XRebirth vs X4 Foundations

[Falcrack]

Currently I am enjoying X4 Foundations a hell of a lot more than I ever did of XRebirth. I'm sorry, but I could never agree that XRebirth was a better game than X4. X4's not perfect, but it's already a hell of a lot better than XRebirth ever was.

I managed 86 total hours in X:Rebirth. So far, I have 540 hours in X4, and it is #4 on my most hours played (X3:TC is #3 at 690 hours, X3AP is #5 at 505 hours). I could not for the life of me get myself excited to play Rebirth, though I wanted to like it. So far, I am happy with the way X4 turned out. I would change a few things about X4 if I could, but overall, it is a better experience.

[radcapricorn]

You know, every time I see someone saying how you "needed" to scan stations in Rebirth, I know I can safely dismiss anything else the person might be saying about that game.

[Buzz2005]

Cut......

Didn't read all but mods? Scan the whole station was a must have

[bignick217]

You know, every time I see someone saying how you "needed" to scan stations in Rebirth, I know I can safely dismiss anything else the person might be saying about that game.

Good to know. Posts like these tell me it's wise to return the favor for anything you might say going forward.

Cut......

Didn't read all but mods? Scan the whole station was a must have

I was giving my opinion of the game for how it was released and what it became as made by the developers. Not for what the community potentially could've turned it into. But I'm sure there are some great community mods out there for XRebirth. Hell, I've used some mods for the X3 games. But by the time I got to a point where I would've considered using mods (I like to give games as much of a chance as possible in vanilla form before ever considering using mods), I was so fed up with XRebirth that I just quit and moved on to X4.

[Buzz2005]

big mistakes IMHO, what makes every X game great is mods and people should use them

I consider them integral part of the game

The charm of X games is versatile gameplay and that versatility increases even more with mods

and btw you didn't need to scan stations

[radcapricorn]

In no way Rebirth required you to scan a station, let alone scan it to 100%. You could do it for extra benefits, if you wanted to. Just like in X4. But no, let's write a mini-novel about how it was bad, when it wasn't...

[bignick217]

big mistakes IMHO, what makes every X game great is mods and people should use them

I consider them integral part of the game

The charm of X games is versatile gameplay and that versatility increases even more with mods

Well, when I'm giving an opinion of a game, I'm giving my opinion of the game. Not what the mods turn it into. If I were to give an opinion of Sins of a Solar empire, I wouldn't give my opinion by describing elements of Star Trek Armada III. That's a mod. If I want to give an opinion about a mod, I will talk about a mod. The way I see it, a mod should compliment and improve gameplay, but it shouldn't be used to fix gameplay in order to give a game a higher score. That's not the way it works. XRebirth as it stood was not a good game. If mods made the game much better that's great and I applaud the community for their hard work and contributions. But it's not realistic nor acceptable to tell someone that it's their fault the game was crap because they didn't use mods made by the community to fix the mess made by the developers. That's a ridiculous assertion in my opinion. Again, I love mods and the community that makes them, but they're not an excuse that can be used to absolve a bad game.

and btw you didn't need to scan stations

Well I did try to get a trading agent without scanning the station and it wouldn't let me. So if there was another way, I never found it and the game never told me of any other option. Not that the game ever told me about trade agents to begin with. I had to find that one out on the community websites. Again, this just goes back to my point about just how bad the communication is between the game and the player.

In no way Rebirth required you to scan a station, let alone scan it to 100%. You could do it for extra benefits, if you wanted to. Just like in X4. But no, let's write a mini-novel about how it was bad, when it wasn't...

1: Don't do that. You don't get to tell me or complain about how much or how little I write. You can choose to read it or not. You can contest a point or not. You can discuss points you either agree with or not. But you don't get to dictate to me about how much I write. So you can keep comments like that to yourself because I'm not interested in your opinions about how I write nor how I choose convey information. As for declaring it's not a bad game. That's you're opinion. My opinion obviously differs.

It's amazing there's so many people repeatedly going "You didn't need to scan stations", yet not one of you has mentioned even one alternative. One alternative to scanning in game that didn't require a mod. It's so good to see people with so much more knowledge than me about a game I sunk 224 hours and 52 minutes in, yet none of you seem to be willing to impart this invaluable information on me.

[Buzz2005]

that mode did improve the game, you didn't have to scan every module, there it's improved

you could land on a station and play that awful minigame with the people until you get one to be a trade agent

but again oh wonderful mods

[Hector0x]

you could land on a station and play that awful minigame with the people until you get one to be a trade agent

And they dropped intellectual lines such as:

"With your chat-up skills we could get really close!"

"I'm glad our chat was so productive. I like you!"

Going down this interacting-with-real-people-direction binds a lot of resources. So much development time could've been saved if they solely focused on improving space environments and just used a 2D drawing style for npc portraits and station interiors like bars, corridors and such.

[radcapricorn]

1: Don't do that. You don't get to tell me or complain about how much or how little I write. You can choose to read it or not. You can contest a point or not. You can discuss points you either agree with or not. But you don't get to dictate to me about how much I write. So you can keep comments like that to yourself because I'm not interested in your opinions about how I write nor how I choose convey information.

I'm not telling you what or what not to write. I'm telling you that your complaint is baseless, no matter how hard you wish it not to be so, or how much you write about it. I.e. you're posting incorrect information, either intentionally or because you misunderstand something. Why is it so difficult?..

As for declaring it's not a bad game. That's you're opinion. My opinion obviously differs.

Ahem. I'm "declaring" that scanning wasn't as bad as you're trying to make it out, because it was entirely optional. Paragraphs. They serve a purpose.

It's amazing there's so many people repeatedly going "You didn't need to scan stations", yet not one of you has mentioned even one alternative. One alternative to scanning in game that didn't require a mod.

What alternative? You did not need to scan stations, period. As in, you were not forced to or required to. It was an entirely optional gameplay element. You didn't need to scan them to put a trade agent in, the silly mini game was enough (or getting one as a reward). If you didn't have a trade agent, you still didn't need to scan them to store all of their current trade offers, flying close with the basic trading computer installed was enough.

It's all absolutely the same in X4 as well. I mean, the only thing different in 4 is that you don't have to get as close to update current trade offers as in Rebirth.

Yes, you did need to scan storage/production modules if you wanted updates on those (heh, just like in X4 again). But unlike X3, you already had all known trade offers listed in trade computer anyway, so the stock information wasn't required for trading either. Thus scanning was entirely optional. If you wanted, you could scan for benefits:
- getting extras (discounts and commissions)
- monitoring stocks and production cycles for... not trading with the station

Neither was required to play the game or trade with stations. So, no, you didn't need to scan stations. At all. And that is why when someone is saying otherwise, it begs to question what else they might be misrepresenting.

It's so good to see people with so much more knowledge than me about a game I sunk 224 hours and 52 minutes in...

Yes, well, I have 426 hours, so I guess mine is longer. As if that means something...

[radcapricorn]

And they dropped intellectual lines such as:
"With your chat-up skills we could get really close!"
"I'm glad our chat was so productive. I like you!"

As if Ren's responses were any different. "Guess what? Nopileos was Teladi!". You don't say, Ren, you don't say... Nice chat. NOT!

Going down this interacting-with-real-people-direction binds a lot of resources...

Yeah, the thing that bothers me ever since, I guess, Bethesda's Oblivion, is that while trying to "create the living breathing world", developers don't pay as much attention to player's perspective. Especially in open-ended games. Skyrim's "arrow in the knee" didn't become a meme because it's a silly line (well ok, maybe a little bit). It became a meme because nearly every single guard was apparently afflicted by that condition, and they all felt compelled to tell you about it. Same goes for chats and the minigames in Rebirth: once is amusing, twice is questionable, a hundred times is (at best) irritating. Rebirth's living breathing universe is apparently inhabited by arrogant, uneducated, racist a$$holes, who stand around all day long doing absolutely nothing, while complaining they have home and family to get back to. And most of them got their "jobs" via affirmative action, because how else could one explain how a ship technician has no idea about how boosters and jumpdrives work?

[bignick217]

1: Don't do that. You don't get to tell me or complain about how much or how little I write. You can choose to read it or not. You can contest a point or not. You can discuss points you either agree with or not. But you don't get to dictate to me about how much I write. So you can keep comments like that to yourself because I'm not interested in your opinions about how I write nor how I choose convey information.

I'm not telling you what or what not to write. I'm telling you that your complaint is baseless, no matter how hard you wish it not to be so, or how much you write about it. I.e. you're posting incorrect information, either intentionally or because you misunderstand something. Why is it so difficult?..

And why is it so difficult for you to talk to me with at least a little bit of F'n respect or decency. Seriously, what the hell can possibly justify the sheer level of hostility you're directing towards me?

As for declaring it's not a bad game. That's you're opinion. My opinion obviously differs.

Ahem. I'm "declaring" that scanning wasn't as bad as you're trying to make it out, because it was entirely optional. Paragraphs. They serve a purpose.

And you again with the BS about my writing. What are you? A grammar Nazi? Is it possible for you to discuss any point of opposition without resorting to insults and jabs?

It's amazing there's so many people repeatedly going "You didn't need to scan stations", yet not one of you has mentioned even one alternative. One alternative to scanning in game that didn't require a mod.

What alternative? You did not need to scan stations, period. As in, you were not forced to or required to. It was an entirely optional gameplay element. You didn't need to scan them to put a trade agent in, the silly mini game was enough (or getting one as a reward). If you didn't have a trade agent, you still didn't need to scan them to store all of their current trade offers, flying close with the basic trading computer installed was enough.

As mentioned in a previous post, this was not my experience. Because I actually tried to hire a trade agent without scanning the station first and it wouldn't let me. The option to hire trade agent was literally greyed out. And yes, I made sure the person I was trying to hire was an inventory seller. If this was not supposed to happen, then I don't know why it wouldn't let me hire the trade agent. All I know is when I tried to hire the agent without scanning the station first, it wouldn't let me and literally greyed out the option. But after I scanned the station, it did. Maybe it was a bug that happened in that instance. Maybe I missed something else, I don't know. But that was my experience. Because believe me, if I had found a way to get to trade offers without having to scan every station, I would've taken it in a heartbeat.

It's all absolutely the same in X4 as well. I mean, the only thing different in 4 is that you don't have to get as close to update current trade offers as in Rebirth.

I'm sorry but no. In X4 I have not been scanning down all stations and I have yet to find a station that won't tell me it's current stock levels without scanning. I can see their stock and relative levels on the map.

Yes, you did need to scan storage/production modules if you wanted updates on those (heh, just like in X4 again). But unlike X3, you already had all known trade offers listed in trade computer anyway, so the stock information wasn't required for trading either. Thus scanning was entirely optional.

^(Bold and Underlined) This, is probably a fair point that I had not considered while playing. But you have to bare in mind how long I've been playing X games. In every previous game, I had always relied on relative stock levels for determining who to sell to because it was far easier to look for low stock levels (which always equated to high sales prices) than it was to memorize the relative high/low prices for every single ware in the game. That was 4 games back to back that all had you rely heavily on stock levels as your guide for who to sell to. We never had a centralized trade offer sheet. So because of those experiences my first gut instinct was to get access to all of the stock levels for every station as a matter of course. I hadn't properly considered nor realized that it was no longer necessary for most trades until now. If I had realized it, I would've focused on only getting the stock levels of critical stations such as the component factories needed for building ships (because shipyards were always running out of supplies). But even if I had realized that, that still doesn't explain why I couldn't actually hire a trade agent without having first scanned down the station. Again, it could've been a bug or something I missed. The point is I don't know. But even with that, I still think XRebirth relied too heavily on scanning. But admittedly, it may not have been as entirely necessary as I originally believed.

It's so good to see people with so much more knowledge than me about a game I sunk 224 hours and 52 minutes in...

Yes, well, I have 426 hours, so I guess mine is longer. As if that means something...

And I suppose the fact that you have more hours than me in game automatically makes any point I make wrong and every point you make right? You do realize that I made a lot more points about a lot more aspects of the game than just scanning right? Oh that's right, you don't because you're the one who said he read up to the part about scanning and then automatically "dismissed" everything else in my post... Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that I wasn't some noob who only played 1 hour and then proceeded to complain without ever having actually tried. That even with that many hours played, at no point did the game ever offer me nor advise me of a better alternative to scanning.


I'm going to make one last attempt to lay everything down on the line. I am perfectly willing to discuss any point I make that you contest, agree or disagree with. I am perfectly willing reconsider and re-assess any view I have on the game in light of new information or considerations I had not previously considered. But I am not willing to interact with you nor anyone else if you are not going to at least talk to me in a respectful manner. The hostility, rudeness and insulting manner in which you have interacted with me consistently thus far is unacceptable and I am not willing to tolerate nor engage with that any further. You want to contest a point I made, by all means let's discuss it. Just be forewarned that we're not going to agree on everything. That part is obvious and that's OK, but we damn well should be able discuss it in a mature and respectful manner. If you can't do that, then don't bother posting anything at all, because I won't be willing to listen anymore at that point.

[Gavrushka]

Never discuss politics, religion or X games with people who hold radically different viewpoints.

I don't want to see this thread locked as I (and I'm sure plenty of others) are enjoying it. In some arguments there's never enough common ground to do other than agree to disagree and walk away.

[spankahontis]

I think your post presupposes X4 is a game that's failed. - I accept there are plenty who feel it has and, in the main, they gave a shrug of their shoulders and left to play something they did enjoy, perhaps revisiting the game after major updates.

Thing is, I *love* the game now. I love standing on the bridge of a huge freighter as it goes on its way. I'll administer my empire, maybe even read a chapter of a book as I play. I found *my way* to enjoy the game, and others have found an alternative way to get a buzz out of it.

And others, such as you, haven't. I hope X5 works for you, but Egosoft are never going to abandon X4 until they've taken it as far as they can. It's what they do, and it's why I stick with them. - They listen, they adapt, they change and they improve. - Of course, that still won't make the game work for everyone.

I hope you drop back on occasion, maybe try again after 3.0 drops, but I'm sure you'll find an alternative game to play in the interim. - Enjoy whatever it is you settle on, and I hope you can see there are plenty of other people enjoying X4.

Adding mod ideas into X4 and improving on them was a show of Egosoft listening to player feedback.

Personally I don't like that Egosoft have taken the "Anthem" route of releasing a semi-finished game and using the Roadmap strategy to alleviate the concerns because they couldn't hold back release for a year; I wonder how X4 would be perceived if it came out this November with 3.0 and the Split inside rather than release it last December the way it was?
That I would say that they have not learned their lesson from Rebirth when you release something in a semi-functioning state.

I personally LOVE X4, the features it promises and continued direction towards a fully self-sustaining economy, without need of any outside "God Engine" to help prop it up. A great step forward towards that.. Still lots to be done but compared to X3? It's a great improvement, you have to have the blinkers on to not think it's improved on this aspect.
The War Mechanics.. Which looks to be working now? Well at least when it comes to Stations being destroyable (Maybe other bugs still need fixing), but it's great to see the War Updates constantly changing.

3. Okay, I will rephrase this one because I get what you are saying, but my concern is a bit more complicated. Previous X games had such docking ports that would support ships flying directly at them. I do understand that this elevator-type docking was always a favourite with Egosoft, dating back to X-BtF however they only existed in cutscenes or without actual functionality (X3 trading docks).
Right now, if you wanted to create a ship with internal docking bays, it would be required to be quite tall, so that NPC ships don't clip into the hull. So that means that no narrow docks we had earlier. Here's this remake of the X2 Centaur corvette. It even has an S-class docking port in its belly where it was intended to be in the original vision. Guess where ships approach it to land in it? Well, not from the back, I can tell you that.
So again, it's not that it would be impossible to pull off internal hangars for ships. It's just that the current docking approach doesn't support any direction, other than "from above".

If anything? I find it makes the potential to add new rooms to visit more simpler for modders to bring to life witjhout having to worry about clipping it to an existing room structure.
Want to go to the Hydroponics Lab? Take the Lift.
The Casino? Take the Lift.
The Gift Shop? Take the Lift.
The Airlocks (Where Little Suzie's corpse lies)? Take the Lift.

Egosoft really need to make special modules that allow for new rooms to visit.
I'd love for that to be tied to a civilian economy, away from the War Economy.

[Buzz2005]

Why do people assume that Ego had like a choice to develop the game to 3.0 and split DLC and then release it but they went no screw it lets just release it early

they have dead lines and finances to worry about and I'm sure that that was the best they could do

[chew-ie]

Why do people assume that Ego had like a choice to develop the game to 3.0 and split DLC and then release it but they went no screw it lets just release it early

they have dead lines and finances to worry about and I'm sure that that was the best they could do

Because .... people.

[spankahontis]

Why do people assume that Ego had like a choice to develop the game to 3.0 and split DLC and then release it but they went no screw it lets just release it early

they have dead lines and finances to worry about and I'm sure that that was the best they could do

Then they could mention that, people would understand? We'd at least have closure that this was the reason.

But they don't do that, they leave us in the dark.. So what are we to do but assume that they released it on some profit cycle rather than release it when they felt confident that it was ready for general release?

releasing something in an unfinished state because they had no time isn't really a valid excuse, it's actually quite damaging to the consumer to buy a defective product.

[spankahontis]

Well, when I'm giving an opinion of a game, I'm giving my opinion of the game. Not what the mods turn it into. If I were to give an opinion of Sins of a Solar empire, I wouldn't give my opinion by describing elements of Star Trek Armada III. That's a mod. If I want to give an opinion about a mod, I will talk about a mod. The way I see it, a mod should compliment and improve gameplay, but it shouldn't be used to fix gameplay in order to give a game a higher score. That's not the way it works. XRebirth as it stood was not a good game. If mods made the game much better that's great and I applaud the community for their hard work and contributions. But it's not realistic nor acceptable to tell someone that it's their fault the game was crap because they didn't use mods made by the community to fix the mess made by the developers. That's a ridiculous assertion in my opinion. Again, I love mods and the community that makes them, but they're not an excuse that can be used to absolve a bad game.

Number of hours I spent in X:Rebirth.. 2769, so I have to totally disagree with you on that.
After Home of Light Expansion was released, that was the cherry on the cake for this game. I've never gotten close to that many hours with X3.

I was totally onboard with Egosofts message to make the economy more self-sustaining.. Sadly it didn't go entirely to plan. But it was still better than X3 in that regard. Scanning stations was entirely the choice of the player, all you got was discounts and unlocked missions; nothing really to grumble about.
To be able to walk around a station, sure they didn't think that far ahead with that, but the potential to take trading, NPC engagement, exploration, modding etc. to whole new level was there; it unlocked so much potential for the future.

Once you've played the game a few times without mods then in order to play it you need mods.. Skyrim is my most favourite game of all time but I simply can't play it anymore without mods.
Doesn't make it a crap game, it just means the game is predictable, all games get predictable after a while. Modding is an integral part of the gaming experience and if the game has a weak modding community? Then the game will fail in it's longevity.
I still play X:com: Enemy Within thanks to the Long War mod, but it wouldn't exist without the core game, people fail to see the symbiotic relationship between both the Vanilla game and the mods themselves, they're good because the vanilla game gave them the codes needed to make it good.
No game designer is going to make a game were modders are gonna scratch their Head and think "This game is too perfect to Mod".
I got substantial amounts of time out of Rebirth in vanilla, all games get boring after a while.. That doesn't make X:Rebirth a bad game.
Some of us actually like Rebirth 4.5, not 1.0 or 2.5 etc. In it's finished state, Rebirth is a top class game.
I gave up seeing reason to those that still hang onto the notion that it's a detestable game.. They had a point post 2.5!!
But it's a completely different beast now, time to reassess your feelings.

[radcapricorn]

And why is it so difficult for you to talk to me with at least a little bit of F'n respect or decency. Seriously, what the hell can possibly justify the sheer level of hostility you're directing towards me?

Zero hostility here, wherever did you get that idea from? You wrote something untrue, I challenged you on that. More than that, you made a big deal out of scanning specifically, as you talked about it at considerable length, twice. These are just cold facts, nothing to be offended about; we all make mistakes. But whatever floats your boat, I guess.

Ahem. I'm "declaring" that scanning wasn't as bad as you're trying to make it out, because it was entirely optional. Paragraphs. They serve a purpose.

And you again with the BS about my writing. What are you? A grammar Nazi? Is it possible for you to discuss any point of opposition without resorting to insults and jabs?

Um, that "BS" was about my writing. Or, if you wish, about your reading. Regardless, I was talking about my paragraphs. I said "it wasn't bad" referring to scanning, not the game on the whole. As in, in the same paragraph. You then proceeded to claim that I was talking about the game on the whole. You did write an opus about how it (i.e. scanning) was bad, when it wasn't. That's what I was talking about. In other words, you put a lot of effort into expressing something that is not true. Why does this observation offend you so?.. And just to clarify since you're being overly literal: no, not your whole post is the "opus" I'm referring to; yes, you did not talk only about scanning, but the parts about scanning are quite extensive on their own; they stand out, presumably because this was a big deal for you. There's nothing wrong with being verbose. Being verbose and wrong, that's another story. Especially on a public forum. I hope I shouldn't justify that as well.

...I actually tried to hire a trade agent without scanning the station first and it wouldn't let me...

The two are unrelated. Why it didn't let you hire that specific NPC, I don't know. What I do know is that scanning/no scanning has nothing to do with it. Usually the option is grayed out if you already have an agent, or if that person is temporary. Other than that, I've no idea and won't speculate.

It's all absolutely the same in X4 as well. I mean, the only thing different in 4 is that you don't have to get as close to update current trade offers as in Rebirth.

I'm sorry but no. In X4 I have not been scanning down all stations and I have yet to find a station that won't tell me it's current stock levels without scanning. I can see their stock and relative levels on the map.

Here we go again. I'm sorry but yes. This is how an ALI shipyard looks on the map just after starting a new game:

Note that you don't have access to storage or pretty much any other information. It's all "???". In order to get all those info items to expand and show you storage levels, etc., you absolutely have to fly around the station and scan it. Now, the point I'm fuzzy on is whether you have to scan the relevant modules specifically (like in Rebirth), or you just need to get the scan up to a certain percentage. If it's just percentage, then that's another improvement in X4's favor, to be sure. Regardless, it's the same for any other station as well, not just a shipyard: no scanning - no info.

Pretty much the only thing you get out of it from the get go is trade offer updates, because it's currently in sensor range of your asset (i.e. starting ship). That's the improvement over Rebirth (don't need to all but kiss the station). Still, just like in Rebirth, that info would expire after a certain time unless you do something about it. We have more options (and more convenient options) in X4 in that regard, that's true. But the core behavior is the same: you lose the info unless you somehow update it.

But unlike X3, you already had all known trade offers listed in trade computer anyway, so the stock information wasn't required for trading either. Thus scanning was entirely optional.

^(Bold and Underlined) This, is probably a fair point that I had not considered while playing. But you have to bare in mind how long I've been playing X games. In every previous game, I had always relied on relative stock levels...

Yes, I absolutely agree, this was a confusing change for a veteran. So was, pretty much, most of the rest of the game.

...If I had realized it, I would've focused on only getting the stock levels of critical stations such as the component factories needed for building ships (because shipyards were always running out of supplies).

Which actually makes that aspect of scanning an interesting game mechanic (in Rebirth). Depending on how you play and what you play (i.e. campaign/free play), there might be a number of stations you're interested in, be it for trading or piracy. Or your memory of production chain might be fuzzy and you don't want to get out of the game to google it. Scanning will therefore, of course be desireable. Or there might be none of that at all, in which case scanning would be irrelevant. If you want extended info, the game expects you, the player, to invest something in return. In X3 that investment was minimal - one asset per sector and trading system extension in your own ship. In Rebirth, instead, that investment is either time and risk being policed if you approach with contraband in pockets, or the same plus some amount of money (for purchasing an (illegal) drone which was required to fully scan modules on certain high-tech stations). In fact you could even get your money back or make a profit out of it, because you could get a station scanning mission. Anyway, in no way this was forced on you, as none of that extra information was necessary for progressing in the game.

But even if I had realized that, that still doesn't explain why I couldn't actually hire a trade agent without having first scanned down the station. Again, it could've been a bug or something I missed. The point is I don't know.

Just consider that the inability to hire that person actually had nothing to do with scanning. Like, a third of your original post would vanish (no, I didn't count the letters, feel free to point out how it wasn't at all a third; that's what it feels like though).

But even with that, I still think XRebirth relied too heavily on scanning...

That's the thing. It didn't rely on it. At all. In your original post, you make a big deal out of how foul it was to have to do it. Of course it would've been foul if you had to. But you didn't have to. So I guess you spent 200+ hours hating something that wasn't really there.

It's so good to see people with so much more knowledge than me about a game I sunk 224 hours and 52 minutes in...

Yes, well, I have 426 hours, so I guess mine is longer. As if that means something...

And I suppose the fact that you have more hours than me in game automatically makes any point I make wrong and every point you make right?

No. That last sentence, it's important, you know (sorry, this time it's definitely about your reading). Playtime is all but meaningless. Especially when you're basing your argument on your own misconception.

You do realize that I made a lot more points about a lot more aspects of the game than just scanning right? Oh that's right, you don't because you're the one who said he read up to the part about scanning and then automatically "dismissed" everything else in my post...

Yes, I did say that. Scanning was one of your key bashing points, whether you intended so or not. There were others, to be sure, but that one stands out, you spent quite a bit more time trying to make that point than anything else. And... it was wrong. Which, in turn, makes me question how well were you familiar with other aspects of the game, which, to boot, you comparatively glossed over, considering how much you wrote about scanning. Comparatively. No, you didn't really gloss over them. But comparatively, yes you did.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that I wasn't some noob who only played 1 hour and then proceeded to complain without ever having actually tried. That even with that many hours played, at no point did the game ever offer me nor advise me of a better alternative to scanning.

You wanted info - you scanned. You didn't want it - you didn't scan. Those were the player's options in the game. Assuming either was required is the player's fault, not the game's. I still don't get what other alternative you need. Scanning was a way to get extended information about a station. Just like there was a way to get that in previous games. They were just different ways, is all. Either way, that information isn't required for progressing in the game, and is considerably less useful overall than in previous games, but may be desirable for a given player in a given game.

I'm going to make one last attempt to lay everything down on the line. I am perfectly willing to discuss any point I make that you contest, agree or disagree with. I am perfectly willing reconsider and re-assess any view I have on the game in light of new information or considerations I had not previously considered. But I am not willing to interact with you nor anyone else if you are not going to at least talk to me in a respectful manner. The hostility, rudeness and insulting manner in which you have interacted with me consistently thus far is unacceptable and I am not willing to tolerate nor engage with that any further.

Then please consider reading what is said, not reading something into it that isn't there. I haven't insulted you, in fact I haven't attacked your person in any way at all. You wrote an extensive post on a public forum which one (i.e. me) chose to spend time to read, didn't take well to obvious critique, and outright demanded of me to change my tone, and yet I'm the hostile one here? I'm sorry, but if you've taken offense, that was your choice, not mine.

[Buzz2005]

Why do people assume that Ego had like a choice to develop the game to 3.0 and split DLC and then release it but they went no screw it lets just release it early

they have dead lines and finances to worry about and I'm sure that that was the best they could do

Then they could mention that, people would understand? We'd at least have closure that this was the reason.

But they don't do that, they leave us in the dark.. So what are we to do but assume that they released it on some profit cycle rather than release it when they felt confident that it was ready for general release?

releasing something in an unfinished state because they had no time isn't really a valid excuse, it's actually quite damaging to the consumer to buy a defective product.

Think of this from a business viewpoint, would you buy it if they did
Is any company doing this?
Example when a ISP guy calls you and tries to sell you their internet connection or whatever do they go well it might sometimes not work, or the bandwidth will not be always what was sold
I have an example from mine line of work, satelite dish installer, they dont tell costumers hey when the weather is bad you wont have a picture (cheap satellite and weak signal)
they would not sell anything to anyone

examples are numerous, all those commercials on tv, basically all lies and sugarcoating