Automated ware delivery above the 5 sector limit/shipyards selling shipbuilding resources

[pref]

I have seen some posts over at beta forum that player complexes with ship building related modules will not sell ship building resources any more.
Is this an intended change or a bug?

How are we supposed to get our wares outside the max 5 sector radius without having to manually do trade runs constantly then?

I was hoping i could create warehouses which would buy wares of my production complex, and resell them to nearby shipyards. But since endproducts cannot be bought, for this it is a must to have a dock/wharf on the warehouse to turn endproducts into resources.
If these stations will not sell the wares because of that then i see no way to manage logistics in an acceptable manner..

I'd be curious what else options i have then?
I'd really prefer having production centralised in my own space, much more flexible solution in case a relation change happens with any race. Also there are less issues with AI config, less time spent in map and more in my spaceship, less time spent on the employee skill misery, generally more effective with build time and costs, and also i just love the space cities this game made possible to create.

My last hope with this 5 sector trade limit was that i can build logistic centres around the galaxy which are just empty warehouses with an EQ dock attached and config some ATs on them so the wares can reach shipyards further away, but this seems to be impossible now

[GCU Grey Area]

Think you may be underestimating just how far a trader can go with a 5 gate range. A complex in a relatively central location e.g. Nopileos (location of your astonishing space city?) should have sufficient range to get to ALL shipyards, wharves & EQ docks in the game without needing any intermediate warehouses.

[pref]

Think you may be underestimating just how far a trader can go with a 5 gate range. A complex in a relatively central location e.g. Nopileos (location of your astonishing space city?) should have sufficient range to get to ALL shipyards, wharves & EQ docks in the game without needing any intermediate warehouses.

Not sure how you mean that.
It's the paranid shipyards and MIN based on distance. Also that was my in game experience in the couple days i could play under 2.0.
It might be even worse since ships don't take the shortest route but go along highways. So MIN is also questionable, but i could not confirm that.

And it's not just about nopileos, but any location player picks for production.

[GCU Grey Area]

Not sure how you mean that.
It's the paranid shipyards and MIN based on distance. Also that was my in game experience in the couple days i could play under 2.0.
It might be even worse since ships don't take the shortest route but go along highways. So MIN is also questionable, but i could not confirm that.

And it's not just about nopileos, but any location player picks for production.

Would be surprised if they can't use the shortcut through Grand Exchange & Black Hole Sun to get to ARG & ANT shipyards - think this is the route traders from my smart chip complex in 18 Billion have been using to get to HOP shipyard & wharf. Have seen them in Holy Vision & any route which didn't include Grand Exchange would exceed 5 gates - i.e. couldn't get there if they started out by going north through Silent Witness or east through Memory of Profit.

[pref]

Would be surprised if they can't use the shortcut through Grand Exchange & Black Hole Sun to get to ARG & ANT shipyards - think this is the route traders from my smart chip complex in 18 Billion have been using to get to HOP shipyard & wharf. Have seen them in Holy Vision & any route which didn't include Grand Exchange would exceed 5 gates - i.e. couldn't get there if they started out by going north through Silent Witness or east through Memory of Profit.

Either way it's over the 5 sector limit, and the question is not about how to trade to/from nopileos with AP, but how can wares get further away then 5 sectors (sectors != clusters).
If you have any suggestions i'd be happy to hear that for the problem.

[GCU Grey Area]

Either way it's over the 5 sector limit, and the question is not about how to trade to/from nopileos with AP, but how can wares get further away then 5 sectors (sectors != clusters).
If you have any suggestions i'd be happy to hear that for the problem.

The limit is gates, not sectors.

[Scoob]

Blimey, is 5 Gates / Sectors distance the limit for a full Five Star Captain then? This is a total game-breaker.

I just posted a query about this, as even using four Star Captains the best I could buy by cheesing the "buy a cheap ship, re-assign the Captain" method my station-assigned Freighters can only go four sectors. This one change has totally crippled my game! Ships that could trade longer distances in my prior game (started in 1.6) would basically break my entire infrastructure if I'd continued that save.

Having started fresh in 2.0, then quickly moving to 2.2 Beta when I came out, I didn't start assigning ships to my Station until recently. Like many I imagine, I claimed one of the neutral sectors and set up a production facility for Microchips - very much in demand in my game - unaware of the impending changes. I assigned a low-star Captain who couldn't even leave the sector - no buyers needless to say - and even my best Captains cannot find any buyers, yet the universe is full of them, just a few (more) sectors away.

I feel that this change is a total game-breaker. I mean, what's so hard about flying through a few gates?

I'm really quite frustrated by this, and it's going to frustrate the hell out of lots of people I imagine. I don't get that I can manually order my ships all over the place for hours and hours, finally get to the point where I can automate my income via a very expensive station complex, only to find out that station assigned freighters are now utterly useless.

Scoob.

[pref]

The limit is gates, not sectors.

Possible that it's a cluster range, thought it isn't because none of my traders went for AP from nopileos.
But all the ships go for the highway route around paranid space when i queue a manual order, might be the reason is pathing then not because accelerators/superhighways count.

[pref]

Blimey, is 5 Gates / Sectors distance the limit for a full Five Star Captain then? This is a total game-breaker.

I just posted a query about this, as even using four Star Captains the best I could buy by cheesing the "buy a cheap ship, re-assign the Captain" method my station-assigned Freighters can only go four sectors. This one change has totally crippled my game! Ships that could trade longer distances in my prior game (started in 1.6) would basically break my entire infrastructure if I'd continued that save.

Having started fresh in 2.0, then quickly moving to 2.2 Beta when I came out, I didn't start assigning ships to my Station until recently. Like many I imagine, I claimed one of the neutral sectors and set up a production facility for Microchips - very much in demand in my game - unaware of the impending changes. I assigned a low-star Captain who couldn't even leave the sector - no buyers needless to say - and even my best Captains cannot find any buyers, yet the universe is full of them, just a few (more) sectors away.

I feel that this change is a total game-breaker. I mean, what's so hard about flying through a few gates?

I'm really quite frustrated by this, and it's going to frustrate the hell out of lots of people I imagine. I don't get that I can manually order my ships all over the place for hours and hours, finally get to the point where I can automate my income via a very expensive station complex, only to find out that station assigned freighters are now utterly useless.

Scoob.

Yeah same here. And it's ATs as well, not just station traders. My plan was to conquer silent witness with all the friendly mines and Tharka's cascade, set up shop in one of those sectors.
Then first when i saw this 5 sector limit i thought i can get around with logistic stations on the way to TEL and the rest. It could have even served as a set of waypoints to avoid argon space as i wanted to start a war with them. Could be a nice feature if ES implemented the tools for the mechanics not just the limitations as they have done with crew skills.
But it seems docks cannot sell any shipbuilding resources any more.

What's even worse setting up relay stations for claytronics is completely impossible as that is en endproduct no matter what i do, and none of my stations would buy it.

[Scoob]

Yeah same here. My plan was to conquer silent witness with all the friendly mines and Tharka's cascade, set up shop in one of those sectors.
Then first when i saw this 5 sector limit i thought i can get around with logistic stations on the way to TEL and the rest.
But it seems docks cannot sell any shipbuilding resources any more.

What's even worse setting up relay stations for claytronics is completely impossible as that is en endproduct no matter what i do, and none of my stations would buy it.

If this abomination of a change is here to stay, I hope it's something that can be addressed by a mod. I've tried to stay vanilla, so I can aid with bug reporting and feedback, but I was obliged to mod initially due to the broken turrets. Thankfully though that was fixed. I hope too that this "thing" is fixed in a subsequent update.

I totally fail to see how this in any way helps the game, it's placing massive artificial restrictions on gameplay.

X Rebirths Warehouses popped into my brain for a moment, but....wrong game lol.

I feel that fully autonomous ships - so those Autotrading or station-free auto-mining - having limits is ok. Those assigned to stations however need MUCH more flexibility. I don't want to have to have stations in every sector just so they can trade with each other. I want to build large complexes in quiet (fps friendly) area and ship my goods across the universe. Why even bother with L-Class Freighters if they cannot even fly more than five minutes from home *sigh*

Scoob.

[pref]

If this abomination of a change is here to stay, I hope it's something that can be addressed by a mod.

I checked on TaterTrader, which i did not want to install originally due to it breaking the game with it's too perfect trade logic - can make millions per L freighter run which doesn't do good to general gameplay.
It's not really the mod's fault but more the lack of good balance with possible trade profit and general costs, but easier to adjust a mod to that then changing overall trade balance properly.

But TaterTrader hasn't been updated since mid january - i have some fears that it will not work with 2.x.
Seems i have to make a logistics trade script for myself which can allow trades between player stations regardless of buy/sell/range restrictions (could only transfer wares and so not hurt game balance with trade incomes).
Pity i cannot play now due to that sound bug, i'm between work projects for a week or two. And anyway ES should implement necessary mechanics for their game, not random guys using their free time

[Scoob]

As the new ranges appear to largely be Stars = Range, a way to rebalance that would be a quick fix. Sadly I had zero X4 modding experience, so wouldn't know where to start looking.

Basically, rather than the current system of (guessing a bit here) of one Star = one Sector, I'd love to edit this out to one Star = three Sectors, two Stars = six Sectors, three Stars = nine Sectors etc. etc. or something along those lines.

Scoob.

[GCU Grey Area]

The limit is gates, not sectors.

Possible that it's a cluster range, thought it isn't because none of my traders went for AP from nopileos.
But all the ships go for the highway route around paranid space when i queue a manual order, might be the reason is pathing then not because accelerators/superhighways count.

Well, definitely saw that ship from 18 Billion trading smart chips to the shipyard in Holy Vision, a 5 gate journey by the most direct route. It is perhaps possible it went a different route? Did not observe it's flightpath, just noted it was there (until that point had assumed HV shipyard would be out of range). Maybe gate limit just determines if a trade is viable, but pathing may send it a different way?

[pref]

As the new ranges appear to largely be Stars = Range, a way to rebalance that would be a quick fix. Sadly I had zero X4 modding experience, so wouldn't know where to start looking.

Basically, rather than the current system of (guessing a bit here) of one Star = one Sector, I'd love to edit this out to one Star = three Sectors, two Stars = six Sectors, three Stars = nine Sectors etc. etc. or something along those lines.

Scoob.

Made a quick change for this, range = skill (pilot/management), not skill/3.
TradeRangeIncrease mod

Can't test it much because i get CTD in 30 mins tops, but should work if no other mod changes the affected trade script. Had a ship selling with it from nopileos to the ANT wharf so they do pick targets further away.

Though it is really insufficient, there should be a way to control ware flow in much more detail.

[Scoob]

Made a quick change for this, range = skill (pilot/management), not skill/3.
TradeRangeIncrease mod

Can't test it much because i get CTD in 30 mins tops, but should work if no other mod changes the affected trade script. Had a ship selling with it from nopileos to the ANT wharf so they do pick targets further away.

Though it is really insufficient, there should be a way to control ware flow in much more detail.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Sadly I've run out of time this evening, but will hopefully have some time tomorrow.

Scoob.

[pref]

Well, definitely saw that ship from 18 Billion trading smart chips to the shipyard in Holy Vision, a 5 gate journey by the most direct route. It is perhaps possible it went a different route? Did not observe it's flightpath, just noted it was there (until that point had assumed HV shipyard would be out of range). Maybe gate limit just determines if a trade is viable, but pathing may send it a different way?

Checked the trade scripts, it counts distance in clusters.
Though i don't know if it checks distance based on actual path to target or just shortest route. I saw no distance factor in trade offer evaluation so i suspected AP is out of range from there. ATs pick some real weird targets anyway sometimes so it could be some other unrelated reason or bug even.
They even pick trades closer then AP while price is more then 10% lower and volume is 1/3 of what AP stations offer.

[duncan idaho]

I'd love to hear the devs justification for this change. Were autotraders too profitable? Are you trying to boost local vs global economic development? Or was it just to decrease the CPU burden of iterating over so many stations?

[GCU Grey Area]

Though i don't know if it checks distance based on actual path to target or just shortest route.

This morning one of my traders provided strong evidence that distance is probably based on shortest potential route, rather than actual path flown. It was just flying from 18 Billion to Grand Exchange I but decided to take the long way round through Argon Prime (that was the point at which I spotted it's ludicrous route to the sector next door). Not only is this certainly not the shortest route by any measure (definitely needs fixing), it also exceeds the max gates that ship is supposed to be able to travel, passing through 6 gates to get to it's destination.

[pref]

This morning one of my traders provided strong evidence that distance is probably based on shortest potential route, rather than actual path flown. It was just flying from 18 Billion to Grand Exchange I but decided to take the long way round through Argon Prime (that was the point at which I spotted it's ludicrous route to the sector next door). Not only is this certainly not the shortest route by any measure (definitely needs fixing), it also exceeds the max gates that ship is supposed to be able to travel, passing through 6 gates to get to it's destination.

Thanks. So it should go 5 gates regardless of pathing.
Then AT scripts must have some other issues, i really don't get why they would not go that far for a higher volume more profitable deal. Haven't seen any distance related logic in the script.

[Ragman]

Little offtopic, but if you are in ship but let your ship captain fly it, captain uses some weird logic to get from A to the B... I asked it fly to the ore belt in same system it took highway and fly whole ring around to get that belt...