DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

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Tattoonation
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Tattoonation » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 12:37

I think for the customer, it should not matter how much a product costs in production!

The end product is what matters

The basic tone of the start post was: Producers should deliver a finished product for the full price. Buyable DLCs should include additional content and not missing base content - that's the point!
XbtF to X3 AP created a huge backstory and with each part more and more characters and races were added!

X4 should have connected exactly where AP ended to produce the only true X feeling.
This would have needed a logical and comprehensible story, which connects directly and brings back to the player the complete X universe!
But we have got a storyless, uninspired, boring space game for FULL PRIZE, which does not allow the player to dive into the game and forget everything!

Now Egosoft is very smart and wants to sell the player all that by DLC, which would have actually belonged to the base game and now sells the game 2x ....... Gentlemen like!

Story, Borons, Split, Terrans ....... should be a FREE Patch NOT a Buyable DLC !!
Buyable DLC's should contain totaly NEW Content !!

I bought Collector's Edition on the day of the release because I actually thought you had learned about the X: R disaster! The first 2 DLC's are included in the purchase price.
But I'm not interested anymore. Egosoft take my money and be happy with it. You will not see more of me anymore!

Egosoft, I'm really disappointed
X2-Illuminatus wrote:
Fri, 14. Dec 18, 23:34
Wer enttäuscht vom Spiel ist, darf das hier äußern und muss sich nicht anhören (respektive lesen), welche Fehler oder Unzulänglichkeiten man aushalten soll. Solche Kommentare also bitte hier sein lassen.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by tomtalk24 » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 13:23

Tattoonation wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 12:37
I think for the customer, it should not matter how much a product costs in production!

The end product is what matters

The basic tone of the start post was: Producers should deliver a finished product for the full price. Buyable DLCs should include additional content and not missing base content - that's the point!
XbtF to X3 AP created a huge backstory and with each part more and more characters and races were added!

X4 should have connected exactly where AP ended to produce the only true X feeling.
This would have needed a logical and comprehensible story, which connects directly and brings back to the player the complete X universe!
But we have got a storyless, uninspired, boring space game for FULL PRIZE, which does not allow the player to dive into the game and forget everything!

Now Egosoft is very smart and wants to sell the player all that by DLC, which would have actually belonged to the base game and now sells the game 2x ....... Gentlemen like!

Story, Borons, Split, Terrans ....... should be a FREE Patch NOT a Buyable DLC !!
Buyable DLC's should contain totaly NEW Content !!

I bought Collector's Edition on the day of the release because I actually thought you had learned about the X: R disaster! The first 2 DLC's are included in the purchase price.
But I'm not interested anymore. Egosoft take my money and be happy with it. You will not see more of me anymore!

Egosoft, I'm really disappointed
Why would anyone buy the Collectors Edition without knowing what the games like first? Thats like booking tickets to a play for the first night, before the press rate it. Of buying a home before its built.

Depends how you value money, being a made up concept. But if you buy the most expensive offering of a product on pure speculation of how good you think its going to be, you only have yourself to blame, not Ego, not anyone else.
The games not going anywhere, you could have easily waited to see.

Lesson as always is, dont part with you cash however little it is unless you know what youre getting.

EDIT:
Especially nowadays where you can easily watch people play the game, and read reviews in the comfort of your own chair on the same day, if not sooner, of release. Its not like we need to wait for a weekly magazine to see whats what. Its all on tap. No excuses.

Drake
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Drake » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 14:20

Everyone that has played an X series game knows that they do not start out squeaky-spanky bug free, but I am not bothered at all that they are talking about DLC when said DLC is down the development road. Hell it means to me that they are vested financially into working on this title and not giving up and instead putting their noses to the grindstone to deliver a good product. Theses people are professionals and working on a labor of love but that labor also needs to keep the lights on in the building. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but even with the bugs I have had more than my dollars worth to game time and if you read the patch notes they are working their arses off, so how about seeing that and cut them some slack.

Bottom line is yep, title released in a rough manner. VERY rough. Egosoft is obviously putting their backs into it for the patches though and are simply being transparent about where they are going, something a lot of game devs do not do these days. So look at big patches as a chance to start a new game, or come back after a break, chill out and have a cold one, and see hard work and commitment instead of shady drama where there is none.

Cheers Egosoft and keep up the good work and communication with your customers, it is much appreciated and I am looking forward to you marking off more and more bugs as you add more and more content to the game.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Shehriazad » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 14:59

EmperorDragon wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 11:49
Stuff
First of all I didn't mean the retail stores making he copies of course...you take that to the people who actually do that stuff for a living.

As for WHY people would go digital if physical can be much cheaper than steam....I already answered that in the original comment.


Steam has so much reach that they try to justify the insane cut of 30% just because they have a large user base.

They literally take one third of your every sale just for hosting your game and supplying some small cloud save service.

That's the sole reason GOG and the EPIC store even have success even though steam almost has a monopoly...devs are Hella pissed about the terrible terms steam forced them to take.

That's usually the amount a publisher that does tons of PR for you would take...and afaik Steam charges extra for promotions in many cases...

Tldr Physical IS cheaper but you run the risk of sitting on those copies for a while or even worse undersupply the market ...Steam is mostly used for exposure even though it's super expensive for small to medium devstudios

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by CBJ » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 16:06

Sorry to break it to you Shehriazad, but your post is factually incorrect about Steam on almost every count.

That being said, can we get this thread back on the subject of the game itself, not the merits or otherwise of different delivery platforms, a topic which has been done to death and never results in anything but arguments.

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Nafensoriel
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Nafensoriel » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 18:24

Since we have been going off topic so frequently lets try a different tact.

What type and what amount of content would YOU personally need to feel satisfied on and what price point would be acceptable?

I personally think:

1 Race
3-4 sectors(atleast one decently populated)
5-8 small class ships
2-4 medium freighters(including miners)
2-4 large freighters(including miners)
1-3 capital class ships(including builder)
2-6 unique station modules

would be a fair DLC package.

I would value that package at 15-25 dollars(my local currency)

If the same package included a new weapon, or new mission types, or new spatial mechanics I would be inclined to pay more for the product.
"A Tradition is only as good as it's ability to change." Nael

Shehriazad
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Shehriazad » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 18:28

CBJ wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 16:06
Sorry to break it to you Shehriazad, but your post is factually incorrect about Steam on almost every count.

That being said, can we get this thread back on the subject of the game itself, not the merits or otherwise of different delivery platforms, a topic which has been done to death and never results in anything but arguments.
So you're telling me that all the news outlets recently going apeshit that Steam is charging people 30% is straight up false?


Also yea I keep trying to get back to topic every once in a while...there's just so much sidetracking here that I get dragged in myself ^^;. I guess I'll abandon this thread for now

CBJ
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by CBJ » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 18:30

Shehriazad wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 18:28
So you're telling me that all the news outlets recently going apeshit that Steam is charging people 30% is straight up false?
No, I'm telling you that the 30% is pretty much the only part of your post that is accurate. ;)

Now, on topic please.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Shehriazad » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 18:32

Nafensoriel wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 18:24
Since we have been going off topic so frequently lets try a different tact.

What type and what amount of content would YOU personally need to feel satisfied on and what price point would be acceptable?

I personally think:

1 Race
3-4 sectors(atleast one decently populated)
5-8 small class ships
2-4 medium freighters(including miners)
2-4 large freighters(including miners)
1-3 capital class ships(including builder)
2-6 unique station modules

would be a fair DLC package.

I would value that package at 15-25 dollars(my local currency)

If the same package included a new weapon, or new mission types, or new spatial mechanics I would be inclined to pay more for the product.


Well we could probably expect the faction to have the same size of the other factions.

3-6 sectors
6 S ships on average
6M Ships on Average
5L Ships on average
2XLs (including resupply - excluding Builder as those look the same for everyone for some sad reason)
Then 1-2 unique products and connection pieces and defensive modules in a unique style.
Maybe a 1 hour "story" mission bite sized chunk....nothing too exciting, but something to continue the Boron/Split PHQ quest.


LOGICALLY all the production modules would have to look different because the faction has been disconnected from the others...but I'll not expect that. What I DO expect however is for the new sectors to feel a bit more "hand crafted" than some of the others...maybe even make one or two of them more dense to give us something more to look at. At least to me it's not that useful to have "infinite" size sectors if there's almost always nothing to see in a sector, I'm a huge X-plorer and that part is cut a bit short in this game aside from the cache "quest"

Lost Captain
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Lost Captain » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 18:44

I'm in favour of lots of DLC.

Expansion packs,ships,cosmetic stuff.

Look at Euro truck simulator 2.It was released almost seven years ago,and has constantly been
added to and refined.Fantastic game.They are still improving the older content to keep it up to
the same quality level as the new stuff.SCS also aren't a large AAA company.

I would rather have a continually improving / evolving game than start over every few years with
the same old problems.

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 18:53

Tattoonation wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 12:37
I think for the customer, it should not matter how much a product costs in production!

The end product is what matters
When complaining about level of content then the production aspect is a factor - products typically are priced according to the effort/cost required to produce them, more content means a higher sale price. It is a fact of life that can not be dismissed out of hand like some are trying to.
Tattoonation wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 12:37
The basic tone of the start post was: Producers should deliver a finished product for the full price. Buyable DLCs should include additional content and not missing base content - that's the point!
Arguably, there was no missing base content with X4. The lore explains much of why things are as they are.

X-Rebirth concentrated on an area of the universe dominated by the Argon and Terrans primarily when the gates started to reconnect, the Split, Teladi, and the Xenon were also present but less prevalent and the Paranid had little or no presence.

X4 moved the scene to the more historic sectors where the Argon, Teladi, and Paranid have reconnected with each other and are at least in part in competition with each other as well as having at least a degree of infighting with-in their own race factions. The gate network has only started to re-stabilise after the gate shutdown after X3:AP thus it is not unreasonable from a lore perspective for not all races to be present in the initial base game.

DLC/Expansion #1 seems set to reconnect with the Split as at least one faction though I would not be surprised if they appear in X4 as independent families rather than a single unified race. How and where the reconnection will occur is an unknown but I would bet on one or more currently inactive gates becoming active again as opposed to a new gate being constructed. I would not be surprised if at least one of the gates in question ends up being one of the inactive gates in Xenon space either.

DLC/Expansion #2 is a complete unknown at this time but there are various possibilities for that one.

Ultimately the argument that there is/was missing base content in X4 is fundamentally flawed reasoning - both from a lore perspective and a product cost perspective.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

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adeine
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by adeine » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 19:38

Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 18:53
DLC/Expansion #2 is a complete unknown at this time but there are various possibilities for that one.
If expansion 2 doesn't coincide with the magnificent reintroduction of the Boron, I'm going to be very heartbroken.

Just saying. :boron:

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Shehriazad » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 19:49

adeine wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 19:38
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 18:53
DLC/Expansion #2 is a complete unknown at this time but there are various possibilities for that one.
If expansion 2 doesn't coincide with the magnificent reintroduction of the Boron, I'm going to be very heartbroken.

Just saying. :boron:
Boron or Terran are what would make most sense for DLC 2....and DLC 3 (if there is any due to the 2 DLCs beforehand being a financial success I guess) would then be the other of the two....after that we'd have to start to get into the more abstract factions if DLCs continue to be a faction things.

Sohnen come to mind...but the presence of this weird sub-faction of Sohnen was a weird plot hole (to me at least, not sure about you) and Im not sure I want to explore more in that direction.

Bringing in the Yaki is possible...but that means we'd now have 3-ish pirate factions in the game...that might be too much.

Doing something with the Xenon/Kha'ak...I feel like that should be expanded in the base game instead, just my opinion.


Or they stop doing main faction DLCs after Split, Boron, Terran and just do entirely different stuff then...maybe even a story based DLC with a few unique ships/weapons here and there that wouldn't properly fit any of them.


BUT...I do hope that Boron return in the 2nd DLC...I've had enough of the Terrans now...Boron on the other hand we'd maybe get some very interesting ship and station designs now. I can already see their defense station...just a GIANT fishbowl XD

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Thecrippler » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 21:25

Shehriazad wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 19:49
adeine wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 19:38
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 18:53
DLC/Expansion #2 is a complete unknown at this time but there are various possibilities for that one.
If expansion 2 doesn't coincide with the magnificent reintroduction of the Boron, I'm going to be very heartbroken.

Just saying. :boron:
Boron or Terran are what would make most sense for DLC 2....and DLC 3 (if there is any due to the 2 DLCs beforehand being a financial success I guess) would then be the other of the two....after that we'd have to start to get into the more abstract factions if DLCs continue to be a faction things.

Sohnen come to mind...but the presence of this weird sub-faction of Sohnen was a weird plot hole (to me at least, not sure about you) and Im not sure I want to explore more in that direction.

Bringing in the Yaki is possible...but that means we'd now have 3-ish pirate factions in the game...that might be too much.

Doing something with the Xenon/Kha'ak...I feel like that should be expanded in the base game instead, just my opinion.


Or they stop doing main faction DLCs after Split, Boron, Terran and just do entirely different stuff then...maybe even a story based DLC with a few unique ships/weapons here and there that wouldn't properly fit any of them.


BUT...I do hope that Boron return in the 2nd DLC...I've had enough of the Terrans now...Boron on the other hand we'd maybe get some very interesting ship and station designs now. I can already see their defense station...just a GIANT fishbowl XD
I think the xenon shot evolved to a next stage somting like geth from mass effect 3 same ting with Kha ak and allowed player to allay one of the faction and have a new war between xenon and kha ak

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by PadainFain » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 22:20

As long as Fleet management, Station management, Fleet AI, Combat AI, Resupply Ships, the economy are fixed first I'll buy an Expansion. Some of that I can see is coming but some of the most often criticised elements of fleets, combat and the economy haven't yet been mentioned in the 1.6/2.0/3.0 road map.

I will be disappointed if the expansion doesn't expand the number of sectors by at least 15. I know others have said more like 3-10 but really the new race's faction needs 3-5 and its sub-faction another 3-5 and then there need to be new ancillary sectors to explore or claim and some Xenon/Kha'ak/Pirate sectors and maybe something new as well.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Thecrippler » Sat, 16. Feb 19, 22:49

PadainFain wrote:
Sat, 16. Feb 19, 22:20
As long as Fleet management, Station management, Fleet AI, Combat AI, Resupply Ships, the economy are fixed first I'll buy an Expansion. Some of that I can see is coming but some of the most often criticised elements of fleets, combat and the economy haven't yet been mentioned in the 1.6/2.0/3.0 road map.

I will be disappointed if the expansion doesn't expand the number of sectors by at least 15. I know others have said more like 3-10 but really the new race's faction needs 3-5 and its sub-faction another 3-5 and then there need to be new ancillary sectors to explore or claim and some Xenon/Kha'ak/Pirate sectors and maybe something new as well.
only 15 sectors you joking right we need 2x sectors

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Nort The Fragrent
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Nort The Fragrent » Tue, 19. Feb 19, 12:06

Growth is exponential with advancements in many directions, purely from the accumulative wealth of previous knowledge. Thus expectations are also requiring more.
With the visual splender of modern tec x4 is quite weak and poor in comparison.

Give the customer what they want else they will go where the view is brighter, cleaner, sharper, faster, and with a lot more content.

Giving specifications as an argument is irrelevant, is it good or is it bad?
The specifications of a car are for the most part incidental, the customer likes the look of the car first and last. Same with a game. Who cares what go’s on under the bonnet! Does it look good and work well.

Currently x4 is missing a good paint job, the frame seems ok but the windows need a clean, and the paint redoing. And maybe a good sound system installed. Not to mention adding wing mirrors, fitting lightbulbs, and putting in some carpet.

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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by RaifalM3n » Tue, 19. Feb 19, 14:08

onestly, i play X3 but rarely this days, the only reason i play it is because of the M2 and M1 ships .
BMW Fanatic with Terran atitude.

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Tue, 19. Feb 19, 20:39

Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Tue, 19. Feb 19, 12:06
Growth is exponential with advancements in many directions, purely from the accumulative wealth of previous knowledge. Thus expectations are also requiring more.
With the visual splender of modern tec x4 is quite weak and poor in comparison.
I think the expectations of some are unrealistic, alot of the comparisons are not comparing like for like and many seem to be ignoring that despite the "fanfare" of some graphics cards developers (and some low entity count games) the more exotic demos are impractical to replicate in practice on the scale that X4 is at.

When an X4 can render a reasonably spaced but well populated wall to wall & floor to ceiling 20km x 20km x 20km complex at a steady 60 Hz with a reasonable level of detail on a standard mainstream gaming machine then we might be in a position to reasonably expect the kind of level of detail that some seem to be looking for without sacrificing any of the scale aspects introduced with X4. :roll:

The fact of the matter is that such an occurrence is unlikely to occur any time soon.
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Re: DLC? Are You Kidding Me? CONTENT PATCHES!

Post by Misunderstood Wookie » Sat, 23. Feb 19, 00:32

Well.. not sure where to begin or if to begin haha.
OP has some points other proven to be invalid by other members of the community. I think the words some are trying to say behind all the passive speaking are 'I wish the base game was more polished before release' and then debate around the things we can all agree are not in a polished state right now.

However for the remarks about things like "Same CV's for each race" I believe this is something a modder can address quite easily I mean we already understand how to rip assets from Rebirth and put them into X4 why not make a request for such under that modding thread, however, This task is hardly worth Egosofts time right now investing resources into artists to make a new ship model for each race when there are better things they could be addressing which are more immediate issues such as the Dreadnaught-class ships and the likes of the two missing ship classes along with properly fixing turrets and making the A.I much less stupid.

I would honestly prefer to pay for the Split DLC and see a future Egosoft remain in 2020 after they have clearly spent a great deal of money and time fixing a game the majority of us hated including myself "Rebirth" when they did not have too and I for one at least have my due respects to pay for them doing so, Rebirth is quite a reasonable experience now yes it is not X4 but in terms of how it began and how it is now I think the reviews of the game could use an update as it is a much better experience thanks to the time they invested, granted I am aware that the motivation may have also come from recouping their development costs but also they do care about their overall fan base and this is plain to see in every X game released up-until Foundations just go look at the feedback and the modding community and how they used both to address the base games in the past.

I have some faith in Egosoft with Foundations, and we all should. This is their next big project it is the main X-game this time around so there is no wool to hide behind as to why it is not the game we expected I imagine they wanted to share X4 sooner than later to appease the more hardcore fanbase which is understandable I enjoyed X3 AP a lot more than Rebirth, Yes there are bugs, yes there are missing base features but so what?
Is there really a point crying foul why can't we behave ourselves and cry when we have something to cry about like I dunno IF... DLC comes out before the base game roadmap is completed, by all means, if that happens bark away. Right now I don't see that being the case as Egosoft has said multiple times they are going to polish X4 Foundations before adding DLC, they themselves have enough experience as a company to understand this.

In the meantime, smaller gripes can be handled by modders if asset replacement is what you want and things do not visually appeal as much as one may like - modding is a good option if you just want to change some assets around as it won't affect balance there for everybody in this community is a winner and can keep using their own mods that alter balance without making hard choices or re-doing a lot of work to balance new items.

Anyway this is my two cents on the matter have a great whatever all.
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