Universe Characterization: XR>>>X4

[Axeface]

Well I dont agree. To me Rebirths sectors feel vastly bigger, and systems even more so. I would take 15 Rebirth-like 'Systems' over 40-something X4 'Clusters' any day.

fly through a sector in a stock ship without using highways, just travel mode.

Ive done this in about 30 of X4's sectors already, in a Buzzard at 2600ms.

[myztkl-kev]

To me Rebirths sectors feel vastly bigger

and they feel bigger because of how claustrophobic and detailed they are and how slow you move. We just circled 'round back.

[Axeface]

To me Rebirths sectors feel vastly bigger

and they feel bigger because of how claustrophobic and detailed they are and how slow you move. We just circled 'round back.

No, like I said before Im moving at about the same speed in Rebirth.

[SparvieroGed]

Another issue I have is how sectors end up being organized. I liked that Rebirth had clustered, populated areas of development separated by stretches of empty space. It gave the map structure and shape, making it far easier to make sense of in my mind. X4's sectors are big, but the stations are more dispersed than Rebirth's, and it all sort of... gloms together into a blur, where getting from one station to another is an exercise in tedium. I didn't mind Rebirth's highways, but the travel drive is a perfectly reasonable substitute... as long as development is clustered the way it is in Rebirth.

This is a big point.

[myztkl-kev]

To me Rebirths sectors feel vastly bigger

and they feel bigger because of how claustrophobic and detailed they are and how slow you move. We just circled 'round back.

No, like I said before Im moving at about the same speed in Rebirth.

well i donno how you're managing that, since the highways in X:4 go 11,000m/s and XR highways are about 3000m/s

[myztkl-kev]

Another issue I have is how sectors end up being organized. I liked that Rebirth had clustered, populated areas of development separated by stretches of empty space. It gave the map structure and shape, making it far easier to make sense of in my mind. X4's sectors are big, but the stations are more dispersed than Rebirth's, and it all sort of... gloms together into a blur, where getting from one station to another is an exercise in tedium. I didn't mind Rebirth's highways, but the travel drive is a perfectly reasonable substitute... as long as development is clustered the way it is in Rebirth.

This is a big point.

Rebirth had the highways leading to almost every station though, and most of the time you had to make a weird loop to get to where you wanted to go. the only thing that makes it more tedious in X:4 IMO is the retarded autopilot.

[Axeface]

and they feel bigger because of how claustrophobic and detailed they are and how slow you move. We just circled 'round back.

No, like I said before Im moving at about the same speed in Rebirth.

well i donno how you're managing that, since the highways in X:4 go 11,000m/s and XR highways are about 3000m/s

Im talking about travelling in the skunk/piggybacking on capitals not highways as thats how I play the game... and highway speed depends on the system you are in in Rebirth, Home of Light highways are much faster.
In X4 I probably spend 2% of my time playing in a highway, I am using travel drive 90% of the time just like in Rebirth.

[SparvieroGed]

Another issue I have is how sectors end up being organized. I liked that Rebirth had clustered, populated areas of development separated by stretches of empty space. It gave the map structure and shape, making it far easier to make sense of in my mind. X4's sectors are big, but the stations are more dispersed than Rebirth's, and it all sort of... gloms together into a blur, where getting from one station to another is an exercise in tedium. I didn't mind Rebirth's highways, but the travel drive is a perfectly reasonable substitute... as long as development is clustered the way it is in Rebirth.

This is a big point.

Rebirth had the highways leading to almost every station though, and most of the time you had to make a weird loop to get to where you wanted to go. the only thing that makes it more tedious in X:4 IMO is the retarded autopilot.

Untill you get a L ship and you start to boost instead of take highway. But also if you don't use highway, they are still there and give a shape to the universe.

[Warnoise]

Another issue I have is how sectors end up being organized. I liked that Rebirth had clustered, populated areas of development separated by stretches of empty space. It gave the map structure and shape, making it far easier to make sense of in my mind. X4's sectors are big, but the stations are more dispersed than Rebirth's, and it all sort of... gloms together into a blur, where getting from one station to another is an exercise in tedium. I didn't mind Rebirth's highways, but the travel drive is a perfectly reasonable substitute... as long as development is clustered the way it is in Rebirth.

This is a big point.

Rebirth had the highways leading to almost every station though, and most of the time you had to make a weird loop to get to where you wanted to go. the only thing that makes it more tedious in X:4 IMO is the retarded autopilot.

Well X4 highway loop can literally take you to 80% of the whole universe....

Thinking about it, it is kinda retarded, how enemy factions share the same highway...

[SparvieroGed]

I hate the big ring...how to kill level design.

[myztkl-kev]

This is a big point.

Rebirth had the highways leading to almost every station though, and most of the time you had to make a weird loop to get to where you wanted to go. the only thing that makes it more tedious in X:4 IMO is the retarded autopilot.

Well X4 highway loop can literally take you to 80% of the whole universe....

Thinking about it, it is kinda retarded, how enemy factions share the same highway...

this is another reason why X4 feels smaller and progression is so much faster. I don't mind the highway ring, im just glad I don't have to highway around in circles within sectors anymore. but yeah, now that you mention it, warring factions just like "yo, build your highway right to the gate, and we'll continue from there"

[Clownmug]

I'm just wondering why the music seems to be lacking in X4 compared to X:R and the previous games. Most of the systems have just an ambience track or nothing at all it seems. I think there might be a bug where the music is stopping or constantly restarting when travelling between the invisible zones but who knows.

[shahman76]

Damn OP! You took the words right out of my mouth! I so happy I'm not alone in feeling this. Seconded.

The comments here seem to revolve around the ring of highways etc., for the most part. That's missing the point I think. So to focus the conversation - highways, no highways is irrelevant to the larger point. That being - X4 is flavorless! XRebirth's map and universe, for all its design decisions, was packed with identity, lore, the actual space was a character in its own right with its own unique identity and a reasons for why it was the way it was. Thats got nothing to do with game mechanics and everything to do with an art department firing away on all cylinders, a writing team plumbing the depths of X Lore to provide context for the open world shenanigans, both of npc factions and the player, and the game folding all of that into itself and expressing that creative intent in terms of overall experience.
Refer to our lord and savior, Jim Sterling's (thank god for him) commentary on why Yakuza Zero's map was far superior to most open world maps these days. It wasnt the best technically or graphically or the largest in terms of size or ease of transportation. But it was crammed with identity and flavor and character, it was rich with it and immersed you into the Yakuza universe in a way that few open world games ever do. Thats whats missing almost entirely from X4 and its universe, its maps, its sectors. X4's universe is like Just Cause 3 and Just Cause 4 and even RDR 2 and Horizon Zero Dawn's open world's are; very pretty but ultimately shallow, bland and flavorless.

I remember the core systems we started out in, flying through a smashed planet... think about it... a SMASHED EFFIN PLANET! DeVries... IS IN THE CORONA OF A STAR... not the atmosphere of a planet... THE CORONA OF A STAR, because they had no where to go and were desperately hanging on to life. Or Omicron Lyrae's overall 'Master Race' look and feel; feeling like you've stumbled upon an episode of space cribs. The feeling of muscularity and power of the Arawn, feeling like the Taranis was held together with spit and polish, or the other-worldliness of the Xenon I and K Bug ships. Thats what I mean by an art department taking inspiration from the universe and its setting and building a world for us to experience.

X4 is...big and the graphics are... nice. There's no 'artisitic intent' behind it? If I am explaining myself properly.

And IMHO - putting the lore in the wiki is a sin equal to Destiny 1 putting its lore in the grimoires. Lore, grounds the player into the world and provides context to its existence for the player to explore. Its an essential backdrop as important as any skybox.

[myztkl-kev]

They built Rebirth at a different scale to really show off the new engine, and it shows. it's beautiful even though it's graphics are already dated, but the game was smaller as a whole to compensate on that scale. I think Ego took everyone too literally when we all said "but its not X4". The next game will probably meet more in the middle. Everyone would be satisfied with what we got if we never got that beautiful dumpster fire that is Rebirth.

[Chris0132]

The highway loop would make a lot more sense if it ran through the X3 cloudbases, rather than through several warring factions and the entire known universe.

It'd be great as the core of a single empire I think but it suffers a bit with dominating the map so much and especially with it running through active warzones.

[myztkl-kev]

maybe if we had some in-game lore to explain it...

[Benzin]

Sorry for borrowing your image.
Yes, this is exactly what i was refeering to about the quality of FX in both games. Look at the fires being vented into space on that ship.
Now go and destroy a surface element on a capital ship in X4. After the initial explosion, you see nothing. No smoke, no fire, nothing.

XRebirth is full with beautiful images like the one above. Youll be hard pressed to find those in X4.
A lot more attention to detail went into the FX in Rebirth, than on X4.

[Jaswolf]

In X Rebirth you'll feel warm, despair, cold, fear, awe, beauty, regret, joy, pride, envy, revenge, war,...

More than words... screenshots

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1591969596
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1591949919
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1591305968
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1591271715
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1591271305
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1591268454
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590375595
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590377542
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590377196
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590376538
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590375412
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590375385
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590375328
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590376017
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1589856460
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590015162

[Himmelweiss]

In X Rebirth you'll feel warm, despair, cold, fear, awe, beauty, regret, joy, pride, envy, revenge, war,...

More than words... screenshots

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1591969596
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1591949919
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1591305968
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1591271715
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1591271305
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1591268454
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590375595
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590377542
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590377196
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590376538
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590375412
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590375385
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590375328
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590376017
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1589856460
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1590015162

wtf happened?????

This stuff looks like a billion times better than anything i have seen in X4...

Did we get a stripped down X4 version or why does X4 look so boring?

[ajime]

The rts gameplay aspect was focused heavily, i guess. I need CLS2 in X4.