Kha'Ka Invincible? - Improved in 3.10 Beta.

[Faley]

I have finally destroyed every shipyard, wharf, station, and Defense platform owned by the Xenon. I also believe I have destroyed every Xenon ship, unless there are some lurking in some unexposed areas that I could not find. Anyway, I then took my enormous fleet and attacked a station owned by the Kha'ka. I forget the name of it but i will provide it if there are any responses.
I had my entire fleet attack the station, (about 250 ships) for about 1.5 hrs real-time, (OOS) and there was zero, 0, reduction to the 100% Hull status of the station. I then joined in (IS) myself with a Corvette, my personal ship, and bombarded it with the rest of the fleet for another 30 minutes real time. and still no reduction to the 100% hull status. Is that norm, or am I shooting blanks?

[radcapricorn]

Yes, their stations are invincible. Which indeed makes them more of a Kha'ka than Kha'ak.

[Faley]

Yes, their stations are invincible. Which indeed makes them more of a Kha'ka than Kha'ak.

Thanks for the response as well as the spelling correction. I was never very good at Kha'akanese

So I am wasting my time trying to destroy their stations. I will send my fleet home, battle weary now after defeated the xenon.

[Virtualaughing]

In my save i have one in paranid space. Multiple wings occupied by this crazyness.

[mr.WHO]

WHy Khaak station are invulnerable? Unlike Xenon stations, they serv no gameplay purpose as Khaak spawn out of thin Air.

In my game these station not only serv no purpose, but also detriment as they draw NPC faction forces (Paranid, Teladi) that could be contributing to war effort elswhere.

Egosoft please remove invulnerability from Khaak stations!

[radcapricorn]

Because KHK typed in iddqd. Next version, they'll type in idkfa and go wreak havoc in the whole universe.

[pref]

Lets give them some BFGs too.

[exogenesis]

Was wondering why Kha'ak stations are indestructible,
guess it's cos they can't re-build due to having no builders/economy ?

Trouble is they are a faction-destroyer magnet as Virtualaughing said,
currently (v3.0 beta 4) I've got 21 Teladi Phoenixs in Matrix#451, circling the Kha'ak station there.

Which until v3.0 would have been more than the whole Teladi destroyer force,
but after v3.0 the Teladi have ramped destroyer production to TRIPLE the number in v2.50
(they now have 43 Phoenixs in total, much more than any other faction).
Ministry has ramped up destroyer production as well since v3.0, no-one else has, at least not nearly as much.

Not sure if this ramp-up is a deliberate code change by ES to compensate for 'locked up' destroyers etc,
or just the game's rndGOD in action...

[Axeface]

Its obviously a placeholder, its quite frustrating and bewildering to find something so blatently unfinished in the game to be frank - its depressing. Especially when the AI throws massive chunks of their fleets at them. Kha'ak expansion is probably planned as part of a dlc/patch, it cant come too soon. I'de rather the stations were removed for now or some kind of temporary change was added in 3.0 until they are actually fleshed out.

[CBJ]

The Kha'ak are not a "placeholder". As with all things in the game, we may well iterate on their properties and behaviour on the basis of feedback, but they have never had an in-game economy and we have no plans to add one. The Xenon are the "familiar" enemy with an economy; the role of the Kha'ak is to be less predictable and to be able to cause trouble that cannot be prevented simply by interfering with their economy.

[mr.WHO]

The Kha'ak are not a "placeholder". As with all things in the game, we may well iterate on their properties and behaviour on the basis of feedback, but they have never had an in-game economy and we have no plans to add one. The Xenon are the "familiar" enemy with an economy; the role of the Kha'ak is to be less predictable and to be able to cause trouble that cannot be prevented simply by interfering with their economy.

But this is not the issue here! Nothing in above statement justify invulnerable stations. This provide no gameplay benefit but provide detriment with npc faction trying to destroy invulnerable object. Additionally making khk stations destroyable doesnt hurt khk economy/war capacity/break the game in any way, since khk are spawned out of thin air.

[Rei Ayanami]

The Kha'ak are not a "placeholder". As with all things in the game, we may well iterate on their properties and behaviour on the basis of feedback, but they have never had an in-game economy and we have no plans to add one. The Xenon are the "familiar" enemy with an economy; the role of the Kha'ak is to be less predictable and to be able to cause trouble that cannot be prevented simply by interfering with their economy.

That's a fair argument for not giving them an economy, however could you at least please make their stations destructible? Not only are indestructible stations immersion breaking, but also there is the issue where the longer the game goes on the more ships get stuck attacking the KHK station forever.
I think KHK stations should be destroyable and when a KHK station gets destroyed after a while a new one will pop up in a randomly chosen sector, away from the main area or other stations.
Also, do Khaak actually do anything? i have yet to see any Khaak ship that spawned by a Khaak station actually fly anywhere. The only Khaak i encounter in my games are seemingly teleported in by the random encounter mechanic, all other Khaak ships seemingly just hang out around their station,

[CBJ]

But this is not the issue here! Nothing in above statement justify invulnerable stations.

Please read what I actually said. My reply was a direct response to the post immediately above which claimed that the Kha'ak were a "placeholder", which was just plain false, and that they needed to be "fleshed out" by giving them economy, which we do not agree with. I didn't say anything about the issue of the invulnerable stations.

The reason for the stations being invulnerable was simply that if they weren't, they would be "one-off" objects which would soon be destroyed, sometimes even by the NPC factions before the player even got a chance to see them. That's a bit of a waste. We actually agree that them being indestructible is not an ideal solution, but just making them destructible is not a good solution either. Having them respawn somewhere random might be a popular alternative for some players, particularly those who enjoy the combat side of the game, but for others who are more interested in the economic side of the game it would be extremely frustrating. And no, "make it optional" is not an answer either.

[Marvin Martian]

why you don't went them for a couple of hours neutral/ownerless after a "destruction raid" of any faction?
this may prevent attacks for an eternety from anyone

[Axeface]

Well to me that answer makes the situation even more depressing, I assumed they were like this because of time constraints. To find out its actually a decision that was made is even more bewildering.

For the record, I think the Kha'ak could fill an unpredictable threat role in the game - they could be the exception to the no jump drive rule, even their stations could jump when under threat. Would require some effects work to make it look cool. In a perfect world kha'ak would get expanded and given new capital ships, maybe even a story that links the new kha'ak to the player headquarters (the player finding and dimension jumping it causes different kha'ak from another dimension to show up).

In the time being I'de say either make the stations destructible or make them jump like the PHQ does when almost destroyed - that at least makes them cool and surprising in a lore sense. Arming them a bit would be nice too.

[Tempest]

what i did;

- build your own station nearby a Kha'Ak installation

- rename station to : Fleet Training Facility

- assign all unused Fleet assets/new pilots to station defense

- go OOS

- let the Fleets grind combat Experience

[mr.WHO]

But this is not the issue here! Nothing in above statement justify invulnerable stations.

Please read what I actually said. My reply was a direct response to the post immediately above which claimed that the Kha'ak were a "placeholder", which was just plain false, and that they needed to be "fleshed out" by giving them economy, which we do not agree with. I didn't say anything about the issue of the invulnerable stations.

The reason for the stations being invulnerable was simply that if they weren't, they would be "one-off" objects which would soon be destroyed, sometimes even by the NPC factions before the player even got a chance to see them. That's a bit of a waste. We actually agree that them being indestructible is not an ideal solution, but just making them destructible is not a good solution either. Having them respawn somewhere random might be a popular alternative for some players, particularly those who enjoy the combat side of the game, but for others who are more interested in the economic side of the game it would be extremely frustrating. And no, "make it optional" is not an answer either.

If you realy want people to see khk station with 'in your face' style then why not turn them into decoration or neutral object like aqueduct station? That would deal with npc aggro problem.

Alternatively make one khk exclusive sektor away from other factions and xenons so it would not screw with war mechanics.

[Waltz9]

I don't like that any station could be indestructable.
I found a great sector I took over and found a huge Kha'ak base. I didn't even start attacking but the fact that it is indestructable, I'm glad I didn't waste time to it yet.
Problem is. I had police in my sector and they fly right into station defense where they didn't have any chance.
So this also prevents me to patrol or police sector this way.

I would make the station destructable but give them like mobile station or something like that. so they could pop up anywhere in the universe. Just like you did with the X3 pirate stations. Then they can cause trouble anywhere.

[Axeface]

I think the normal reaction of most players is - come across kha'ak station that youve never seen before, get excited about the potential big fight and possibilities, see friendly faction attacking, decide to help them out in defeating this mighty foe, attack for a while and realise nothing is happening, realise it isnt even armed, leave the area feeling completely deflated looking back and the stupid AI throwing more and more destroyers at it... then just blacklist that sector forever. I really dont understand how it was a concious decision to place these stations in in such a distracting and destructive way and be happy to leave it like that indefinately.
The same order of events culminating in the station pulling a PHQ and warping out (or just blowing up :/ ) would be at least be somewhat satisfying and at least it would be a gameplay loop.

[Buzz2005]

I would rather read a thread with title, what is the purpose of khaak station if its destroyed in the first hour, then this now

I said somewhere that both ways are basically "wrong" but making them destructible is the better choice especially if nothing is lost gameplay vise