Maybe a stupid question re Vulkan but I don't understand... - Closed

[waynetarlton]

Not sure how this works, perhaps someone might be able to explain:

Everything working fine so far as game not crashing out. So I assume it should continue as such providing the game doesn't update and I don't update the Vulkan release.

All of sudden, the game crashes. Check Vulkan, and yes a new update.

But why did it crash, when the game hasn't updated so nothing's changed, nor anything changed in Vulkan. Shouldn't it just continue like it was ??

[Nafensoriel]

Every time you touch software you teleport to a magical land of snakes and spaghetti. When you touch one something happens. No ones really sure why it happens. Sometimes you can change the colour of a button and crash your server.

Basically every single time you update something you run the risk of adding a bug(crashing). Just because it worked before doesnt mean it will work after an update.

Though I am a little unclear what you mean by update. Do you mean 2.0 beta3? or an update to vulkan itself? The beta is a beta and crashing is expected. Post a report on what you were doing when the crash occured so they can fix it. If you are talking about a vulkan API update... well that doesnt mean diddly squat unless egosoft updates their title with that update.

[waynetarlton]

No, not making my self clear. Patches are updates right.

Example: System works perfectly fine.

Then Vulkan has an update patch (which I don't know about yet not downloaded or applied yet).

So nothing in my system has changed in anyway BUT the system crashes the game UNTIL I get the new patch.


So, the question is, if nothing's changed on my system, i.e. no patches applied, why should it know to crash until I get the patch.

[Helmut_AUT]

Sometimes things crash only after a while.

Another option would be that other parts of your system got an update (Windows directly for example) and the Vulcan update is needed to make it compatible again.

[infinoid]

Are you saying that the existence of the update is what causes the crash?

Maybe Vulkan has some mechanism of informing you of updates, but that mechanism doesn't work and causes crashes. (Seems unlikely to me, but it matches your symptoms...)

[radcapricorn]

Err... what exactly is this "Vulkan update"? Vulkan on its own doesn't "update", it's part of your GPU driver and only updates with that. That said, there's also the Vulkan SDK, which for all I know on Windows could be updating separately, but that shouldn't cause any issues.

[Alan Phipps]

I *suspect* that the 'Vulkan update' would have come bundled along with a graphics card driver update that was designed to fix a potential issue in or with the previous driver version(s). Then when the crashes finally started to happen due to that issue (perhaps because the game universe or situation in progress was getting more demanding), the graphics driver update was needed to resolve the issue. That would be my theory anyway.

The Windows Error Reports at the end of a DxDiag report or the in-game dump files generated could throw some more light on exactly what was crashing.

[Nafensoriel]

@waynetarlton
To enhance a bit on what Alan said you should never normally need to update the vulkan API. In fact, YOU cant directly update it since its integrated into the game itself. If your driver package or windows has a "Vulkan update" its to address a specific issue with your hardware. If you downloaded an update from any other source than your GPU driver or windows then you've entered an entirely new problem.

API(vulkan) is like a highway system. A graphics engine is the car on the highway. The games scripts/code is the operator of the car.
You should never need to interact with an API as a user anymore.

[waynetarlton]

To Hemut_AUT, thanks for your response. It seems you're the only one who understood and answered.


? Vulkan doesn't need updating with patches?? ; after the game crashes you are redirected to the Egosoft (?) website that instructs you to update your Vulkan drivers. It is also painfully obvious that I'm NOT referring to the vulkan programming in the game simply because it can't be updated by me.

? Do I mean crashes after the updates .... how to explain it better.... other than referring to previous explanations... I can't explain it better, the answer is NO.

? Why do people want to keep mentioning Beta, obviously this would have been stated if this was the case.

[radcapricorn]

So... let's see if I finally managed to decipher your problem correctly.

- the game was working fine up until recently
- then it started crashing, with crash report directing you to the Egosoft bugtracker, where you're also advised to make sure that you're running the latest drivers
- because your drivers are already latest and you haven't touched them at all, you now can't understand why the game started crashing

Is the above correct? If so, then you should be posting in the Technical Support forum, providing all information that the first sticky post of that forum requests, and that Alan already mentioned here.

Here we can only advise to:
- check that your system specs are actually sufficient to run the game
- check that your hardware isn't overheating
- wait for a new release or test with the latest Beta to see if your game keeps crashing there as well. Beta updates usually contain fixes for various crashes.

[waynetarlton]

All except point 3.

I fail to understand why people can't see the words I have written.

Just let it go.

[radcapricorn]

I have a guess that's due to all the words that you haven't written. We can't see what's in your head, and what you've expressed so far is not sufficient. If you want to be understood, you should make the effort, not lash out on people that are trying to help you. Let's try one more time...

Example: System works perfectly fine.
Then Vulkan has an update patch (which I don't know about yet not downloaded or applied yet).
So nothing in my system has changed in anyway BUT the system crashes the game UNTIL I get the new patch.

No. That's not what happens and not what the bugtracker tells you. It tells you to make sure that you are in fact running the latest drivers. Because one of the reasons to update the drivers is to fix bugs in them that may cause crashes. But it certainly doesn't mean that drivers are the only reason for crashes.

So, the question is, if nothing's changed on my system, i.e. no patches applied, why should it know to crash until I get the patch.

It doesn't know that, and it doesn't crash on purpose. But obviously there must be a reason for a crash to happen. Like maybe there's a problem in the game that simply manifested itself only recently. Like, you know, a bug. In the game.

[waynetarlton]

As I said, it does make sense because another has answered the question perfectly simply by reading the words I have written, rather than supposing I mean different to the words.

[Nafensoriel]

To Hemut_AUT, thanks for your response. It seems you're the only one who understood and answered.


? Vulkan doesn't need updating with patches?? ; after the game crashes you are redirected to the Egosoft (?) website that instructs you to update your Vulkan drivers. It is also painfully obvious that I'm NOT referring to the vulkan programming in the game simply because it can't be updated by me.

? Do I mean crashes after the updates .... how to explain it better.... other than referring to previous explanations... I can't explain it better, the answer is NO.

? Why do people want to keep mentioning Beta, obviously this would have been stated if this was the case.

First off, software doesn't just "crash" without reason. There is always a reason.

Secondly, you don't "update" an API anymore. Vulkan is not your AMD/Nvidia gfx driver. In a modern OS(win7/10) you will never actively need to touch your API beyond hitting "windows update" for the standard user. Trying to muck around with DirectX or Vulkan is a good way to cause permanent performance issues and crashes. Not to mention the interaction with an API and a game engine are finite. An API update doesn't give the engine any new features. The engine can only use what it was programmed to use.

You cant explain if a problem occurred before or after a game update or a system update? Those are pretty darn different things. Either one could cause different problems. If you are complaining about a crash that started after you updated your GRAPHICS DRIVER then our support will lean to directing you to beta updates, correct updates, or how to downgrade to the previous driver. If it was related to a GAME UPDATE we would be directing you to EGOSOFTs technical support area. These are of course just examples but highlight why YOU need to provide MORE information than you are giving.

We mention beta because it is pretty darn standard for a typical user to download "beta" patches and then try to seek support for problems that happen while using "beta" software. It's important to establish that you are NOT using the beta before ANYONE can help you. Since the game has NOT received any mainline updates recently but your post coincided with a new BETA release its fairly safe to assume you could have been talking about that BETA update hence people asking you to clarify your situation.

[Alan Phipps]

Also all this argument would possibly be moot if available DxDiag error reports, Vulkaninfo or dump files can tell exactly what is crashing and even why.

[waynetarlton]

This has already been answered.

Let it go.