Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

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Fenris321
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Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by Fenris321 » Sun, 21. Apr 19, 16:45

So I'm getting to the point in the game money wise where I want to start up my own shipyard. I'm thinking of starting off with a wharf first, oddly I have more trouble making small and medium ships than I do large and XL. I'm wondering if I should try to make it as self reliant as possible or just buy all the parts I need for the fabrication and maintenance bays. If I make it self reliant, it looks like it would need every raw resource (according to the station calculator I'm using), which would make sector placement very important.

Initially the build will not be for making money, but for building ships whenever I want with no wait time while I have station traders fill up the required parts in other shipyards and wharves (in my game NPCs don't like to deliver engine parts to stations). Then watching other ships get jumped in front of mine. That said, after awhile it would be nice to make some money off of them.

If I just build the fabrication and maintenance bays then buy all the wares needed to build ships will I still be able to make a profit? Do the prices of the sold ships take into account the prices of the wares put into them?

With making it self reliant it looks like it would take dozens of different types of modules, I'm not even sure that would fit in one plot. If anyone has done this, would it just be better to make several smaller stations to feed parts into the shipyard?

Basically, any hints or tips on building a shipyard would be appreciated.


Other questions: (since I seem to have trouble finding current patch notes)
1) Are there any plans on making wings easier to use. As in adding ships to wings, having multiple wings on one ship, hot key commands for wings instead of having to go into map mode, etc.
2) I thought I read about carriers being able to resupply ships, is that in 2.5 or did I just imagine it? Also, does this include being able to repair docked ships if it does exist?
3) I know this will be out of game and not part of Egosoft, but is there a resource map somewhere? These resource probes seem to be next to worthless and personally scouting every square inch of a sector looking for one to meet the needs of whatever station I want to build is kinda a pain.
4) Also can I rotate a station after it is built? I tried on one and half the modules turned red so I backed out so I wouldn't break something.

Fame
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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by Fame » Sun, 21. Apr 19, 18:01

With making it self reliant it looks like it would take dozens of different types of modules, I'm not even sure that would fit in one plot. If anyone has done this, would it just be better to make several smaller stations to feed parts into the shipyard?
It fits :D
Currently im building a "new shipyard" with over 100 production modules .... not sure if i picked 9km or 10km though i guess its 10km in all directions.

Relying on freigthers to move stuff around is tediuos if you go manual route but it can be done when $$$ is tight.

Close loop is what i prefer personaly since it will keep space jams under control to a certain extent.... i have a couple of those "space jams" myself :(
3) I know this will be out of game and not part of Egosoft, but is there a resource map somewhere? These resource probes seem to be next to worthless and personally scouting every square inch of a sector looking for one to meet the needs of whatever station I want to build is kinda a pain.
Check your own Universe map ...since there seems to be diferences in each Universe generated.
4) Also can I rotate a station after it is built? I tried on one and half the modules turned red so I backed out so I wouldn't break something.
Short answer ... Yes but this means you will rebuild it what you have moved around.

Fame
Its a problem if you don´t have any problems.

graphicboy
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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by graphicboy » Sun, 21. Apr 19, 18:26

Fenris321 wrote:
Sun, 21. Apr 19, 16:45
I can't speak to your non-self sustained profitability questions. I've only built a "super" shipyard, with 3 L fabrication, 1 XL fabrication, 1 S/M fabrication, and 5 of every production. It's a bit of a PITA navigating the station editor doing it - you'll probably need to restart more than once before you do it in an order that won't drive you mad. Basically:
- 5x all production modules I have at the bottom of a 10^6 plot,
- solar panels a bit above that,
- 16 of each L storage above that,
- regular docks (~8 luxury, and 8 total piers) above that (center/center),
- many L apartments above that,
- and fabrication at the very top.

There is a lot more room in a 10^6 plot than you think.

The trouble with building many different stations is the amount of material you'll need to move between the stations. It's very inefficient. That being said, it takes many ships to operate a station like I'm describing.

For your other questions:
- Wings are still pretty rough, but they've improved how they behave when near enemies you didn't ask them to attack. The rest, not yet as far as I can tell.
- 2.5, Nomad, haven't messed with it yet
- Why bother, just tell mineral/gas ships to mine for a station. They'll find it.
- Rotate=destroy. Don't ask why. IMO if you rotate or even move stuff, it should just no-op it and make it happen.

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Fenris321
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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by Fenris321 » Mon, 22. Apr 19, 02:22

Sweet! Thanks for all the info guys. So far here's the "rough draft" of what I'm thinking about: http://www.x4-game.com/#/station-calcul ... 03,count:8 Hopefully it's close to what I need. After looking at the blueprint prices for the L and XL fabrication and maintenance bays I'll have some time to think about it while saving up some more credits :D

The only reason I was thinking about finding a sector with decent resources was to shorten the trips the miners would have to take. I guess with enough miners that wont really matter though.

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Mon, 22. Apr 19, 14:27

I have a ship yard template design with 6 XL, 6 L, and 6 S/M Fabrication docks and have built a few instances of stations based on this template.

The key to a successful shipyard seems to be LOTS of Container storage with local production chains for items that are in short supply.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

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Nort The Fragrent
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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by Nort The Fragrent » Mon, 22. Apr 19, 18:01

Yes! Make sure you put lots of Container storage in the build. Don't do production modules, just ship modules. Put more storage in, repeat.
And put millions in the station account, so it fills up quickly. If you want it just for you, change the ship price and the other race option so you don't build for others.
One of my shipyards is now open for business and is pouring money in.
They take a while to get going.
:roll:

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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by Général Grievous » Tue, 23. Apr 19, 08:55

I agree. There is no need to built a hyper mega shipyard with production modules on it.
The key seems to be container storage.

I don't have a big shipyard. I have all production modules as well as "warf" modules. One each. But i have multiple production stations. Each station have at least 4 production modules. And each station is producing a dedicated ware for the shipyard. It works very well.
And i don't have any large docking area on any of my producing stations. Just S/M ones. :)
Il vaut mieux mobiliser son intelligence sur des conneries plutot que de mobiliser sa connerie sur des choses intelligentes...

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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by Imperial Good » Tue, 23. Apr 19, 09:13

Building large ship production complexes is not very time efficient. Sure having a factory that takes in solids and liquids and produces ships is cool in theory, but rather split up the process into many smaller factories which can be developed in parallel. This way you can become self sufficient faster.

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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by Karmaticdamage » Tue, 23. Apr 19, 19:04

I usually have most of the important resources covered by the time I put up a wharf/shipyard. You only really need to make your own supply of engine parts, hull parts, weapon components, advanced electronics, and smart chips. The other stuff needed to make ships are abundant in the game world. You want to get your wharf up as soon as possible, don't wait until you have an entire support system setup for them. Once you get your first wharf up the game changes dramatically, the amount of money coming in increases by a huge margin. One wharf will make several times the credits of the entire support structure you build to supply them. Set price of wharf/shipyard to 150%, empires will buy from you anyway. Once you have that income then you can go on to make crazy things like giant complexes.
Last edited by Karmaticdamage on Wed, 24. Apr 19, 01:32, edited 1 time in total.

pref
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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by pref » Tue, 23. Apr 19, 23:37

I would separate the shipyard from the production complex.

As soon as you add a wharf/dock you will not be able to sell the endproducts any more, and also the storage ratios are changed which can be inconvenient if it does not match your output.

Keep them in the same sector, assign some L ATs for hauling the resources, and add plenty storage for both.

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Wed, 24. Apr 19, 01:07

pref wrote:
Tue, 23. Apr 19, 23:37
I would separate the shipyard from the production complex.

As soon as you add a wharf/dock you will not be able to sell the endproducts any more
False - based on personal in-game experience, of-course that is on the assumption that the end-products are not consumed before you get to sell them. ;)

Separate or integrated is pretty moot - the best solution is dependent on what you are trying to achieve.

The ONLY issue I have had with my shipyards is in-sector/on-station frame rates due to the size and complexity of the designs - my designs do typically include ALOT of turrets and defence platforms so that could be the main crippling factor.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

pref
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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by pref » Wed, 24. Apr 19, 03:25

Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Wed, 24. Apr 19, 01:07
False - based on personal in-game experience, of-course that is on the assumption that the end-products are not consumed before you get to sell them. ;)

Separate or integrated is pretty moot - the best solution is dependent on what you are trying to achieve.
Perhaps above 80% or so stock level you will see sell offers posted, which means your wares are effectively locked from use unless you ware transfer.
At 75% i got no offers, which means 30k whatever components out of 40k were sitting in my storage useless. Have not played long enough since 2.0 to see if at 100% i get any offers, but it does not matter much since optimally storage will not hit 75+% for wares that are in demand.
And claytronics storage dropped to 20% of the previous level or so after adding the wharf to my complex.

I'd say your argument is fundamentally flawed and moot at the same time.

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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by ZaphodBeeblebrox » Wed, 24. Apr 19, 13:15

I personally have a build going for an L and XL shipyard. Does anybody else think it would be nice if we could use multiple builders to speed the process up?
Now I just have to leave the game running on its own, then check it every hour or so to see what progress is being made. Don't use SETA and don't intend to.
It was a woman who drove me to drink... you know I never went back and thanked her.

Don't try to outweird me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal.

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Re: Tell me about your shipyard and a few other random questions.

Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths » Thu, 25. Apr 19, 01:28

pref wrote:
Wed, 24. Apr 19, 03:25
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Wed, 24. Apr 19, 01:07
False - based on personal in-game experience, of-course that is on the assumption that the end-products are not consumed before you get to sell them. ;)

Separate or integrated is pretty moot - the best solution is dependent on what you are trying to achieve.
Perhaps above 80% or so stock level you will see sell offers posted, which means your wares are effectively locked from use unless you ware transfer.
At 75% i got no offers, which means 30k whatever components out of 40k were sitting in my storage useless. Have not played long enough since 2.0 to see if at 100% i get any offers, but it does not matter much since optimally storage will not hit 75+% for wares that are in demand.
And claytronics storage dropped to 20% of the previous level or so after adding the wharf to my complex.

I'd say your argument is fundamentally flawed and moot at the same time.
Not really, your argument is the one that is essentially flawed and moot though - I have numerous stations with integrated supply chains, I control the ware prices manually - Sell (0.666*max+0.334*min), Buy (0.667*min+0.333*max) and do not have any issues with MORT offers being available unless there are ship orders pending consuming them - whether the AI trades in those wares is a separate and irrelevant issue given the matter at hand. Overall, the ONLY true reason to integrate supply chains into a shipyard is to guarantee materials are available to support ship production - if you want to deliberately and freely trade in wares you do keep them separate BUT that does not guarantee the relevant shipyard will be supplied with the necessary wares - only integrating the production chain will do that.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

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