[Suggestion] Difficulty settings

[Shepp]

This makes absolutely no sense. MIN is the government/police of TEL. ANT and ARG are allied and together they make the Argon Federation. HOP and PAR fight each other due to a civil war. Looking at leaked data for the DLC (in one of the betas), there will be roughly 5 split factions.

If you could point me to some resource that spells all of this out that would be great! The in game encyclopedia entries for the factions have no information. I also haven't really seen anything on the internet that spells out what you've said here. It's not that I doubt you, but why is this type of world building info so hard to find? Also why would you have multiple factions of the same race if they are meant to get along with one another? How come they aren't just one faction? I had assumed that each race had two factions was because they were oppose one another like "Sin's of a Solar Empire: Rebellion".

[GCU Grey Area]

What kinda bugs me more is that msot war missions actually don't seem to displease the faction they are directed against. ANT are in an economic war with TEL, PAR with HOP and ARG with HOP too, I feel like having to take a side might have made some decisions more meaningful.

Tend to agree. Just completing one of the war mission chains should have negative rep consequences with the enemy faction. Think it should be scaled to the apparent threat posed by the missions e.g. fairly minimal if all you're doing is shipping supplies to stations, somewhat more if you're deploying minefields, laser towers or spy satellites. Those sort of activities IMO however should not preclude playing the mercenary & working for both sides, balancing rep loss & gains with the relevant factions. In my experience the more serious war missions tend to take care of themselves in this regard - if you start boarding or shooting down their ships the enemy faction tends to notice.

[Imperial Good]

Tend to agree. Just completing one of the war mission chains should have negative rep consequences with the enemy faction. Think it should be scaled to the apparent threat posed by the missions e.g. fairly minimal if all you're doing is shipping supplies to stations, somewhat more if you're deploying minefields, laser towers or spy satellites. Those sort of activities IMO however should not preclude playing the mercenary & working for both sides, balancing rep loss & gains with the relevant factions. In my experience the more serious war missions tend to take care of themselves in this regard - if you start boarding or shooting down their ships the enemy faction tends to notice.

Would be better if they demand compensation from you if you are heavily biased to one faction. If you are freelancing for both sides equally, there is no problem and so both sides should like you. However if you are completing missions for only one of the waring factions the other should threaten you, to either complete missions, pay war taxes or remove a lot of reputation (as you are secretly an enemy). This is a lot more realistic and fits with the freelance/sandbox play a lot better.

One could use a point system to track this, which is made visible to you at any time. If the points exceed a threshold the faction starts to be uppity and make demands of you.

[radcapricorn]

I think that reputation consequences should be secondary at best. The core of the issue is that missions themselves, as they are now, are not designed to be meaningful, they're filler. Assemble fleet - ships sit there doing nothing. Supply wares - no urgent reason, often completes on its own, sometimes even right when you accept the mission. Deliver random items to NPCs - nothing to talk about, no effect on the universe at all. Scout out resources (several times at the exact same spot in the exact same sector) - no consequence, miners mine where they please anyway. Build station - read "pay player for something we could've done ourselves, but that's OK, we have infinite money, because obviously that's what happens when you're at war". All this won't be cured by penalizing player via reducing their reputation with opposing faction.

[Nort The Fragrent]

If you are after the game to be harder, only use small weapons!
Smaller ships, and build small factories!
Dont use the highways,
Dont use SETA.
Or Travel drive.

That way the games gets really hard.
And if thats not hard enough! Go build your Factories in Matrix #451.

Tut, !

Hard !

You guys ought to try it with no Guns at all. Like I do, now thats hard.

Steel reinforced concert, thats me. Tough as navidium, Tougher than supermen.

Get off your soft chairs, and get hard.

Ya, Hoora.

[radcapricorn]

You're confusing "difficult" with "pointlessly tedious", Nort. But that does highlight the point I made earlier: the only way to make the game as it is now more challenging is to restrict yourself from half of it, or even more.

[Nort The Fragrent]

The game is pointless anyway !

So your point is as is mine, pointless too ?

[blanmgr]

For example one could increase Xenon aggression which makes them build larger fleets and faster with more economy (not cheating). Or do the same with HOP so they pose a significant threat.

Something like that already happening in my 3.0 game. Within hours of starting a new game a huge Xenon fleet (at least a dozen capitals) were rampaging around Hatikvah's Choice 1. They're still there, though a few have since spread out into adjacent sectors. Simultaneously HOP launched an offensive through Second Contact into Argon Prime itself. They've smashed ALL the stations along the main highway (including the Wharf) & are currently going after stations further afield. Haven't seen the Argon fleet for days, beginning to suspect they don't have one anymore (& possibly don't have sufficient infrastructure to build a new one). They put up a spirited defence near the Tharka's Cascade gate in HC1 but ultimately were simply overwhelmed by Xenon numbers. Think Xenon & HOP aggression is strong enough as it is, not sure how much more successful they could have been.

I think that's an issue with the Argon AI. Even in 2.6 I would watch as HAT looses their home sector while the main Argon fleet is chilling in Prime. What ARG is generally doing is sending destroyers 1 by 1 instead of the main fleet and slowly building a second fleet in Hatkivah's Choice, that either gets crushed by the Xenon or the player helps building up their numbers. If there is no player involvement the Xenon usually win resulting in Argon Prime facing a 2 front war between HOP and XEN, if ANT screwed up. If ANT doesn't screw up then Argon Prime is still cut of from half its territories and its traders cannot supply the shipyards so they die to attrition.

These are all great points but my favorite issue (ver 2.6) is about the Xenon aggression in sector and the responses from the AI (from any area faction ships in the sector) was either non-existent or extremely weak in response. In X3:TC, if you do something against a faction, it will send a fleet (not just one ship) chasing you all over the universe.

[Imperial Good]

These are all great points but my favorite issue (ver 2.6) is about the Xenon aggression in sector and the responses from the AI (from any area faction ships in the sector) was either non-existent or extremely weak in response. In X3:TC, if you do something against a faction, it will send a fleet (not just one ship) chasing you all over the universe.

Those rapid response fleets were generated and cheated to be able to do that. Specifically the M7Ms were given free missiles every time they jumped, if I recall.

Half the problem in X4 is that the NPC factions are missing their response fleets because they have been destroyed and wares are lacking to rebuild them.

[eXalt!]

Edited the original post with some of the ideas posted through the thread that are in line with my original concept: easy to implement / not changing the sandbox balance.

Very interesting indeed, I didn’t think some of this points as making the game too easy, others did. But that’s the whole point of this thread: Some difficulty settings will make the game better for everyone.

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LOOTING:
-Chances of AI pilots bailing: %
-Probability of fighting loot: %
-Fighting loot value: %
-Loot “time to live”: %
-Probability of random lockboxes/spacefly eggs: %
-Value of lockboxes/datavaults loot: %

MINING:
-Crystal spawning*: %

ABANDONED SHIPS:
-Abandoned ships: Yes/No
-Randomize abandoned ships (type and location)**: Yes/No

*not sure if this is randomized or scripted
**Maybe this one is not “super easy” to implement. Nevertheless it doesnt affect the sandbox, adds good replayability and make exploration more interesting and rewarding.

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[pref]

Those rapid response fleets were generated and cheated to be able to do that. Specifically the M7Ms were given free missiles every time they jumped, if I recall.

Half the problem in X4 is that the NPC factions are missing their response fleets because they have been destroyed and wares are lacking to rebuild them.

Would be really nice to see RRF back, a major faction having a single carrier and a handful of destroyers wandering aimlessly is just insufficient anyway. Even if it takes time to build they should stock up a couple more ships that they only use in case of attack. Having higher difficulty would start about here, where AI can present a challenge to the player and not in the form of more ships running around killing random targets, but responses triggered by player actions.
Pity it would not work anyway as ships cant even chase another one, nor eliminate a specific group of hostiles.

ES sacrificed way too much gameplay for being able to say that everything is produced legit via the economy. No gain, lots of pain.

[radcapricorn]

Would be really nice to see RRF back...

Heh, with the way large ships travel at the moment, I'm struggling to picture a rapid response fleet in X4

[GCU Grey Area]

ES sacrificed way too much gameplay for being able to say that everything is produced legit via the economy. No gain, lots of pain.

You'd really prefer them to go back to a game where the stations a faction owns are more or less irrelevant to their ability to build a fleet? I very much like the changes X4 made in this regard. Currently in my game the Argons are very limited in what they can do - fleet has been obliterated & they're most definitely losing to HOP. Argon Prime is a wasteland (just 3 stations left, none of which is a shipyard). Would seem truly bizarre in such circumstances if they could just magic a fleet out of nowhere. Great deal of strategic gameplay would be lost if they could do that - no incentive, other than cash, to build factories of my own to support Argon shipbuilding (when they finally decide where they're going to build the replacement shipyard) & attempt to turn the tide.

[pref]

You'd really prefer them to go back to a game where the stations a faction owns are more or less irrelevant to their ability to build a fleet? I very much like the changes X4 made in this regard. Currently in my game the Argons are very limited in what they can do - fleet has been obliterated & they're most definitely losing to HOP. Argon Prime is a wasteland (just 3 stations left, none of which is a shipyard). Would seem truly bizarre in such circumstances if they could just magic a fleet out of nowhere.

You only think about the 2 extremes of the same scale. There need to be consequences obviously, but if the world consists of 1 carrier plus 5 destroyer per faction which they cannot even replace due to issues with their economy that makes the universe feel extremely small and the factions seem more like children in need of babysitting.
The optimum would be somewhere between, where AI gets enough help to not be completely hopeless just because a couple of their stations got blown up. But obviously not let them spawn everything on demand.
Btw currently the faction budgets have no real limit. What matters is available products in their vicinity. So i built a complex near HOP and they suddenly could buy everything i had to sell regardless of them having a very small economic power and effectively no shipbuilding capability.

It's an entirely unrealistic expectation that an eco sim on this scale can work without artificial balancing. Not even if the aim of the software was purely to simulate an economy but X4 is supposed to provide gameplay on top of that.

[GCU Grey Area]

Btw currently the faction budgets have no real limit. What matters is available products in their vicinity. So i built a complex near HOP and they suddenly could buy everything i had to sell regardless of them having a very small economic power and effectively no shipbuilding capability.

Not like that in my game at all. HOP has a truly monstrous economy (guess it's rigged that way because they're enemies with more or less everyone, so need to be self-sufficient). Holy Vision alone is home to more than a couple of dozen stations. Rest of their sectors aren't far behind, over a dozen stations in each one within range of the satellites I deployed at the start of the current game (could be more lurking round the edges). Also, certainly wasn't a fleet consisting merely of a single carrier + 5 destroyers which wiped out Argon Prime - entirely different order of magnitude.

[pref]

Not like that in my game at all.

A dev posted that budgets are near infinite but based on what you tell it's the same with you.
When you start a game HOP doesn't have much and in my case they couldn't even build ships. Just grant them access to wares and they start to build 10s of stations. Their state regarding eco or warships does not matter at all in expansion rate.
I bet if you just built good amount of production lines for argons they would build a lot regardless of their current state.

I never saw any faction have more then 1 carriers and 5-10 destroyers the same time. Kept boarding all the L and XL warships at some point and there wasn't more then that even though i had good sat coverage.
HOP didn't even have a carrier during first 200 hours.

[pref]

Heh, with the way large ships travel at the moment, I'm struggling to picture a rapid response fleet in X4

Yeah same here.
Though i would also question response, unless revisiting the enemy's past locations counts as a response..

[GCU Grey Area]

A dev posted that budgets are near infinite but based on what you tell it's the same with you.
When you start a game HOP doesn't have much and in my case they couldn't even build ships. Just grant them access to wares and they start to build 10s of stations. Their state regarding eco or warships does not matter at all in expansion rate.
I bet if you just built good amount of production lines for argons they would build a lot regardless of their current state.

I never saw any faction have more then 1 carriers and 5-10 destroyers the same time. Kept boarding all the L and XL warships at some point and there wasn't more then that even though i had good sat coverage.
HOP didn't even have a carrier during first 200 hours.

HOP economy is none of my doing. Game is very new (started when the 3.0 beta came out). Just over 100 hours into it so far. Only just got round to building my first station to support ANT shipbuilding. So far my effect on the economy has been fairly minimal - just a single ship for most of the time & an M freighter with a 7.9K hold just isn't going to make that much of a difference. Suspect your game may be older, they may have tweaked the fleet numbers in 3.0b. HOP fleet was several times larger than what you mention (right from the start of the game) & included multiple carriers & resupply vessels.

[pref]

Suspect your game may be older, they may have tweaked the fleet numbers in 3.0b. HOP fleet was several times larger than what you mention (right from the start of the game) & included multiple carriers & resupply vessels.

That's good if they have increased the quota. Every faction should have a strong fleet as long as their eco isn't significantly crippled.
Haven't tried the beta yet.

[radcapricorn]

Heh, with the way large ships travel at the moment, I'm struggling to picture a rapid response fleet in X4

Yeah same here.
Though i would also question response, unless revisiting the enemy's past locations counts as a response..

Well in 3.0 beta any military and police that's already present in the sector seem to gang up on incoming hostiles rather efficiently, at least as far as their speed allows.