Dear Egosoft Developers: A plea...

[mr.WHO]

Speaking of other games, I just realized Stellaris also has a somewhat complex simulation, but also does multiplayer, and you can even save the game session in it.

You would not believe how many people complain about de-sync issues of MP Session every time Stellaris is updated (and it's updated very frequently).

[Y-llian]

Speaking of other games, I just realized Stellaris also has a somewhat complex simulation, but also does multiplayer, and you can even save the game session in it.

Yes, I enjoy Stellaris... but, it’s nothing like X4. They are completely different games, with different design and aims. The only relation is that they are both computer games, in the same vain as saying apples and bridges are similar because they both have matter.

I’m not saying this to be unkind, I appreciate there are diverging views here. At the core (and I’d say strength) of the X series has been the aim to simulate a universe where you can play in first-person but also have a strategic, economic and shooter gameplay. It’s genre defying which is why comparisons with other games are always going to be problematic.

[spankahontis]

Egosoft stated they won't do X4 VR, because XR VR was financial failure.

It must take several years and several more games like Half-Life Alyx, before VR market become big enough to be financially viable.

Hello Games is making everyone else look bad then since they added VR to No Man's Sky in their regular updates. Then a few months later had an update just to add an in-game music synthesizer...

No Man's Sky was thee most hyped game in news media, no game in history received as much press from game magazines, even beyond games media.

Sadly, Egosoft can only wish for that sort of coverage, which Rebirth VR didn't get a crumb of. Maybe it would of made more money if it had more media coverage? But that requires allot of money to invest in marketing.
Sean Murray was handed everything, all that free media that he didn't deserve.

[Clownmug]

Egosoft stated they won't do X4 VR, because XR VR was financial failure.

It must take several years and several more games like Half-Life Alyx, before VR market become big enough to be financially viable.

Hello Games is making everyone else look bad then since they added VR to No Man's Sky in their regular updates. Then a few months later had an update just to add an in-game music synthesizer...

No Man's Sky was thee most hyped game in news media, no game in history received as much press from game magazines, even beyond games media.

Sadly, Egosoft can only wish for that sort of coverage, which Rebirth VR didn't get a crumb of. Maybe it would of made more money if it had more media coverage? But that requires allot of money to invest in marketing.
Sean Murray was handed everything, all that free media that he didn't deserve.

Good marketing doesn't require a lot of investment, it just requires more effort than a few web ads, livestreaming a couple videos, and showing up at Gamescom every few years. Also having marketable features like VR and multiplayer helps. Just vaguely insinuating they had multiplayer, even though they didn't at the time, was enough to sell No Man's Sky to a lot of people.

[spankahontis]

Hello Games is making everyone else look bad then since they added VR to No Man's Sky in their regular updates. Then a few months later had an update just to add an in-game music synthesizer...

No Man's Sky was thee most hyped game in news media, no game in history received as much press from game magazines, even beyond games media.

Sadly, Egosoft can only wish for that sort of coverage, which Rebirth VR didn't get a crumb of. Maybe it would of made more money if it had more media coverage? But that requires allot of money to invest in marketing.
Sean Murray was handed everything, all that free media that he didn't deserve.

Good marketing doesn't require a lot of investment, it just requires more effort than a few web ads, livestreaming a couple videos, and showing up at Gamescom every few years. Also having marketable features like VR and multiplayer helps. Just vaguely insinuating they had multiplayer, even though they didn't at the time, was enough to sell No Man's Sky to a lot of people.

It was WAY more than just bullshitting about multi-player!
Sean Murray lied about something like 70+ features of the game and people started building up all these awesome features and that is what built momentum.
That side of his momentum was free because the Space Sim community were hyping this up like a virus spreading.
Free advertising being spread by those that heard Murray's hype.

But that couldn't of happened without the dozens of interviews he conducted to games magazines.
He even managed to get on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert, he was THAT popular at the time. He hit mainstream audiences even beyond gaming markets, Sure he had a marketing firm selling the concept of his games to the target audiences but no market firm could of prepared for the hype that No Mans Sky got.
This 'nobody' games company got more publicity than the top AAA Games of the time.
One of the most hyped games in video game history. I've heard it got more coverage all-round than Star Citizen?

Testament to a lie getting halfway across the world before the truth has time to put it's pants on.

[CBJ]

Can we not turn this thread into yet another rehash of a well-worn discussion about someone else's game, please?

[Clownmug]

Can we not turn this thread into yet another rehash of a well-worn discussion about someone else's game, please?

Ok, it's only fair since no one really discusses the X games anywhere else on the internet.

[Razorbeast]

I got all excited yesterday because I was picking X4 up again after a very long time away and, while setting up my controls (I have a new HOTAS), I noticed that in the controls list was an option to centre VR and thought that VR was finally coming to X4. I guess not. It's a shame, because I think that would be an awesome addition.

I think that they main reason that X: Rebirth didn't get many sales in VR is because the game isn't very good. I bought it as soon as it came out in the original version and regretted it. I then bought it when it came out in VR thinking that it would be impressive enough to overcome its shortcomings. It was better, largely because more development time had been spent on the core game, but it still wasn't good enough. I spent a lot of hours in the game and I enjoyed them but I got pretty upset when I couldn't complete my space station because there was a total lack of a vital resource (I can't remember what it was now, possibly reinforced steel or something). Once I hit that barrier it was game over.

From what I've played of X4 it is a really good game and if it had VR it would be a really good VR game and I would like to think that it would sell a lot more copies than X:R for that reason. Unfortunately, there seems to be this weird clique in the space game market that includes E:D, Star Citizen, and NMS but that completely ignores any of the X games, despite the fact that the X games are far superior to all of the other three (except X:R, obviously).

[dtpsprt]

I got all excited yesterday because I was picking X4 up again after a very long time away and, while setting up my controls (I have a new HOTAS), I noticed that in the controls list was an option to centre VR and thought that VR was finally coming to X4. I guess not. It's a shame, because I think that would be an awesome addition.

I think that they main reason that X: Rebirth didn't get many sales in VR is because the game isn't very good. I bought it as soon as it came out in the original version and regretted it. I then bought it when it came out in VR thinking that it would be impressive enough to overcome its shortcomings. It was better, largely because more development time had been spent on the core game, but it still wasn't good enough. I spent a lot of hours in the game and I enjoyed them but I got pretty upset when I couldn't complete my space station because there was a total lack of a vital resource (I can't remember what it was now, possibly reinforced steel or something). Once I hit that barrier it was game over.

From what I've played of X4 it is a really good game and if it had VR it would be a really good VR game and I would like to think that it would sell a lot more copies than X:R for that reason. Unfortunately, there seems to be this weird clique in the space game market that includes E:D, Star Citizen, and NMS but that completely ignores any of the X games, despite the fact that the X games are far superior to all of the other three (except X:R, obviously).

You can find at least two threads concerning VR in X4 and the reasons (given by the Devs themselves) for not doing so. You may agree or disagree with them, your point of view, but this is how things are on this subject. I strongly suggest you enjoy X4 and, seriously, wait for VR to be stabilised and standardised as a system and then I'm sure that you'll find lots of games and even other applications that will use it (it is the future in computer usage no doubt about that).

[joshish]

The only way to avoid the need for huge amounts of data to be bouncing between clients to keep them in sync would be to cut it down to a 1v1 local combat simulation, but that's totally at odds with what X series games are all about.

I think it would actually be a lot of fun to have a 1v1 local combat simulation, not replacing what we have already, but adding to it as a separate mode that could be selected in the menu. Not try to simulate the entire universe, just a single sector at most, where two players can test out their dogfighting and fleet command abilities against each other. Play around with ship balance, see what works best, be a fleet commander and ship commander at the same time. I'd pay for a DLC like that! I think a lot of other players would be happy to have something like this as well. It would not be something to replace the current X4 game, I think it would greatly add to it as a separate mode though.

Interesting. I suspect they already have plans for something along these lines for the Ventures system.

Venture jump to fight a battle in an unconnected system with another player would be interesting, but potentially too many resources for just a little addition.

[Kork]

I wonder if Egosoft could maybe do something like a Kickstarter for a VR version. This way they wouldn't have the financial risk. They already should have a fair bit of experience with VR porting given XR:VR exists. I don't know how much of that can actually be translated to X4, but I suppose one would not need to start entirely from scratch. Worst case, the Kickstarter misses the mark and well then that's it. Best case, Egosoft gets the money it needs for a VR version and might even sell a few copies extra. I for one would pay full price again for a VR port, but not everyone might. A Kickstarter would be a nice way of solving this.

[Lord Dakier]

Why does these threads pop up so often? VR isn't even 10% of the gaming community. Egosoft would be foolish to their already limited manpower and development time in a largely weak market. The reality is you may pay for it, but the majority wouldn't be buying VR to play it.

[dtpsprt]

Why does these threads pop up so often? VR isn't even 10% of the gaming community. Egosoft would be foolish to their already limited manpower and development time in a largely weak market. The reality is you may pay for it, but the majority wouldn't be buying VR to play it.

It's about the failed experiment with X Rebirth VR, I certainly wish they had dedicated the time to make it in more thought and design for X4, we would have all benefitted from it... A simple "There is not going to be a VR version for this game" in the "shop's" description (here, GOG and STEAM) would have been enough...

[Buzz2005]

Why does these threads pop up so often? VR isn't even 10% of the gaming community. Egosoft would be foolish to their already limited manpower and development time in a largely weak market. The reality is you may pay for it, but the majority wouldn't be buying VR to play it.

It's about the failed experiment with X Rebirth VR, I certainly wish they had dedicated the time to make it in more thought and design for X4, we would have all benefitted from it... A simple "There is not going to be a VR version for this game" in the "shop's" description (here, GOG and STEAM) would have been enough...

how would I for example benefit from VR?

I will never buy it, nor any VR game

[Lord Dakier]

Why does these threads pop up so often? VR isn't even 10% of the gaming community. Egosoft would be foolish to their already limited manpower and development time in a largely weak market. The reality is you may pay for it, but the majority wouldn't be buying VR to play it.

It's about the failed experiment with X Rebirth VR, I certainly wish they had dedicated the time to make it in more thought and design for X4, we would have all benefitted from it... A simple "There is not going to be a VR version for this game" in the "shop's" description (here, GOG and STEAM) would have been enough...

how would I for example benefit from VR?

I will never buy it, nor any VR game

Exactly this. Why waste valuable development resources that are already lacking so much that we have numerous issues in regards to fleet commands, docking, boarding, missile combat, faction economy, faction military defences and you want to add VR. If you got VR then the game would have been even less developed. For a small company like Egosoft, a single title release is a massive risk. They tried VR during the 'this is the future of gaming phase' and it flopped. Only a fool would attempt that again on a new endeavour like X4.

[Prosik]

While VR would be nice to have I think you all are correct about implementing it in X4 especially since it is already vastly incomplete adding VR would only
slow down much needed development and limit purchasing of head-pullers to see the issues that need to never occur again in future games if there are any.
Also understand that the last title you are basing not creating VR on was a failure as far as gamers are concerned and would not want to purchase another bad egg so to speak.
I myself purchased the CE edition and felt the burn enough not to buy the VR version. I personally would also not want another VR port. No Man Sky although has
VR and for free it is a terrible implementation. While fun it needs much rework and bug addressing that it likely will never be as good as it should be.

As far as multiplayer the entire game would have to be changed to suit multiplayer capability maybe even making it a client server MMO type game. What would
you want out of multiplayer? Arena style space battles, skirmishes? Just another player to help build an empire? Each of those require quite a bit of thought
and development time to either limit the game or expand options depending on which type. Persistence would be one issue just in Co-op mode. Save the game
twice, once on both computers? Which one starts the game again? Does the game even stop running? If one client crashes is the game over?

[Falcrack]

As far as multiplayer the entire game would have to be changed to suit multiplayer capability maybe even making it a client server MMO type game. What would
you want out of multiplayer? Arena style space battles, skirmishes? Just another player to help build an empire? Each of those require quite a bit of thought
and development time to either limit the game or expand options depending on which type. Persistence would be one issue just in Co-op mode. Save the game
twice, once on both computers? Which one starts the game again? Does the game even stop running? If one client crashes is the game over?

I would be quite happy with arena style space battles, set in a single sector without the full universe simulation. Give players the chance to set up battles, maybe each player gets a certain amount of credits to spend on the ships that make up their fleet (like TABS), and then fight it out. It would be a great way to help balance ship costs with effectiveness.

Multiplayer in terms of the wider universe would be fun with a limited co-op mode where we can both help manage an empire, or where two players could both be at the heads of competing empires. If we could have such a things without losing current X4 game mechanics, that would be great! It would cost money, but I think it would be well received by many, and rejected by those X veterans who have spent far too much time defending X games as single player only.

[Alan Phipps]

I really don't know how many times dev CBJ has to respond to those very suggestions in this thread. Read here. Please read the entire post to be best informed. (Also, yes I know that some of you are agreeing with what CBJ has said. )

[chew-ie]

I really don't know how many times dev CBJ has to respond to those very suggestions in this thread. Read here.

As reality shows us [everywhere] people just have to ask. There is a reason why first level support is necessary

You could try creating a X4 FAQ / Dev citation page on certain "important" topics [which is not hosted on the forums]. Referencing that is a bit easier the combing through the forums.