When we are saying that the X4‘s ship is ugly, what are we talking about?

[gustav183]

Egosoft, you really should look at the battleships that infinity makes with the I-Novae engine. Yes, this battleship has no special
but! The hull ratio is coordinated, the shape is normal, and there are no strange designs. The player's requirements are not high, we just want a ship that looks beautiful.

URL：https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=150ANpgnCj8

[Tilen]

Personally, I think it has to do with shapes. For example, the Paranid destroyer's proportions convey scale rather poorly. Then, the Argon destroyera and the Argon carrier look very much alike, which also at distance diminishes scale. The Teladi destroyer looks like a mushroom and also conventionally doesn't quite bring anything massive to mind. I find these to be the biggest offenders.

I also much prefer "blocky" and long designs, like the capital ships in previous games and X4's trade ships. I would think that this may have something to do with contrast. Intelligent designs differ from natural bodies, such as planets, and perhaps this then means that having planets being elyptical and ships as well, does contribute to a loss of sense of scale.

I much preferred Rebirth's capital ship designs.

To put it into context, humans have a natural affinity to baby-like facial features. Big eyes, small face etc. but we find these cute and likable. Looking at the Paranid destroyer design, it also has some of the same features. I lack the vocabulary to put this into words properly, but hopefully you know what I mean. A (large) space ship should look imposing, rather than like a toy.

[gustav183]

Personally, I think it has to do with shapes. For example, the Paranid destroyer's proportions convey scale rather poorly. Then, the Argon destroyera and the Argon carrier look very much alike, which also at distance diminishes scale. The Teladi destroyer looks like a mushroom and also conventionally doesn't quite bring anything massive to mind. I find these to be the biggest offenders.

I also much prefer "blocky" and long designs, like the capital ships in previous games and X4's trade ships. I would think that this may have something to do with contrast. Intelligent designs differ from natural bodies, such as planets, and perhaps this then means that having planets being elyptical and ships as well, does contribute to a loss of sense of scale.

I much preferred Rebirth's capital ship designs.

To put it into context, humans have a natural affinity to baby-like facial features. Big eyes, small face etc. but we find these cute and likable. Looking at the Paranid destroyer design, it also has some of the same features. I lack the vocabulary to put this into words properly, but hopefully you know what I mean. A (large) space ship should look imposing, rather than like a toy.

I agree,The design of the Rebirth's ship is very nice. In fact, if egosoft continues this design, it is actually very labor-saving, but in order to reflect the differences between races, they have to do some very strange design, which really fails.

[Cadvan]

Hmmm

I don't think the x4 ships are ugly. But the one in the video above would never be part of my fleet. What's that? S-class? M-class? Surely not above with the ugly wing tips at front...

You see, ugly or not differs between people.
Only because some here are saying x4 ships are ugly doesn't mean everyone shares your opinion. It's only that we, who likes the x4 Design, don't shout out "not ugly" - why should we??

[Warnoise]

Hmmm

I don't think the x4 ships are ugly. But the one in the video above would never be part of my fleet. What's that? S-class? M-class? Surely not above with the ugly wing tips at front...

You see, ugly or not differs between people.
Only because some here are saying x4 ships are ugly doesn't mean everyone shares your opinion. It's only that we, who likes the x4 Design, don't shout out "not ugly" - why should we??

The people who like the X4 designs are a minority.

[El Novato]

The odysseus looks like a hair dryer.

That´s the uglyest for me.

Sometimes i see the teladi ships and i think i´m playing mario...but it´s becoming bareable for me.

[EmperorDragon]

Well, I don't consider the ships ugly, it's just not my style.

I only use Argon ships and I'm not a fan of the fork designs, it has grown on me over time though so I can accept it. There is enough difference between the Colossus and the Behemoth, they are of similar design, which is normal for same-faction ships but, there is enough difference between them to tell them apart.

The Argon fighters are hideous in my opinion, I really liked the Nova in X3 but cannot stand it's looks in X4. The Eclipse have a bit more... shape to it but I will never touch the Nova, I have a restraining order against it.

To put it into context, humans have a natural affinity to baby-like facial features. Big eyes, small face etc. but we find these cute and likable.

So it's confirmed then, I am indeed Cylon, always knew I was somewhat odd. Those facial features you mention, like the overly disproportioned bug-like facial features so common in Japanese animation annoys the living crap out of me. So I cannot be human.

I'm off to join my Xenon brothers and sisters now. Maybe if I can show them how to build a few Sixes and Eights, they won't be in such a bad mood all the time...

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

The people who like the X4 designs are a minority.

I could claim that the people who hate the X4 designs are an overly vocal minority. Without unequivocal and indisputable stats to back up your claim you are just trying to push your opinion as fact. It is more likely that people will complain about something then praise/defend it, ultimately it is to do with human nature - there are exceptions to this but they do tend to be exceptions. However, in the context of forums it is actually moot what number of people hold a particular opinion, if you feel the need to claim the majority agree with you then you have already lost the debate.

Overall, there are some designs in X4 that are I like, some I am neutral about, and others I think are bad (in the main not for aesthetic reasons though).

The ONLY thing that would cause me to really complain about a ship model is bad practice modelling - I am talking more about T-Vertices, co-planer faces, unjustified holes in model geometry, and bad texture mapping.

Ship models in general do not need to be symmetrical; however, in X4 the vast majority (if not all of them) are.

Scale wise, they are proportional to each other, stations and the avatars that are walking around. Some of that sense of scale can be lost when sitting on the bridge (or in the cockpit) of a given ship but that does not negate the truth of this. The sense of scale is very much like that from what you can perceive in the Babylon 5 TV Series and films.

I like most of the Argon designs (generally look consistent with human ship designs in Sci-Fi), some of the Paranid designs (on the whole they are consistent with general approach to Paranid ship designs since X2), but am ambivalent about the Teladi designs from an aesthetic perspective (the Teladi designs do have a certain degree of charm to them and look like I might expect them to from a lore perspective). From a turret layout perspective I think the Teladi capitals are probably the worst.

Would I consider any ship in X4 ugly from any particular standpoint though? I would say no.

[EmperorDragon]

stations and the avatars that are walking around.

There are no avatars in X4. An avatar is a remote-controlled machine (or being) representing a specific person, X4 don't have those, not yet...

[Max Bain]

The people who like the X4 designs are a minority.

I could claim that the people who hate the X4 designs are an overly vocal minority. Without unequivocal and indisputable stats to back up your claim you are just trying to push your opinion as fact. It is more likely that people will complain about something then praise/defend it, ultimately it is to do with human nature - there are exceptions to this but they do tend to be exceptions. However, in the context of forums it is actually moot what number of people hold a particular opinion, if you feel the need to claim the majority agree with you then you have already lost the debate.

Overall, there are some designs in X4 that are I like, some I am neutral about, and others I think are bad (in the main not for aesthetic reasons though).

The ONLY thing that would cause me to really complain about a ship model is bad practice modelling - I am talking more about T-Vertices, co-planer faces, unjustified holes in model geometry, and bad texture mapping.

Ship models in general do not need to be symmetrical; however, in X4 the vast majority (if not all of them) are.

Scale wise, they are proportional to each other, stations and the avatars that are walking around. Some of that sense of scale can be lost when sitting on the bridge (or in the cockpit) of a given ship but that does not negate the truth of this. The sense of scale is very much like that from what you can perceive in the Babylon 5 TV Series and films.

I like most of the Argon designs (generally look consistent with human ship designs in Sci-Fi), some of the Paranid designs (on the whole they are consistent with general approach to Paranid ship designs since X2), but am ambivalent about the Teladi designs from an aesthetic perspective (the Teladi designs do have a certain degree of charm to them and look like I might expect them to from a lore perspective). From a turret layout perspective I think the Teladi capitals are probably the worst.

Would I consider any ship in X4 ugly from any particular standpoint though? I would say no.

While I agree with you that normally people complain more if they dont like something than defend/praise if they like something, I think that X4 is an exception here. I have never seen so many threads popping up about bad designed ships in any other game in the last years, so something fundamentally must have gone wrong here and its obviously visible.
I am also pretty sure that Egosoft lost a good art designer and the new one had to do his job now which sure are some big shoes he has to wear.

Also no race needs to have the same ship design over and over again just because it is made by the same race. That is unrealistic and looks boring like hell. It feels like copy and pase...
Eve Online is a great example how you can make ships look very different but you can clearly see what ship is made by each race. For example one race uses more roundish shapes while another one has more hard edges. Another faction is more slim and so on... https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bac6yvYzaVI/maxresdefault.jpg

[gustav183]

Hmmm

I don't think the x4 ships are ugly. But the one in the video above would never be part of my fleet. What's that? S-class? M-class? Surely not above with the ugly wing tips at front...

You see, ugly or not differs between people.
Only because some here are saying x4 ships are ugly doesn't mean everyone shares your opinion. It's only that we, who likes the x4 Design, don't shout out "not ugly" - why should we??

enough! Don't ass-wiping again! So many people criticize the X4 ship design, but you can't see it? ? You fanboy let egosoft to go astray, they think that their design is very good, it is incredible.Have you seen how many people are praising the X4 ship design?

Don't ass-wiping again!

[Cadvan]

Hmmm

I don't think the x4 ships are ugly. But the one in the video above would never be part of my fleet. What's that? S-class? M-class? Surely not above with the ugly wing tips at front...

You see, ugly or not differs between people.
Only because some here are saying x4 ships are ugly doesn't mean everyone shares your opinion. It's only that we, who likes the x4 Design, don't shout out "not ugly" - why should we??

enough! Don't ass-wiping again! So many people criticize the X4 ship design, but you can't see it? ? You fanboy let egosoft to go astray, they think that their design is very good, it is incredible.Have you seen how many people are praising the X4 ship design?

Don't ass-wiping again!

And here we have the prime example why we, who don't have reason to complain, are staying silent most time.
The haters who gonna insult us because our opinion doesn't match their.

I'm with you when you say egosoft had better designed ships in the past. But that doesn't mean the ships of x4 are ugly per se. It's only your opinion, and of course you have the right to think so. Taste differs!!!

[Terre]

Personal insults will not be tolerated on these forums, warnings will be handed out if this continues.

Please return to the OP's topic.

[Admiral Sausage]

I for one, like quite a few of the ship designs. The mushroom Teladi ships look very practical, and are an improvement over the X3 Teladi ships. The Argon fighters are varied and interesting, with the Eclipse having a particular appeal. I like the way that the smoother, more organic outlines of the Xenon ships compared to their old jagged, unplanned-looking ships shows that they are evolving their own identity. I'm not keen on sticky-out bits of the Paranid L and XL ships, but then again I didn't like them in X3 either. The Argon destroyer and carrier are a bit boring, but I wouldn't say that the ship in the video in the OP is any better, though it has a better paint-job.

The only thing really wrong with the ship designs in X4 is that there aren't enough of them.

[Warnoise]

The people who like the X4 designs are a minority.

I could claim that the people who hate the X4 designs are an overly vocal minority. Without unequivocal and indisputable stats to back up your claim you are just trying to push your opinion as fact. It is more likely that people will complain about something then praise/defend it, ultimately it is to do with human nature - there are exceptions to this but they do tend to be exceptions. However, in the context of forums it is actually moot what number of people hold a particular opinion, if you feel the need to claim the majority agree with you then you have already lost the debate.

Overall, there are some designs in X4 that are I like, some I am neutral about, and others I think are bad (in the main not for aesthetic reasons though).

The ONLY thing that would cause me to really complain about a ship model is bad practice modelling - I am talking more about T-Vertices, co-planer faces, unjustified holes in model geometry, and bad texture mapping.

Ship models in general do not need to be symmetrical; however, in X4 the vast majority (if not all of them) are.

Scale wise, they are proportional to each other, stations and the avatars that are walking around. Some of that sense of scale can be lost when sitting on the bridge (or in the cockpit) of a given ship but that does not negate the truth of this. The sense of scale is very much like that from what you can perceive in the Babylon 5 TV Series and films.

I like most of the Argon designs (generally look consistent with human ship designs in Sci-Fi), some of the Paranid designs (on the whole they are consistent with general approach to Paranid ship designs since X2), but am ambivalent about the Teladi designs from an aesthetic perspective (the Teladi designs do have a certain degree of charm to them and look like I might expect them to from a lore perspective). From a turret layout perspective I think the Teladi capitals are probably the worst.

Would I consider any ship in X4 ugly from any particular standpoint though? I would say no.

Go search the forums about polls talking about designs. Debating for the sake of debating doesn't lead anywhere other than flame war.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

I for one, like quite a few of the ship designs. The mushroom Teladi ships look very practical, and are an improvement over the X3 Teladi ships. The Argon fighters are varied and interesting, with the Eclipse having a particular appeal. I like the way that the smoother, more organic outlines of the Xenon ships compared to their old jagged, unplanned-looking ships shows that they are evolving their own identity. I'm not keen on sticky-out bits of the Paranid L and XL ships, but then again I didn't like them in X3 either. The Argon destroyer and carrier are a bit boring, but I wouldn't say that the ship in the video in the OP is any better, though it has a better paint-job.

The only thing really wrong with the ship designs in X4 is that there aren't enough of them.

+1, completely agree.
Some more ship models could be fine, but then it's not that you have just a couple of ships at the moment.
Only a destroyer and a carrier model per race makes sense, in my opinion, because (from the race point of view) there is no need in building two different destroyer designs.
Same for frigates / bombers (I still don't get so much the difference between them, honestly, from how you "use" them).
On the other hand, it's a game, and variety is always a pro in games.

So, in the end, I'm undecided on the "number of ships" matter, but like the game so far.

[BattleXer]

The odysseus looks like a hair dryer.

Lol, exactly my thoughts...

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

...

While I agree with you that normally people complain more if they dont like something than defend/praise if they like something, I think that X4 is an exception here. I have never seen so many threads popping up about bad designed ships in any other game in the last years, so something fundamentally must have gone wrong here and its obviously visible.
I am also pretty sure that Egosoft lost a good art designer and the new one had to do his job now which sure are some big shoes he has to wear.

There have always been complaining about ship designs in X from some quarters, very little has changed in that regard. There have been some exceptional ship model designs that many have particularly liked but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Other games IME are little different, what has become different in recent years is the sheer volume of complainers across most games - some of it is justified, but a lot of it (like complaints about model aesthetics) is not.

Also no race needs to have the same ship design over and over again just because it is made by the same race. That is unrealistic and looks boring like hell. It feels like copy and pase...

Actually, given the setting of the X-Universe as it is now it is pretty fair and quite realistic all things considered. In X4, we are talking about a universe recovering from a kind of apocalypse (the gate network shutdown) and things are only just starting to properly recover from that event.

Eve Online is a great example how you can make ships look very different but you can clearly see what ship is made by each race. For example one race uses more roundish shapes while another one has more hard edges. Another faction is more slim and so on... https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bac6yvYzaVI/maxresdefault.jpg

The less I say about EvE the better it will be for everyone concerned but I would wish the EvE rejects would stop raising that game as an example to be followed in every space game forum.

The current ship designs may be limited in variety but that variety is on the most part explained and justified by the X-universe lore. As for the designs themselves, they are also in keeping with the baseline established with prior X-games. The main effort on the modelling front seems to be in many diverse areas including station modules, capital ship bridges, and ship internal designs overall. This is not the first forum to complain unreasonably about ship modelling variations and it probably will not be the last.

We are led to believe that there will be at least a return of the Split as a major race and I would not be surprised if there is a return of the Boron too. I would expect there to be a handful of new/revived ship designs spread between them and anyone expecting a high degree of variety is almost certainly being unrealistic in their expectations overall.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

The people who like the X4 designs are a minority.

I could claim that the people who hate the X4 designs are an overly vocal minority. Without unequivocal and indisputable stats to back up your claim you are just trying to push your opinion as fact.

Go search the forums about polls talking about designs. Debating for the sake of debating doesn't lead anywhere other than flame war.

Hardly unequivocal or indisputable evidence - the fact of the matter is that is moot what number of people like or dislike given ship designs, like it or not game design is not a democratic process.

Minority/Majority claims are moot - such claims are the cause of flame wars, is better to leave such claims out of forums. Same goes for dodgy steam chart statistics. It is better to stick to personal opinions rather than trying to project those opinions as facts.

[Tomonor]

This thread again. Do you really expect Egosoft to remodel every ship in the game?

It was said numerous times that the ships were designed like this to accomodate the modular and first person mode functions. Sacrifices had to be made to fit the X4 profile, thus most of them are similar in appearance.

Therefore you will have to learn to live with this in X4, unless you start remodelling them yourself.