DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

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Titan2k4
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DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Titan2k4 » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33

You are dreaming about selling additional DLCs, Egosoft? You have got to be kidding me...
We're missing at least 50% of the content that should have been in the intial 1.0 release. But of course you charged us for a full-price-title or almost.
And now you want to sell us the remaining 50%, again?

-Ridiculously low amount of sectors and universe-size
-Pathetic amounts of options with Shields & Engines - especially from L-size upwards. There aren't even Mk2 & Mk3 Engines, yet.
-The same old Main-Batteries for every race and their destroyers and no different weapon-options?
-The same old weapons in general on all races. Are you freakin' serious?
-The same Construction-Vessle on all Races. PHAHHAHAH!
-Where are the different Capital Ships? A Turret-Based Battleship like the Titan - not a Carrier like Colossus but full-on Battleship with numerous Mega-Sized Turrets on each side. Ultra-Capital Ships from AP (Megalodon, etc...)
-XL Turrets and weapons... XL Uber-Torpedos...
-Entirely missing races like Split, Borons, maybe Terrans,
-Hundreds of Ship-System Extensions missing from the other X-Games. Not all of them would make sense or would be required in X4. But a lot of them would...
-Horrible Balancing... One single weapon of a s-sized Fighter does more damage than an L-sized Turret that is bigger than that entire fighter itself. Missiles being ridiculously overpowered, etc... (Although this has nothihg to do with content of course)

Before you even DREAM about selling any additonal DLCs you better first deliver the rest of the game for f's sake.
I have purchased nearly all X-Games ever released - some of them even twice and I have no doubt that X4 is going to be complete - one day. But don't you dare to even remotely consider selling release-content as additional DLCs!

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by CBJ » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 14:01

Did you read the announcement at the top of the forum, which gives a roadmap for fixes and new features that are part of the base game?

Regarding "selling release content as a DLC" we made it clear that not all races would be represented in the base game, and I explained here why this is the case.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by gustav183 » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 14:10

The official administrator upstairs, please don't cover up and confuse, this player said very reasonable, X4 has a lot of low-level bugs you don't solve, in the 1.0 version of the game content, you still Despicable want to be released as DLC. Egosoft is getting worse and worse.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Nafensoriel » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 14:16

CBJ wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 14:01
Did you read the announcement at the top of the forum, which gives a roadmap for fixes and new features that are part of the base game?

Regarding "selling release content as a DLC" we made it clear that not all races would be represented in the base game, and I explained here why this is the case.
What? READING? CBJ I am absolutely shocked.
You know the expectation is instant understanding of all things from birth now right?


On the serious note to the OP this is Egosoft. They have a decades long track record of giving away decades of free updates for their games.
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by CaptainRAVE » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 14:36

Meh, I’ll buy the dlc.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by darrund » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 14:40

CBJ wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 14:01
Did you read the announcement at the top of the forum, which gives a roadmap for fixes and new features that are part of the base game?

Regarding "selling release content as a DLC" we made it clear that not all races would be represented in the base game, and I explained here why this is the case.
OK where do I start from?
First thing is first. It is nice to see CBJ posting in this thread and defending the game as he should.The game is interesting to say the least.However the OP has some point.
The game feels a little "poor" and "shallow" at least compared to x3 TC + AP.
On the other hand it looks amazing with the new graphics with even underwhelming ship designs (can be redesigned however) and some bugs that can be fixed.The general feeling (strictly my opinion here) is that things were rushed a bit, but I can understand that provided that new things will be implemented soon(???) (TM) but hopefully not too late.
Don't get me wrong I love X3 I even bought it twice (because... reasons) and I still enjoy it A LOT. I even bought X-Rebirth without even try to play it, just because I expected something better to come out and on that I was not disappointed.
I do believe though that the game misses quite a few things and something must be done rather sooner than later, to provide some kind of content to the players otherwise i feel that many will be disappointed and that will HURT the game and Egosofts future plans. Just my 5 cents though.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 14:51

In my opinion as a professional software developer, comparing a new project (because that's what X-series games are - and always will be: multi-year projects, not just games) to years of development of X3 is a mistake. I understand the expectations, but still it is a mistake, especially after all these years (that means, as CBJ told us, assets created in the past are obsolete now).
I'm even a bit surprised this sort of critics are coming from the players of previous versions of the game - I mean, the project - knowing how Egosoft works (constant patches to resolve issues / bugs, perhaps insufficient testing if you really want some malice?) and knowing what is capable to deliver (thanks to the community feedback, too).

It's not an incomplete game, it's a new project growing week after week and patch after patch.

And yet some users make this kind of posts that are more similar to pre-teen whine than criticism (that is often useful, even if sometimes "badly" written).

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 14:53

Restrict comments to being about the game and not other posters please.
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by EmperorDragon » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 15:08

CBJ wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 14:01
Did you read the announcement at the top of the forum, which gives a roadmap for fixes and new features that are part of the base game?

Regarding "selling release content as a DLC" we made it clear that not all races would be represented in the base game, and I explained here why this is the case.
Mmmm, for a dev to respond to one of the more... controversial topics of the gaming industry takes a pair of steel, I tip my hat to you for actually trying to explain how you do things. Other devs usually just dodge the question of DLC.

I don't like this DLC trend of today either but, I love proper expansions. I still consider Egosoft's "proper expansions" at this point. I am satisfied with X4's release state (content-wise, not the bugs and issues of course), it is what I expected from pre-release information. Lots to fix and some content missing but, nothing I will have to pay for again.

If I may ask, can you guys consider a bonus pack or two before expansions drop? The universe is quite small, I can deal with it and it is enjoyable but, we could really use a few more hidden/unclaimed sectors. Nothing major.

We don't really have much choice in this regard, Nopileos' Fortune is the only one worth settling in really. Others lack resource availability or filled with mines. Conquering territory from other factions comes later in the game when our empires are already established.
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by X-Tie » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 15:17

There are many games that are rushed for release and end up being full of bugs / unfinished. What I find unacceptable here is that the upcoming DLC isn't very far away and that means a lot of resources are going into that DLC instead of working on FIRST polishing out the base game. I looked at the roadmap and there are many aspects of the game / features that will not be implemented before the first DLC. One other irritation is that Egosoft seems to be making the same release and coding mistakes with every X game they release. Disappointing.

Fortunately for them, this series is a pretty unique one and I haven't played any other game that provides a similar solo gaming experience... And without competition in the market, Egosoft can still afford to make these mistakes... For now. Yes, we chose to support this game and yes, we do enjoy wasting our time playing videogames. But that doesn't mean our time should be taken so lightly.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by CBJ » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 15:40

X-Tie wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 15:17
There are many games that are rushed for release and end up being full of bugs / unfinished. What I find unacceptable here is that the upcoming DLC isn't very far away and that means a lot of resources are going into that DLC instead of working on FIRST polishing out the base game.
That simply isn't true. Most of the work required for DLCs is work for artists. While they may have a few asset corrections to contribute to the bug-fixing process, and even some content to add for new gameplay features that will be part of the updates for the base game, they cannot help with the majority of that work and are therefore free to spend some time preparing new ships, designing new sectors, and so on.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Falcrack » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 15:45

I think the track Egosoft is on with free patches to the base game (including gameplay additions), and paid DLC that adds extra ship models, sectors etc is a reasonable one. I don't share the OP's sentiment. Sure the game could use improvement, but I don't think it is at a level to justify that type of ranting.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by X-Tie » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 15:58

CBJ wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 15:40
X-Tie wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 15:17
There are many games that are rushed for release and end up being full of bugs / unfinished. What I find unacceptable here is that the upcoming DLC isn't very far away and that means a lot of resources are going into that DLC instead of working on FIRST polishing out the base game.
That simply isn't true. Most of the work required for DLCs is work for artists. While they may have a few asset corrections to contribute to the bug-fixing process, and even some content to add for new gameplay features that will be part of the updates for the base game, they cannot help with the majority of that work and are therefore free to spend some time preparing new ships, designing new sectors, and so on.
Come on... You can't truly mean that... I can see a lot of in-game aspects that artists should still be working on in the base game. For certain things, they've done an amazing job but there's still a lot of work to be done here. And the sheer number of repeated feedback, whether it be in this forum, on steam or other reviews should give Egosoft a good sense of direction towards addressing these issues / aspects that should be improved for a 2018 / 19 game.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that Egosoft will continually improve the game (and it's far from being the disaster that Rebirth was at launch) and that it will become the game people here want it to be - it's just frustrating to be stuck with a full release version that feels like a beta, and have to wait another year or so to be able to experience the promised gameplay to its fullest. For us X veterans, we're used to it by now but if Egosoft wants to attract a broader audience, this is not the way to do it as it will put many people off.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by CBJ » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 16:02

I already acknowledged that artists have some work to do fixing problems and improving certain things, but the majority of the work does not fall on their shoulders. Where they do need to be involved, they will be and, as you can see from the timeline, we have plenty of updates scheduled before the first DLC is due.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Tomonor » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 16:05

Oh boy here we go.
Titan2k4 wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33
You are dreaming about selling additional DLCs, Egosoft? You have got to be kidding me...
We're missing at least 50% of the content that should have been in the intial 1.0 release. But of course you charged us for a full-price-title or almost.
And now you want to sell us the remaining 50%, again?
Who or what decides what's to be in a full release anyway? I mean I get it, you are referring to the previous X3 titles that had a bit more variety. In comparison the options do seem poor in X4, there's no feeling of "lost in numbers". But that's not necessarily a bad thing, especially if we consider the amount of work that had to go into the new structure of the game's engine, and into the level of detail we take for granted now. Previous titles had none of that.

But once again, I will steer back to the reasoning of 'Who told you that what we are seeing is just 50% of what should have been?' Or did you decide on that number? Because in this sense I could argue any percentage (for instance, 51%) but that wouldn't make it any more right or wrong.

Titan2k4 wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33
-Ridiculously low amount of sectors and universe-size
The amount of "sectors" right now are plentiful enough to support the 3 main races. Any more of them would just start a repetitive cycle of having more sectors means better. In my opinion, the hundreds of box sectors of Albion Prelude did not improve the game at all since X2-The Threat. The first step into the right direction was done by Rebirth with the Superhighways. Shamely, X4 once again seems redundant on that topic.

I also think that the zones/districts should have stayed in some form. The reason why Rebirth seemed so big was that it tricked you into believing that you are far away from different zones and points of interests by the tunnel vision provided by the highways and the low rendering distance of stations. Not saying that this is a viable method of projection, especially not in 2019, but at least Egosoft could have extended upon the features these assets could have provided. So in my opinion, that's where the whole universe falls apart, not in numbers, but where the quality lies at.

Titan2k4 wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33
-Pathetic amounts of options with Shields & Engines - especially from L-size upwards. There aren't even Mk2 & Mk3 Engines, yet.
These are once again just raw numbers instead of anything progressful. You just want stronger numbers to be satisfied.

Titan2k4 wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33
-The same old Main-Batteries for every race and their destroyers and no different weapon-options?
Turrets and weapon variety is part where X4 lacks a bit. This is true and should be addressed before paid DLCs.

Titan2k4 wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33
-The same old weapons in general on all races. Are you freakin' serious?
Racial weapons weren't a thing in the X universe. X3TC did introduce a large variety of weapons (instead of different weapon versions distinguished by strenght and visual features) that had racial backgrounds lore-wise but ultimately, only rebalance mods limited their usage to ships per race. What we have now are the oversimplified versions of the old setup: a balanced laser on moderate range, a mass driver-ish weapon for longer ranges, a shotgun/inertial hammer for point blank destruction, a beam weapon for constant damage output, a plasma thrower with slow projectiles that can deal a punch, and an ion projectile weapon for shield removal. This is the base and I'm not saying that it wouldn't hurt to have more, but this is most likely going to be put behind the DLC paywall (as was the case with Rebirth).

Titan2k4 wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33
-The same Construction-Vessle on all Races. PHAHHAHAH!
The CVs were most likely the ships that suffered the most from the time constraints Egosoft had. The good news is, these are the ships you will less likely to own and fly. The devs tried their best to differentiate these ships, thus they have different colours, different stats, the only thing that's a constant is their model. But that can be replaced anytime if Egosoft bothers to.

Titan2k4 wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33
-Where are the different Capital Ships? A Turret-Based Battleship like the Titan - not a Carrier like Colossus but full-on Battleship with numerous Mega-Sized Turrets on each side. Ultra-Capital Ships from AP (Megalodon, etc...)
I see you are a fan of the X3 games. What happened is the ship classses went through a bit of a retconning to match today's naval forces: Frigates and Destroyers have both shrunken in size, thus they are more purpose oriented. The ship type you are actually looking for now is the Cruiser or a Dreadnaught what X4 lacks for now.

Titan2k4 wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33
-XL Turrets and weapons... XL Uber-Torpedos...
Not sure what point you wanted to make here.

Titan2k4 wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33
-Entirely missing races like Split, Borons, maybe Terrans,
CBJ has explained this one.

Titan2k4 wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33
-Hundreds of Ship-System Extensions missing from the other X-Games. Not all of them would make sense or would be required in X4. But a lot of them would...
Okay, let's see what we could have had:
-Navigation/Fight/Trade/Explorer/Special/Patrol/Carrier Command softwares: removed due to presence of actual NPCs have taken their place. These softwares were your only way of communicating with your ships' board computer, and issuing orders for them. The new Map completely replaces these features and restricting players back to these fictional softwares would be nonsensical.
-Duplex/Triplex scanner: still in, different name though
-Jumpdrive: removed due to balancing
-SETA: still in
-Mineral/Freight scanner: still in, but inbuilt to ships to remove pointless credit grinding for these
-Ore collector: same as above
-Boost extension: reworked and inbuilt to any ship as you would expect in the 30th century
-Strafe Drive extension: inbuilt to ships since Reunion
-Rudder optimization/Engine tuning/Cargo bay extension: still in, but in the form of ship modifications that you need to research
-Mobile Drilling System: reworked to mining laser, the NPCs can utilize it too now. It's a straight upgrade from what we had in X3.
-Video Enhancement Goggles: This is the only thing we need urgently so I can make more Metalvenom-style movies. You hear, Devs?!
-Docking computer: still in, reworked to accomodate the new docking feature.
-Best buys/Best selling price locator: inbuilt feature to map
-Spacefly collector: missing, with the absense of spaceflies, it would be hard to catch them after all.
-Salvage insurance: don't tell me you want that annoying credits-bound feature that made sense in X-BtF, but doesn't ever since.

This is literally all the software upgrades you could have in the latter X3 games (and as you can see, it's far from hundreds). I went through the equipment docks one by one so I can make a point for you here. And the best part is, there wasn't even a variety in X3 either - these were upgrades that kept repeating equipment dock after equipment dock (plus the weapons, missiles, and shields). Anyway, I can't see which upgrade "would make more sense for X4"?

Titan2k4 wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33
-Horrible Balancing... One single weapon of a s-sized Fighter does more damage than an L-sized Turret that is bigger than that entire fighter itself. Missiles being ridiculously overpowered, etc... (Although this has nothihg to do with content of course)
Turrets require an overhaul and will be addressed sometime in the future.

Titan2k4 wrote:
Wed, 30. Jan 19, 13:33
Before you even DREAM about selling any additonal DLCs you better first deliver the rest of the game for f's sake.
I have purchased nearly all X-Games ever released - some of them even twice and I have no doubt that X4 is going to be complete - one day. But don't you dare to even remotely consider selling release-content as additional DLCs!
In the end, I find your passive-aggressive threats against a company that depends on money quite amusing. Not that voicing your concerns is bad, because opinions need to be shared for feedback and progression. But what you are doing is quite the opposite. Which is a shame, because if your post wasn't fueled by negative emotions, the thread could have had a strong, opinionated discussion about what should be release and DLCs material.
Last edited by Tomonor on Wed, 30. Jan 19, 16:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by keeshah » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 16:08

I will buy the DLC. And any other DLC that come out after that.
Actually I think I already did buy some, since I got the collectors edition.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 16:30

Long before the release Egosoft was clear and open about:
- 2 DLC and the fact that not all races will be present at the release
- there will be more free content with major patches

Additionnaly everyone who know X-seried knew:
- there will be bugs
- there will be broken and missing features
- there will be lots and lots of pathes for years to come
- there wil be free mods.


Therefore you have 3 options:
- feel confidence in Egosoft and buy Collector Edition with 2 planned DLC (not a bad price considering industry standard).
- fell cautious - wait some time for reviews, pathes and sales - wait and buy everything cheaper and more completed (also not bad choice for games in general).
- REEEEEEEEEEE! <angry troll noises>


Egosoft is not CD Project, but considering current low industry standards they are consistent, transparent and honest - something that EA/Activision/Bethesda lacks.


For now the only thing I really don't like in X4 are the online features that force me to choose between Ventures and fan made mods - not cool Egosoft!

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Titan2k4 » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 16:41

I am sorry but NO! Updating a decades old graphics engine FINALLY does not automatically allow room for missing base-content & features and most certainly not to fill them in - in form of subsequent DLCs. And we're not even dealing with an entirely new engine here, btw...

I appreciate the response CBJ but HOW are we not supposed to get the impression that we're getting less and less from Egosoft going forward when core-elements from any previous X-Game are announced to come as separate DLCs. Do you understand what this means to your customers in regards to future Egosoft products? When you throw wild numbers like 2.0 and 2.5 and 3.0 around when all of us really know that even with those updates we haven't made it anywhere near an actual, stable 1.2 or something like that, yet. And that's not even talking bugs. This is purely talking core-content. The things we can use and experiment around with: A wide variety of different races, weapons and technologies. Stuff that came natural to previous X-Games (Except Rebirth maybe?) I even loved the Alpha and Beta and Gamma versions of Energy Plasma Throwsers for example. To me - even that wasn't cheap or boring. To me - even that counted as amazing content variety because if was animated differently with different stats, etc. I don't feel like being a complicated and demanding customer. But I don't want to expect less and less from Egosoft going forward.

And don't get me wrong: I found joy and excitment in X4. I like the graphics and size of things. But it went dry and empty so much faster than it should and to me - it's that lack of content that did it. I am well aware of Egosofts Track-Record of delivering patches and content for a long time and I would only be a little bit annoyed to hear that all these races and weapons and technologies are simply scheduled for the next months - so long after the release. But hearing that apparently it's no longer supposed to be part of the core-game... So I have to pay separately for it - That's inacceptable to me. Not from the Egosoft I have come to know and trust for so long.

Who am I to say what belongs in a 1.0 release? That's the easiest question to answer... A customer who bought all the previous games and has learned what to expect from a full Egosoft release. And surely I am not supposed to expect less every time, am I?

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 16:58

<in EA style> If you don't like it don't buy it!

Seriously stop wasting your time trying to went frustration.
The release state of the X4 was predictable months before release and doesn't differ from any other game in X-Series.
The only question was should you buy it at release or later or do not buy it at all.

Ultimately this is your choice not Egosoft.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Titan2k4 » Wed, 30. Jan 19, 17:09

First off... Most of the previous X-Games had more content at release and secondly:
"Dont like it - dont buy it" doesnt get you anywhere. You could never discuss anything if that's the answer you want to choose.

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