Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

[Skeeter]

Hey all.

Just wondering why i keep seeing topics about war this war that when the x games arnt about it really its suppose to be a open ended space adventure with some trading some combat some plot some station building if u want. Its not a war game or a rts game. I know some build up fleets but i dont see the point personally as waste of money and time as personally if i want space battles id play homeworld where it would be far far more enjoyable.

Now since with all the topics even egosoft are trying to put wars in because of this which i dont think they should have tbh but thats just me.

I know i wont be popular with this topic but i just dont know why the x games should have it as it will change the whole game if theres actual wars in, i wont be able to just play it safe like i usually do in x games if i have to worry about a big angry fleet crossing a system im in or have stuff in a system that i have made there. Yeah there was a chance some ship might get attacked in past x games but generally if u built in safe home systems u usually would be ok. But if we start making x games a rts as in active fleets and fighting anywhere then its gona mess up the x games i know and wont be x anymore. Not everyone wants a high threat chance when playing x games.

Now i wouldnt be apposed to say a scripted mission where u needed a fleet to combat another fleet in a designated area as thats more controlable as 1 u could accept or decline or ignore the mission and 2 u can read about what u need vs what u fight against and where it is so u can prepare. But this isnt it what the forum folk (some) are pushing for.

Cant blame the forum folk too much tho as egosoft themselves are all over the place with the last few games which where their direction is for x games and what they actually are suppose to be. xbtf - x3 had a plot, no war but a annoying enemy sometimes, gameplay was casual. Then rebirth which had a plot but was pretty bad overall in gameplay not just bugs but features lacked alot and added ones were meh imo like 1 crap ship with 1 stupid name, 1 companion instead of multiple ones u could hire say like in kotor u could have 8 different ones with their own story, now if rebirth had that i think id enjoy the heck out of that then but nope. X4 just seems like u sit in the map mainly and u dont struggle with earning money like u did in xbtf and the game is tailored to war scripts which i dont think have been fully finished iirc.

I sometimes wish i could play x3 but i just couldnt cos of the no cockpits (i know theres mods but no) then theres all them silly icons around the screen and then silly docking arms instead of xbtf or x2 docking which i liked better as felt more immersive and other things. I even have 2 copies a hard copy and a digital copy but i only played up to so much like a hour or 2 did a few missions i believe and stopped as i couldnt get on without sitting in a cockpit.

Never played terran conflict or AP exp packs btw tho i have them on steam. I think this is probably where the whole active war thing and territory had started from from what i hear about what happens in em but not sure 100%.

[Vertigo 7]

War adds a different challenge beyond just space pew pew. You can engage in an economical war, play purely on trade and exceed one factions ability to produce goods and ultimately, ability to wage war. Or, you can opt out of direct participation and play both sides against the middle. It's more about the different factions interacting with each other than anything else.

While the bugs and machines do represent a common enemy to all, can't really expect everyone in space to get along. It's not exactly like the human race is a shining example of how to live in harmony with one another =p

[Novia Star]

This ultimately seems to be a question about life and then the "goal" of a video game.

Should you make war? Why make war? Is there ever a win?

Then ya should ask, does the AI need a response = to the level of your aggression? Does the combat AI need to be given major buffs and rework to act more like a aggressive human might? Are we trying to make X4 more like EVE online? Or is this Farmvill in space?

Ultimately its kinda down to how you want "your" personal game experience to develop. If you want to build a pool have your sims swim in it and remove the ladder thats on you. But Devs could say Sims can just climb out of any edge of the pool. You could Destroy every station in the game and make the universe a barren waste land. or clog the CPU of your computer with millions of Discovers flying all over the place moving single energy cells.

[Rei Ayanami]

Some reasons to have war in the game
1) It's canon. If i remember correctly story-wise Borons and Paranids have a very shaky relationship. And Split have story-wise always been rather erratic, aggrssive and unpredictable when it comes to whom they fight.
2) It already happened in earlier X titles. When i played earlier X titles (X-Tension for example) Borons and Paranids always shot at eachother on sight.
3) It's a great way to introduce realistic ressource sinks instead of the old "weapons and shields from equipment docks and shipyards are mysteriously consumed over time, even if no ships dock there or no ships get produced".
4) Conflicts over territory and ressources is a thing that happens naturally in almost all species in existence, and that's not counting other aspects such as greed or ideological motivation.
5) It adds an action aspect to the game to those players who find the normal skirmishes against 1~3 fighters too easy.

That being said, of course allied/friendly factions should not attack eachother for no reason just for the sake of starting a war, that's silly and immersion-breaking. And of course the trading and building parts should always be at least as much relevant as the combat aspect.

Cant blame the forum folk too much tho as egosoft themselves are all over the place with the last few games which where their direction is for x games and what they actually are suppose to be. xbtf - x3 had a plot, no war but a annoying enemy sometimes,

Technically there was a war against the Xenon and Khaak in X-BTF ~ X2, but it was rather a "faked war" with enemy respawn points instead of building almost every ship via ressources in a shipyard (khaak in X2 spawned spontaneously in sector corners, in X-btf Xenon squads seemingly spawned at gate entrances by a random chance when the player flew through a gate, etc). X-Tension had a "war" aspect in the sense that ships (except pirates) got respawned at shipyards and they flew back to the sector where they got destroyed in, aswell as you being able to destroy any station permanently (unsure about this one, but i think i'm correct), so technically you could take over sectors and then do a full-scale blockade to prevent any of those ships from returning to their sectors, but there was no dynamic territories.

[mr.WHO]

War means more dynamic unverse.
War means more options, opportunities and challenges.

All above are great for sandbox games.

War is imperative.

[MegaJohnny]

I think it's an inevitable want for the X series. The whole series is pretty much based around you being able to scale up indefinitely, and after people get their giant microchip complexes, they wish there was something big and scary to throw all their destroyers at.

[mr.WHO]

I think it's an inevitable want for the X series. The whole series is pretty much based around you being able to scale up indefinitely, and after people get their giant microchip complexes, they wish there was something big and scary to throw all their destroyers at.

This one.
One and only one time my hearth skip a beat when I was sandwitched by two Xenon fleets in Hatikvah's Choice - one fleet from Xenon gate in the north was one Xenon I, several Ks and some fighters and Ps.
Second fleet poped out of nowhere at gate to Argon Prime(dunnot how they appeared there withotu anyone notice, they for sure didn't came from Argon Prime) was Xenon I and several Ks...but without any fighter screen.

Other than this single situation I had no challenge un my universe.

[Brachra]

build FIGHT trade think?....why does everyone act like war isnt a part of X games? the motto isnt TRADING & ECONOMY SIMULATOR.

Edit: While i do realize a huge portion of the game is trading, owning stations and building your empire and amassing insane amount of credits
it kind of makes no sense to allow me to have giant fleets of capital ships if theres nothing real to do with them.

Also, I mean cmon theres Xenon, Pirates own whole sectors (SCA) not all of the factions are allied with eachother. look at ARG and HOP... theres apparently a "War" going on between the two of them but yet after 200+ Hours in my save they are still peacefully existing next to eachother. war would be nice.

Also the description for Ablion Prelude as an example touts WAR! repeatedly as a selling point of the game. So yes. War is a big deal in the X universe.

[graphicboy]

Because unlike X3, where it took time and effort to become strong, never mind "invincible" - in X4 there is zero danger. None. Zilch. Nada. Build your empire, kill everything, get bored, write mods, quit. Even the (irritating as hell) Marauders are only that .. irritating. Just make them red to the player, rather than random. Look at the bugs that feature created.

"But I want an easy game!"

Fine. Add a slider in the New Game sequence that lets you control just how big of an !@#^$#&* the AI is going to be.

[Brachra]

Because unlike X3, where it took time and effort to become strong, never mind "invincible" - in X4 there is zero danger. None. Zilch. Nada. Build your empire, kill everything, get bored, write mods, quit. Even the (irritating as hell) Marauders are only that .. irritating. Just make them red to the player, rather than random. Look at the bugs that feature created.

"But I want an easy game!"

Fine. Add a slider in the New Game sequence that lets you control just how big of an !@#^$#&* the AI is going to be.

This!!
I Love X4 but i get bored of "Carebear economy simulator" and Not only is there no Conflict or War based challenge in the game. the Economy also doesnt challenge me. After a while you just kind of become a credit printing machine and can purchase anything you want. Im sure by now im worth more than the argon. I Have no upkeep costs, all of my stations are self sufficient and i owe my hundreds and hundreds of employees absolutely NOTHING!
i own sooooooo many ships. there's nothing to do with them. nobody puts up a real fight. i could probably (not sure if its even possible) remove every faction from my game in a few short hours and have almost no opposition.

Even if they dont want to make the big factions have good/bad relations AT LEAST make the ones that have "War effort" Lines do things. Hell even the xenon. what kind of calculating invasion force is that anyway? Oh lets just hang out in our own sectors guys. maybe send out a single fighter or something to attack a few capital ships and watch it explode..oh well lets go home.

[Tanvaras]

"WAR! - Politics by other means!"

Why? Because it's in our nature to wage it!

[Raevyan]

A game with an economy that is based of war you simply can't have peace. It just don't work. War is very much needed to not grind the economy to a complete halt because no resources/wares are ever consumed.

[Brachra]

A game with an economy that is based of war you simply can't have peace. It just don't work. War is very much needed to not grind the economy to a complete halt because no resources/wares are ever consumed.

See i agree with you but disagree that you cant have peace(sometimes)

There are in my opinion enough races & Factions that even if 60% of them had peace. depending on current AI decisions like cease-fires and maybe alliances. that the economy would still move in a positive direction. but we need SOMETHING. because at this point everyone is at peace all of the time and it just isn't working out

[Nort The Fragrent]

Good That someone else questions the war side of the game, I think the game is weighted too much on the conflict front.
Ok to have a war zone for those who wish to fight, but to have fighting everywhere is rather stupid and unrealistic. And for me spoils the game.
This big gun killing education from gaming is fuelling those real life death idiots who gun down real people. This we need to stop.
I think the game needs to show the devastating consequences of going into battle, the player needs to lose more and come out the other side wondering why they went into war in the first place. As war is immensely costly.
Letting a player kill and only come out with a scratch, is not how it is in reality.

I fly my personal ships with no guns at all, I have not fired a single shot. And I have no intention of doing so. I play a very quiet game, building, exploring, trading. That is all I need from the game.

Fighting is for fools, idiots, and the deranged.

What category do you come under?

[Brachra]

Good That someone else questions the war side of the game, I think the game is weighted too much on the conflict front.
Ok to have a war zone for those who wish to fight, but to have fighting everywhere is rather stupid and unrealistic. And for me spoils the game.
This big gun killing education from gaming is fuelling those real life death idiots who gun down real people. This we need to stop.
I think the game needs to show the devastating consequences of going into battle, the player needs to lose more and come out the other side wondering why they went into war in the first place. As war is immensely costly.
Letting a player kill and only come out with a scratch, is not how it is in reality.

I fly my personal ships with no guns at all, I have not fired a single shot. And I have no intention of doing so. I play a very quiet game, building, exploring, trading. That is all I need from the game.

Fighting is for fools, idiots, and the deranged.

What category do you come under?

People who believe that video games cause someone to gun down real people....this we need to stop.

I can buy into the whole product of your environment thing to an extent. But if video games caused someone to gun REAL people down we would have constant mass shootings on a scale unseen by anyone to this date. Dont go there. Dont bring your politics into this. we don't need to turn this into a political argument.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

War means more dynamic unverse.

Not a requirement

War means more options, opportunities and challenges.

Not necessarily - it offers a certain type of gameplay but not everyone wants that.

All above are great for sandbox games.

Totally disagree

War is imperative.

Again - disagree; However, as a gameplay "option" it is fair and reasonable. The key point is it should not be the primary focus of games such as X.

[mr.WHO]

OK you disagree, 4 times. Now add something useful to the discussion.

[Nort The Fragrent]

Politics has nothing to do with it, The evidence is quite real. There are young Car drivers who drive like they are in their game they have known since a young boy. Yet in reality crashing a real car has significant consequences. This same mental indoctrination can be seen through many game related attitudes amongst the young.
Young are swayed, and think killing is ok, and normal. So why weight a game to fuel that side of their thinking.
We need to be responsible. Not bullish gunghow, shoot at everything as entertainment.
X4 is a very good game, and need not be so violent,

Is this not the reason for a forum, to voice ones opinion on a subject related to the forum.
That being a game that kills things.
The Moto.
Trade, Fight, Build, Think.

Is rather backward.

It ought to be

Think, Trade, Build, ( Then as a last resort ) Fight.

[Nanook]

If you want to debate Real World Issues, please do so in the appropriate Off Topic Forum. Let's keep the discussions in this forum about X4 only. Thanks.

[Brachra]

War means more dynamic unverse.

Not a requirement

War means more options, opportunities and challenges.

Not necessarily - it offers a certain type of gameplay but not everyone wants that.

All above are great for sandbox games.

Totally disagree

War is imperative.

Again - disagree; However, as a gameplay "option" it is fair and reasonable. The key point is it should not be the primary focus of games such as X.

Nobody said anything about PRIMARY focus. but ANY focus at all would be nice. I mean theres actual missions that talk about joining the war effort against xenon, HOP. they should at this point be named minor conflict efforts. or maybe a spat? because theres definitely no war going on.