaak to fight. Who, btw, do not need any of these missing resources...
And why should I find solutions for a broken economy? Is it my problem there are not ANY engine parts factories in Paranid space? Is it my problem that I have found only one such a factory in Argon prime that has about 1000 of them in stock while all stations I have found so far need about 5000? So, genius, what is the solution for a player who just started and wants to buy some new ship, but can not? What is really funny that such a problem was not in any prevous X games except, surprisingly, Rebirth.
What I really do not get are people who are happy to have a "foundation" with a hope that "it will be fixed sometime" Well, it will not. Especialy when anything depends on that stupid WAR system they came up with.

Why should you find solutions for a broken economy? To make money.

Is it your problem there are not any engine parts factories in Paranid space? It's your opportunity to do the above, and isn't a problem if you don't care to buy ships there.

Is it your problem that Argon prime has an engine parts factory but can't supply the whole universe? Again, it's your opportunity.

What is the solution for a player who just started and wants to buy a new ship? As your requested genius, I give you two options based on the information presented... 1. Build an engine parts factory instead. 2. Buy it in Argon Prime.

To answer your underlying question, which is why does a space simulator need a dynamic economy? Because real space would have a dynamic economy. It sounds like you would prefer a space flight simulator, which is a completely different thing. It's a sandbox. Play in it. Build a sandcastle (preferably one that produces engine parts). Enjoy X4:"FOUNDATIONS" and watch what Egosoft builds it into, then enjoy that. Or don't. That's fine too. It's your sandbox.

[CaptainX4]

I just don't see any reason to play and if I have to force myself I know something is wrong with the game.

Try so called guild missions. They are complex and give some directions. And may start conflict in some areas in which you will be highly affiliated.

guild missions are complex? they are just generic missions grouped together dont even mention that if they are bugged at any point you can just drop all of it

Why should you find solutions for a broken economy? To make money.

Is it your problem there are not any engine parts factories in Paranid space? It's your opportunity to do the above, and isn't a problem if you don't care to buy ships there.

Is it your problem that Argon prime has an engine parts factory but can't supply the whole universe? Again, it's your opportunity.

What is the solution for a player who just started and wants to buy a new ship? As your requested genius, I give you two options based on the information presented... 1. Build an engine parts factory instead. 2. Buy it in Argon Prime.

To answer your underlying question, which is why does a space simulator need a dynamic economy? Because real space would have a dynamic economy. It sounds like you would prefer a space flight simulator, which is a completely different thing. It's a sandbox. Play in it. Build a sandcastle (preferably one that produces engine parts). Enjoy X4:"FOUNDATIONS" and watch what Egosoft builds it into, then enjoy that. Or don't. That's fine too. It's your sandbox.

you well seen dont get the problem.

"Is it your problem there are not any engine parts factories in Paranid space? It's your opportunity to do the above, and isn't a problem if you don't care to buy ships there." no the problem is that the paranids cant buy ships either, the paranids will stall, and their war will collapse. if im only interested in the combat and war option why should I fuel their economy?

"What is the solution for a player who just started and wants to buy a new ship? As your requested genius, I give you two options based on the information presented... 1. Build an engine parts factory instead. 2. Buy it in Argon Prime." what if i dont want to, genius? what if i need a ship to carry the resources to build an engine parts factory but i cant buy a ship because there isnt any? ignorance wont help.

" It's your sandbox." no, it actually isnt. a sandbox is working on its own without the player and the player is put into that world to play with. when you are forced to fix the world to be able to play in it is NOT a sandbox

[LordFlinx]

you well seen dont get the problem.
... no the problem is that the paranids cant buy ships either, the paranids will stall, and their war will collapse. if im only interested in the combat and war option why should I fuel their economy.

Answer : It you are “only“ ( or even mostly ) interested in combat you might try playing a mostly combat oriented and probably MMO oriented game, not a sandbox space sim ...

...what if i dont want to, genius? what if i need a ship to carry the resources to build an engine parts factory but i cant buy a ship because there isnt any? ignorance wont help

Answer: Oh my, in a complex simulation there is an economic hole somewhere, but to solve it might actually require some effort in your part ?

Truly a shame !

...no, it actually isnt. a sandbox is working on its own without the player and the player is put into that world to play with. when you are forced to fix the world to be able to play in it is NOT a sandbox

Nope. A video film works without the player.

Or a linear story mode game. A Sandbox gib es you room, Tools, and Problems.
Solutions is up to you.

[nameisunavailable]

I've been playing X4 for about 30 hrs and I cannot find any reasonable incentive to play any more.
In X3 it was obvious: build up you economy to buy big ships. Then wreck the havoc whether you want and it was great (both building up economy and wrecking havoc).
Here in X4 big sips are useless, choice is extremely limited and combat is laughable easy. I've got Nemesis which is great ship and there is no need to change it, so what's the point to make money (which btw is too easy to make)??
I just don't see any reason to play and if I have to force myself I know something is wrong with the game.

Bugs don't scare me away from Egosoft games but lack of content does. If it was you first game I'd cut you some slack, but you have done this before.
In current state the game is just a demo. Nice looking one but empty inside.

I feel much the same way, although I see this game as a great 'foundation'. I'm sad that making money is so ridiculously easy that I have to ignore and play around entire facets of the game in order to make things more of a challenge for myself, it shouldn't have to be this way. The 'pace' of the game needs a lot more attention in this regard.

When I stand in the landing dock and look at my ship, I don't want to have in the back of my mind that I only spent an hour or so shooting crystals to attain it. The stick needs to maintain the carrot at a proper distance otherwise what is the point?

I look forward to hitting this game once the modders are in full swing and many of these issues have been smoothed out...

Thanks for the great work so far though Egosoft !

[gpkgpk]

I had just started a new thread basically asking the same question as the OP (and deleted it 'cause i quickly spotted this thread). In the back of my mind I feared the apologist would dilute any conversation w/ the dreams of future glory, which they kind of did here and elsewhere.
I'm still perplexed though, what are ppl doing and how are they having fun RIGHT NOW? (not 8-12 months from now)

[GCU Grey Area]

When I stand in the landing dock and look at my ship, I don't want to have in the back of my mind that I only spent an hour or so shooting crystals to attain it.

You spent a hour hunting around asteroids to get crystals to buy your ship? Seriously? I commend your persistence. Not something I could do. I mean I if I spot one while flying past I'll stop for a moment to collect it, but doubt I'd be able to bring myself to spend more than a couple of minutes actively searching for them. Think you deserve every credit you got for them.

I'm still perplexed though, what are ppl doing and how are they having fun RIGHT NOW? (not 8-12 months from now)

Mostly spend my time setting up trade runs for my L freighters, adding new bits & support ships to my HQ station as funds permit, mapping the outer fringes of sectors (earning cash & gaining rep by hunting Khaak & Xenon while I'm at it) & occasionally doing odd jobs (e.g satellite repairs) if the mood takes me & it's generally in the direction I'm travelling in anyway.

[mcal9909]

You spent a hour hunting around asteroids to get crystals to buy your ship? Seriously? I commend your persistence. Not something I could do. I mean I if I spot one while flying past I'll stop for a moment to collect it, but doubt I'd be able to bring myself to spend more than a couple of minutes actively searching for them. Think you deserve every credit you got for them.

Thats a big problem with many of todays gamers, they cant do whats fun they can only do whats most efficient and whats gets them to the end the fastest. And then ask "where is the fun?" when they get there.


Personally im having fun waging a war on HOP, while i continue to build my fleets up and defend my sectors from Xenon and HOP invasions. I plan to take on the Paranid after i have HOP completely wiped out (if thats even possible to wipe out a faction?).
Im currenty playing around with the Ship building mod, so i have been setting up a complete supply chain of all the materials needed to outfit and build my ships. I still need some rep to buy the shipyard moduls but im getting there.
Once i have that setup, HOP will fall.
After that i will turn my attention elsewhere or maybe a new game with one of the community starts.

[CaptainX4]

Personally im having fun waging a war on HOP, while i continue to build my fleets up and defend my sectors from Xenon and HOP invasions. I plan to take on the Paranid after i have HOP completely wiped out (if thats even possible to wipe out a faction?).

how you do that? or waging war means shooting down their poor tradeships? im in war with hop too and at best they have like 2 combat ships / sector (1 destroyers at each gates) so i would have hard time to call that fun war
btw, i dont think its possible to wipe them out

[myztkl-kev]

I can only speak for myself, I never really played into the whole universe domination in X3. But X4 im like 60-70 hours in, I'm not extremely far along. I have a fleet of about 12 ships (mostly freighters and miners) and 2 stations. I'm work a couple million. I put about 50 hours in before I even did the mission for the PHQ and research. I'm perfectly content with doing menial tasks while I have everything else automated. This is the first time i've dug into station managing and that's doing me fine keeping me going. When I'm bored, I attempt to explore the xenon sectors and kill shit, eventually I'll have enough money to be like "i wanna do this" with said money and then I spend the next 5 hours doing that. I hear people are making millions and millions within the first few hours, I could do that now maybe that I've learnt the game, but that isn't fun for me. I sunk 100s of hours into X3 just playing mostly combat pilot and doing odd jobs. I don't think I ever had a ship do anything for me automatically in that game. so that's me.

Anyone who's talking about this gaming being released in an unfinished state and being surprised about it just baffles me. When has Ego ever put out more than just a "foundation" for a game at launch? They are literally known for doing exactly this and then sinking years of love into the game and building it off player feedback.

[mcal9909]

Personally im having fun waging a war on HOP, while i continue to build my fleets up and defend my sectors from Xenon and HOP invasions. I plan to take on the Paranid after i have HOP completely wiped out (if thats even possible to wipe out a faction?).

how you do that? or waging war means shooting down their poor tradeships? im in war with hop too and at best they have like 2 combat ships / sector (1 destroyers at each gates) so i would have hard time to call that fun war
btw, i dont think its possible to wipe them out

HOP currently have 10 destroyers in Pontiflex's Claim and i dread to count how many fighters, corvettes and frigates the entire sector is filled with red ships. They even came and attacked my base of operations in Nopileo's Fortune IV yesterday though with a much smaller fleet than i have defending. I have managed to destroy a couple of there stations to disrupt there supply chains in Pontiflex. But suffered heavy losses. Seems like a war to me.

[five21]

I have a friend who asked a similar question to this, and the difference between him and I is pretty marked. I'm having an absolute blast, and love the emergent gameplay and exploration. He got frustrated with the lack of direction and end goal.

Not every game will be for every gamer. It isn't a flaw in the game, it's a sandbox style universe that gives you a ship, some credits and lets you do whatever you like really. Last night I accepted a guild mission and am now apparently at war with a whole faction and drastically outgunned. The universe is really what you make of it.

[JamesTheClarke]

After over 100h in X4 I have a similar problem as the OP and it's definitely not because of the sandbox nature of X games - I've never experienced fatigue or boredom in X2 or X3 this quickly.

The reason is not bugs or even the ship designs that bother me sometimes, but just the lack of content in comparison to every previous X release.

I don't mind finding my own fun in a sprawling sandbox filled to the brim with content, but right now I'm sitting in a sandbox where somebody threw in a bag of pebbles - they are shiny, great looking pebbles to be sure but I can't build a sand castle with them. In both X2 and X3 I've spent many, many weeks playing constantly, powering through all its buggy hurdles because the content was so vast and interesting. X4 feels rushed and unfinished, it can become a truly great game, but right now it is a functional shell that needs to be filled with content.

The game lacks half its main cast (aka three major factions), it lacks interesting diverse sub-factions and it lacks an expansive ship catalogue. All of those things were part of the initial offering of X2 and X3 at release and expansions did just that: they expanded upon that initial offering. The "expansions" for X4 will most likely be focused on re-adding what we had in previous games. I hope at least one future expansion will bring us a new major faction or several interesting minor factions to interact with.

For now I'm back to playing X3:AP with new mods, still gonna check out X4 after every patch but won't be sinking my free time into it beyond that until it offers more to play with.


TLDR: the game has vast potential, but potential doesn't keep me playing. Content does.

[ScandyNav]

The game lacks half its main cast (aka three major factions),

Please stop voting for that feature! Plus three (or six if they built by the same manner as current ones) more factions doesn't give any new gameplay. Even new ships doesn't give anything, if they will be balanced in the same scheme as those which are already in game: pale, not distinctive, useless.
They better polish what is already here, not adding more water.

[Grimmrog]

Oh, but I see the difference clearly. One is and has been working in 6 games, one does not and will never work. And can you imagine there are people who do not give a damn about wars? I do not want to fight Paranid, Argon, Teladi, (Split or Boron) just because someone made the whole economy based on this. Not when there are Xenon and Khaak to fight. Who, btw, do not need any of these missing resources...
And why should I find solutions for a broken economy? Is it my problem there are not ANY engine parts factories in Paranid space? Is it my problem that I have found only one such a factory in Argon prime that has about 1000 of them in stock while all stations I have found so far need about 5000? So, genius, what is the solution for a player who just started and wants to buy some new ship, but can not? What is really funny that such a problem was not in any prevous X games except, surprisingly, Rebirth.
What I really do not get are people who are happy to have a "foundation" with a hope that "it will be fixed sometime" Well, it will not. Especialy when anything depends on that stupid WAR system they came up with.

Adapt and overocme, if there is a station and none else, where do you make money? bring that station materials and it creates engine parts, deliver them and build a ship. later on even build your own engine parts and get rich when the entire universe needs it but NPC's don't hve many of them. Also, yes it obviously is your problem when the economy puts you short on this, but this is also an opportunaty. to make money.

[JamesTheClarke]

Please stop voting for that feature! Plus three (or six if they built by the same manner as current ones) more factions doesn't give any new gameplay. Even new ships doesn't give anything, if they will be balanced in the same scheme as those which are already in game: pale, not distinctive, useless.
They better polish what is already here, not adding more water.

I agree with the issues you raise regarding existing factions, so have I in several forum threads. But here's my question, shouldn't we expect and ask for both in our X games: a full cast AND distinct well-defined factions? Like we had in X2, X3 and from what I read even in XR?

[ScandyNav]

Please stop voting for that feature! Plus three (or six if they built by the same manner as current ones) more factions doesn't give any new gameplay. Even new ships doesn't give anything, if they will be balanced in the same scheme as those which are already in game: pale, not distinctive, useless.
They better polish what is already here, not adding more water.

I agree with the issues you raise regarding existing factions, so have I in several forum threads. But here's my question, shouldn't we expect and ask for both in our X games: a full cast AND distinct well-defined factions? Like we had in X2, X3 and from what I read even in XR?

I'm only saying that because if Egosoft guys are still building todo list for near future and they look at the forum, they may receive wrong assumption , that adding races is highly requested feature.

[JamesTheClarke]

I'm only saying that because if Egosoft guys are still building todo list for near future and they look at the forum, they may receive wrong assumption , that adding races is highly requested feature.

There are plenty of threads and user accounts on this forum that have been talking about the lack of main factions and sub-factions since launch. I'm not convinced though that it is anywhere near enough to make a substantial impact on the devs atm - they are still dealing with a lot of bug fixing and base mechanic issues, the shipyard issue being the latest one of the fix list.

If there is a lot of people talking about a feature or mechanic then the perception that customers want it is not wrong. It only has influence if enough people feel the same way then that's that, if not so be it, but telling people that they should not request something because one doesn't share the same view is a bit odd to me tbh.

[shealladh]

Oh, but I see the difference clearly. One is and has been working in 6 games, one does not and will never work. And can you imagine there are people who do not give a damn about wars? I do not want to fight Paranid, Argon, Teladi, (Split or Boron) just because someone made the whole economy based on this. Not when there are Xenon and Khaak to fight. Who, btw, do not need any of these missing resources...
And why should I find solutions for a broken economy? Is it my problem there are not ANY engine parts factories in Paranid space? Is it my problem that I have found only one such a factory in Argon prime that has about 1000 of them in stock while all stations I have found so far need about 5000? So, genius, what is the solution for a player who just started and wants to buy some new ship, but can not? What is really funny that such a problem was not in any prevous X games except, surprisingly, Rebirth.
What I really do not get are people who are happy to have a "foundation" with a hope that "it will be fixed sometime" Well, it will not. Especialy when anything depends on that stupid WAR system they came up with.

Adapt and overocme, if there is a station and none else, where do you make money? bring that station materials and it creates engine parts, deliver them and build a ship. later on even build your own engine parts and get rich when the entire universe needs it but NPC's don't hve many of them. Also, yes it obviously is your problem when the economy puts you short on this, but this is also an opportunaty. to make money.

Well said. Funny how this is the "story" of the opportunist

Please stop voting for that feature! Plus three (or six if they built by the same manner as current ones) more factions doesn't give any new gameplay. Even new ships doesn't give anything, if they will be balanced in the same scheme as those which are already in game: pale, not distinctive, useless.
They better polish what is already here, not adding more water.

I agree with the issues you raise regarding existing factions, so have I in several forum threads. But here's my question, shouldn't we expect and ask for both in our X games: a full cast AND distinct well-defined factions? Like we had in X2, X3 and from what I read even in XR?

I'm only saying that because if Egosoft guys are still building todo list for near future and they look at the forum, they may receive wrong assumption , that adding races is highly requested feature.

I think this comes down to, we miss All the Races and spread of choices for "different" ships. If the Devs read the meaning of what players want rather than a poll then, I think they'll get it right.

Maybe they designed it (Universe) to evolve over time, and to bring the big open space >bad pun< to grow with the player. It seems to be a little too easy to achieve all the goals atm and the Universe seems to be playing catchup. Given some time, I think that it will balance out. You don't want an expanding Universe that you feel swamped by the growth of everything and you're just small fry in the soup. On the other hand, we've in the former, where we're running out of those around us, like playing an MMO that everyone has left by the time we join.

[rabtherab]

Did you follow those suggestions the tutorial gave you? Raise your rep, join a war effort, etc, etc?

[Fazmaster]

I agree with the issues you raise regarding existing factions, so have I in several forum threads. But here's my question, shouldn't we expect and ask for both in our X games: a full cast AND distinct well-defined factions? Like we had in X2, X3 and from what I read even in XR?

I'm only saying that because if Egosoft guys are still building todo list for near future and they look at the forum, they may receive wrong assumption , that adding races is highly requested feature.

For balancing, depth and visuals (at least on par with X:R) I think they'll come as free updates over time.

For new races with ships, sectors and maybe some surprises (story plot?) i'm happily willing to share some of my hard earned profitsss!

(Wouldn't mind to see some ships and sectors from X:R recycled. Radiant Heaven is such a nice place to visit! )