Research in 3.0

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Falcrack
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Research in 3.0

Post by Falcrack » Fri, 19. Apr 19, 02:46

CBJ wrote:
Sat, 26. Jan 19, 01:18
For all updates, we are working on better missions. At the latest for 3.00 we plan to have a number of new and improved combat missions in particular. An area we want to combine this with is improved research (in the player HQ) and the ability to potentially even move the player HQ to a different location.
Egosoft has said that for 3.0, they were working on improved research options. How would you like to see research implemented? What sort of improvements in research are you hoping for? Here are some ideas I've had.

1. Research requires Research Modules that can be added to stations. No more solo research from your generous, genius Boron friend. Multiple research modules can be added to a station or stations. They require workforce to be functional.

2. Research follows closely along the lines of what already exists in terms of ship mods. Except that instead of researching improvements to apply to a single ship, the research would allow you to apply these improvements to every ship or module that you produce. So if you research an improved engine, then every ship that gets this improved engine at an equipment dock or shipyard will get the benefit.

3. Research requires research points, which are generated by research modules using credits and wares, based on what you are researching. Inventory items can speed the process along, but are not mandatory. Research points are project-specific, and are not transferrable. Shield research would require shield components, ship chassis research would require hull parts, turret research would require turret components, etc. It would make sense to have research modules at shipyards, since that is where all these components would be going anyways.

4. Multiple research modules assigned to the same research project can be used to complete the research faster. Alternatively, you could split your different research modules among different projects.

5. Research can also be used to improve various aspects of production modules on stations, such as increased production efficiency, lowered build cost of the module itself, etc. It can be used to improve deployables as well, such as making faster missiles, satellites with improved radius, more effective countermeasures, etc.

6. NPC factions are researching alongside the player, continuously improving ships and modules over time. A state of the art ship at the beginning of the game might become obsolete by 200 hours in.

7. You can reverse engineer ships and modules in order to obtain the blueprint. This consumes the item being reverse engineered. We can then either produce that module, or use it as a starting point for our own research. Individual items which have been improved by mods can be reverse engineered.

8. You can buy blueprints of ships and modules that have been improved via research from NPC factions, and use that as a starting point for our own research. If your research results in superior ships and modules, you can sell the blueprints you produce to NPC factions.

9. Research projects can be queued up in advance, so the next research can begin immediately after the last project is finished.

10. There is no end to the research tech tree. You can incrementally improve every existing ship or module forever if you want, although the more times a particular ship/module has been improved, it becomes increasingly costly to get to the next level. For example, the first research that improves a shield’s output by 10% takes maybe 20 research points to complete, the next 10% increase to shield output takes 40 research points, then 80 research points, etc.

Imperial Good
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Re: Research in 3.0

Post by Imperial Good » Fri, 19. Apr 19, 04:30

I think the player HQ is a research station/module. Additional ones are not needed as such since you basically have a massive space lab already.

Research should be a form of progression. The first technologies are cheap if not even free. However better ones are more costly, take longer to research and might even have very specific requirements before research can start.

Without touching the current free research tree (which really should not be free...) a number of technology ideas come to mind. For example one could research turrets Mk2 to build for player ships once one owns a warf or shipyard blueprint and all basic turret blueprints. The research would cost around 250M credits, 10,000 turret components, etc. Another research could be to improve the quality of mod rolls (less RNG) available after researching exceptional mods and requires a lot of exceptional mod components and credits.

Nifhtyeq
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Re: Research in 3.0

Post by Nifhtyeq » Sat, 27. Apr 19, 16:36

Falcrack wrote:
Fri, 19. Apr 19, 02:46
CBJ wrote:
Sat, 26. Jan 19, 01:18
For all updates, we are working on better missions. At the latest for 3.00 we plan to have a number of new and improved combat missions in particular. An area we want to combine this with is improved research (in the player HQ) and the ability to potentially even move the player HQ to a different location.
Egosoft has said that for 3.0, they were working on improved research options. How would you like to see research implemented? What sort of improvements in research are you hoping for? Here are some ideas I've had.

1. Research requires Research Modules that can be added to stations. No more solo research from your generous, genius Boron friend. Multiple research modules can be added to a station or stations. They require workforce to be functional.

2. Research follows closely along the lines of what already exists in terms of ship mods. Except that instead of researching improvements to apply to a single ship, the research would allow you to apply these improvements to every ship or module that you produce. So if you research an improved engine, then every ship that gets this improved engine at an equipment dock or shipyard will get the benefit.

3. Research requires research points, which are generated by research modules using credits and wares, based on what you are researching. Inventory items can speed the process along, but are not mandatory. Research points are project-specific, and are not transferrable. Shield research would require shield components, ship chassis research would require hull parts, turret research would require turret components, etc. It would make sense to have research modules at shipyards, since that is where all these components would be going anyways.

4. Multiple research modules assigned to the same research project can be used to complete the research faster. Alternatively, you could split your different research modules among different projects.

5. Research can also be used to improve various aspects of production modules on stations, such as increased production efficiency, lowered build cost of the module itself, etc. It can be used to improve deployables as well, such as making faster missiles, satellites with improved radius, more effective countermeasures, etc.

6. NPC factions are researching alongside the player, continuously improving ships and modules over time. A state of the art ship at the beginning of the game might become obsolete by 200 hours in.

7. You can reverse engineer ships and modules in order to obtain the blueprint. This consumes the item being reverse engineered. We can then either produce that module, or use it as a starting point for our own research. Individual items which have been improved by mods can be reverse engineered.

8. You can buy blueprints of ships and modules that have been improved via research from NPC factions, and use that as a starting point for our own research. If your research results in superior ships and modules, you can sell the blueprints you produce to NPC factions.

9. Research projects can be queued up in advance, so the next research can begin immediately after the last project is finished.

10. There is no end to the research tech tree. You can incrementally improve every existing ship or module forever if you want, although the more times a particular ship/module has been improved, it becomes increasingly costly to get to the next level. For example, the first research that improves a shield’s output by 10% takes maybe 20 research points to complete, the next 10% increase to shield output takes 40 research points, then 80 research points, etc.
All these seem like pretty good ideas to improve research.

Olfrygt
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Re: Research in 3.0

Post by Olfrygt » Sat, 27. Apr 19, 16:48

11. Balance the teleport, nerf it's range down to a max of 1 star system or sector. The universe is already too small. And if the player can simply jump from system to system it does not feel better.

Sanshy
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Re: Research in 3.0

Post by Sanshy » Sat, 27. Apr 19, 23:20

- And remove the damn highway...

- Give S and M ships a max range from a base or a bigger ship before it need to refuel.
This will give sense of bigger ships in this game...

BlackRain
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Re: Research in 3.0

Post by BlackRain » Sat, 27. Apr 19, 23:56

Sanshy wrote:
Sat, 27. Apr 19, 23:20
- And remove the damn highway...

- Give S and M ships a max range from a base or a bigger ship before it need to refuel.
This will give sense of bigger ships in this game...
This thread was about research, you bring in something completely unrelated.

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MakerLinux
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Re: Research in 3.0

Post by MakerLinux » Sun, 28. Apr 19, 01:11

BlackRain wrote:
Sat, 27. Apr 19, 23:56
Sanshy wrote:
Sat, 27. Apr 19, 23:20
- And remove the damn highway...

- Give S and M ships a max range from a base or a bigger ship before it need to refuel.
This will give sense of bigger ships in this game...
This thread was about research, you bring in something completely unrelated.
Anyways, PLEASE don't remove the highways. They are a wonderful and rich mechanic to those who know how to use it. :P They add life and color to the environment too.

To get back to the topic, I liked the idea of an infinite progression tree, with incremental level ups. However, it would not be valid for the current technology tree where we get a limited set of blueprint types and teleport distances. For those, what about changing the research to a finer scale? You have to research *every* module you want to be able to EMP, and you would have one level of research for every sector you want to reach via teleport (not sure if that would be a good mechanic tho).
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Shagrath912
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Re: Research in 3.0

Post by Shagrath912 » Sun, 28. Apr 19, 13:06

You could embedd the "progression tree" into a background story and trigger missions to enhance the "Research process" even more. I had a quick Idea how this could look alike. Unfortunatley the Text is in German in the German Mission Feedback Thread. So if someone would be interested feel free to have a look (maybe using deepL :-)): viewtopic.php?f=147&t=410495&p=4833527#p4833527

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Jabberwok
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Re: Research in 3.0

Post by Jabberwok » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:27

Researching should require resources for example computer chips,
Something like this would work

Research 1:
150,000 Teladianium
450,000 Ore

Research 2:
500 Nividium
250,000 Crystals


Research 3:
15 million Credits
400,000 Silicon wafers
75,000 Microchips

Or something...

RainerPrem
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Re: Research in 3.0

Post by RainerPrem » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:57

Jabberwok wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:27
Researching should require resources for example computer chips,
Something like this would work

Research 1:
150,000 Teladianium
450,000 Ore

Research 2:
500 Nividium
250,000 Crystals


Research 3:
15 million Credits
400,000 Silicon wafers
75,000 Microchips

Or something...
Doesn't that ring a bell? ;-) I'm just at the 150.000 Teladianium stage in my current game - long way to go, and much fun ahead without constantly killing Xenon...

PS: It starts with 500 mc as "Research 0"

Tomonor
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Re: Research in 3.0

Post by Tomonor » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 11:03

Jabberwok wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:27
Researching should require resources for example computer chips,
Something like this would work

Research 1:
150,000 Teladianium
450,000 Ore

Research 2:
500 Nividium
250,000 Crystals


Research 3:
15 million Credits
400,000 Silicon wafers
75,000 Microchips

Or something...
Oh god, the flashbacks are coming...
Image

Falcrack
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Re: Research in 3.0

Post by Falcrack » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 15:13

repatomonor wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 19, 11:03
Jabberwok wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 19, 10:27
Researching should require resources for example computer chips,
Something like this would work

Research 1:
150,000 Teladianium
450,000 Ore

Research 2:
500 Nividium
250,000 Crystals


Research 3:
15 million Credits
400,000 Silicon wafers
75,000 Microchips

Or something...
Oh god, the flashbacks are coming...
I remember that nightmare getting all those microchips for that annoying Boron scientist in TC. Then in AP, I remember going to the hub and there were microchips just floating around there in space all over, and the current scientist wondering out loud what on earth they needed all those microchips for. Made me laugh!

fcth
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Re: Research in 3.0

Post by fcth » Tue, 30. Apr 19, 17:47

Falcrack wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 19, 15:13
I remember that nightmare getting all those microchips for that annoying Boron scientist in TC. Then in AP, I remember going to the hub and there were microchips just floating around there in space all over, and the current scientist wondering out loud what on earth they needed all those microchips for. Made me laugh!
Yep, that was good. Reminded me Fallout where you spend most of the first game looking for a water chip for your vault, and then in Fallout 2 you find a vault with hundreds.

In any event, the hub mission were fine, just spin up some complexes making the whatever it needed, give them some freighters, give the hub some money, and tell it to buy at an above average price. Very little hassle. Killing all those Xenon ships to end the war on the other hand...

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