Radial menu?

[Axeface]

X Rebirth has a radial menu:-



These types of menus are excellent for in-combat stuff. Things the player needs to get to quickly and convieniently, or in combat. Things like scanning, turret modes or orders for the players wing could be nested in a Hold-down hotkey (hold to open, let go to close/activate). Rebirth used it for (much missed) drones, like shield drones.
You could have multiple radial menus for different things. One for orders for your 'squad/wing', one for turret modes, etc.

Why isnt it in X4? Its so strange... the popup context menu is awful, by the way. Fighting with it to scan a ship or just get information is so tiresome.


Suggestion of the top of my head:-
Remove 1-4 weapon group hotkey, add hold-down radials that lock the mouse to the circle.
Remove right/left click context menu as its no longer needed.

Button 1 - Target subjective options. Information, scan, board, comm, external view, dock at etc.
Button 2 - Turret modes (top) and weapon groups (bottom).
Button 3 - Ship modes (Travel, scanning, long range scan, seta, autopilot, player get up)
Button 4 - Wing orders (attack my target, attack all targets in range, follow me, protect me, retreat, resume previous orders etc).

Ideas for what it might look like:-
Animated GIF




OR OR OR OR (random icons to just get the point across)

[radcapricorn]

+100500. It also suits both kb/mouse and controllers. Fewer buttons + a gesture. Less is more.

But, I still insist that short range scan should be the same damn hotkey as long range one. I mean, come on!

[Axeface]

+100500. It also suits both kb/mouse and controllers. Fewer buttons + a gesture. Less is more.

But, I still insist that short range scan should be the same damn hotkey as long range one. I mean, come on!

You mean long range scan and normal scan being the same mode? Sure, why not? There are loads of things that are just not finished or polished. So many things that i'de call 'quality of life' issues that just make this game so hard to enjoy.
Something as simple as the hotkey that brings up the context menu not also closing it too..... these are basic UI things. I have it mapped to F, so I press F and it comes up, but if i press F again it doesnt close. Its infuriating. Most of the X games have had these issues, but they really need to start ironing them out.
At least they got M to open AND close the map.

Oh, for the record, the radial menu in X Rebirth doesnt lock your mouse to the menu, if its added to X4 it needs to do this. If im holding the button to bring up the menu I shouldnt have to find my mouse cursor, thats the whole damn point of radial menues.

[adeine]

While something like this would be nice, it absolutely needs to be moddable in terms of custom entries/contextual options.

Advanced keyboard shortcuts a la X3, complete with mod bindings, are perhaps even more important though.

[Axeface]

While something like this would be nice, it absolutely needs to be moddable in terms of custom entries/contextual options.

Advanced keyboard shortcuts a la X3, complete with mod bindings, are perhaps even more important though.

Moddability is always nice, and yeh more hotkeys are needed (scan has been requested frequently since release). Added another design idea to the previous post.

[radcapricorn]

You mean long range scan and normal scan being the same mode? Sure, why not?

Yes, exactly. The whole "long range scan mode", as it is right now in the game, does not need to exist at all. One scan mode is enough. Without a target, button initiates ping. With a target, same button performs scan of that target.

There is much gain in improving game's input system in general. For example, bringing back long press events. With them in place, existing shortcuts wouldn't even need to go. 1-4 keys could still function as weapon groups, while holding them could open a menu (or, for people so inclined, this could be flipped so that taps open menus and long presses switch groups). More functions per button, snappier UI.

Just imagining a simple interaction I routinely go through. Approaching a friendly station, I always disable turrets, so that I don't accidentally start a war. Right now it requires to temporarily give up control. I have to open menu, move mouse pointer, click, move, click again. With a radial menu, it could be as easy as hold a button + swipe (or hold a button, move, click). Much faster, much easier.

[adeine]

While something like this would be nice, it absolutely needs to be moddable in terms of custom entries/contextual options.

Advanced keyboard shortcuts a la X3, complete with mod bindings, are perhaps even more important though.

Moddability is always nice, and yeh more hotkeys are needed (scan has been requested frequently since release). Added another design idea to the previous post.

Not just nice, but absolutely vital if you look at any of X3's more advanced mods. They just wouldn't be possible without hooking in custom hotkeys.

[XTC0R]

Spoiler

Show

X Rebirth has a radial menu:-



These types of menus are excellent for in-combat stuff. Things the player needs to get to quickly and convieniently, or in combat. Things like scanning, turret modes or orders for the players wing could be nested in a Hold-down hotkey (hold to open, let go to close/activate). Rebirth used it for (much missed) drones, like shield drones.
You could have multiple radial menus for different things. One for orders for your 'squad/wing', one for turret modes, etc.

Why isnt it in X4? Its so strange... the popup context menu is awful, by the way. Fighting with it to scan a ship or just get information is so tiresome.


Suggestion of the top of my head:-
Remove 1-4 weapon group hotkey, add hold-down radials that lock the mouse to the circle.
Remove right/left click context menu as its no longer needed.

Button 1 - Target subjective options. Information, scan, board, comm, external view, dock at etc.
Button 2 - Turret modes (top) and weapon groups (bottom).
Button 3 - Ship modes (Travel, scanning, long range scan, seta, autopilot, player get up)
Button 4 - Wing orders (attack my target, attack all targets in range, follow me, protect me, retreat, resume previous orders etc).

Ideas for what it might look like:-
OR OR OR (random icons to just get the point across)

I really like the idea. I never played X:R but know this radial menus from other games. Is it possible to cycle through the menu items via mouse wheel in X:R? This is a must have functionality imho.

[radcapricorn]

Is it possible to cycle through the menu items via mouse wheel in X:R? This is a must have functionality imho.

Nah, ideally radial menus don't work like that. It's just press (or hold) button and swipe into item you need. Mouse position should then be restored to whatever it was prior to swipe, i.e. it's transparent to the UI. Good radial menus are literally unnoticeable, it's just one quick fluid action (i.e. your muscle memory trains very quickly, you don't even have to think where each item is after you used it a few times).
In X:R IIRC it was button + mouse + click on item. I.e. not ideal, but not that bad either.

[Killjaeden]

XR used radial menus for way too much (even nesting radial menu) and this is terrible.
https://imgur.com/KKU7uv3 those are way to many options in one radial menu.
Radial menu für quick access of single-action options with very limited number (not more than 6) is good . For anything multi-stage and beyond 10 options it is simply terrible. Also, not easily expandable with more options.

[Axeface]

XR used radial menus for way too much (even nesting radial menu) and this is terrible.
https://imgur.com/KKU7uv3 those are way to many options in one radial menu.
Radial menu für quick access of single-action options with very limited number (not more than 6) is good . For anything multi-stage and beyond 10 options it is simply terrible. Also, not easily expandable with more options.

Yeh agreed that theres too much on that example, I was just experimenting with that image really. Later changed the suggestion to the list i put in the OP.
Button 1 - Target subjective options. Information, scan, board, comm, external view, dock at etc.
Button 2 - Turret modes (top) and weapon groups (bottom).
Button 3 - Ship modes (Travel, scanning, long range scan, seta, autopilot, player get up)
Button 4 - Wing orders (attack my target, attack all targets in range, follow me, protect me, retreat, resume previous orders etc).

I'll probably brainstorm some more at some point and see if i can streamline it.

Oh, and the radial menu that Rebirth used for comms etc was not well made, the one for drones was better but still needed work - and neither treated the mouse like a stick, so we just pressed number keys. Was also really hard to see sometimes.

[Axeface]

Ive been trying to remember which game has a radial menu that works well. There are many games that have them but most just make you click the entries (which makes them as worthless as any other popup menu). I think the Battlefield games have one that works in the way im describing - I havent played it in years. All I know is that they (when done properly) are incredibly intuitive, become second nature, and you can nestle a lot of options into them - especially if you have multiple radials with hotkeys like I described.

[rmpow]

Radial menu's only work if you have a gamepad.

They are a nightmare to work with keyboard/joystick, which I would imagine is how most people play space games on a PC.

[radcapricorn]

Radial menu's only work if you have a gamepad.
They are a nightmare to work with keyboard/joystick, which I would imagine is how most people play space games on a PC.

Err, no they aren't.

[Axeface]

Radial menu's only work if you have a gamepad.

They are a nightmare to work with keyboard/joystick, which I would imagine is how most people play space games on a PC.

Have you ever played Mass Effect? Its conversation wheel is an example of one thats implimented well that I had forgotten about. I think they are excellent for keyboard and mouse aswell as controllers (again, IF they are done well and IF they read mouse input properly).

Messing around a bit more trying to make one that fits the games current popup-box colour scheme (might go crazy and make a video ;p)
Animated Gif (click)

Image