Self sustaining wharf

[Kosta88]

Hello,
inspired by the video on YT, I ventured to build my biggest station yet, having everything. So I built a station with each module x5, something like 30k living space, and will give it two of each building docks. It will have really lots of storage, 2nd level will be used for storage only. I have no feeling how much I'll need, so I first made only like 5-6 of each. Probably gonna need way more.
What do I want to do? Produce masses and masses of ships... and I want it all going smooth...
It's located in Nopileos' Fortune, I hope it will be "productive".

So my question here is: how many miners do I need? Like how many at least? 100?

PS: I am so not worried about auto-traders or 5* really any more... since apparently they don't fight or fly any better, I couldn't care less lol

[Raevyan]

Well 5 of each isn’t gonna cut it for many wares. Some wares are used more than others. Sometimes even x40 modules isn’t enough to keep producing ships off of a single build module. It also depends on which ships are built and what equipment is used.
For example if you want to build for yourself and equip them with Split combat engine mk4 you’ll need a hell lot more engine parts.

http://x4-game.com/

As for miners. Just assign them and observe. If storage fills up you have enough. If they can’t keep up, assign new ones.

[Matthew94]

If you have the money for a wharf then just buy a few dozen miners and assign them to the station. Once I get into the billions of cash I built 50 or 100 of whatever just because I can.

[pref]

Depends if you need for own use or want to sell ships, and if yes, how many factions you want to feed with ships.
If you only build for yourself then it also matters what kind of ships you plan to build, and how many ships / hour because different classes have pretty different resource needs.

I had one big plex chain that fed all the universe initially (~30x hull, weapon components, advanced electrocnics, 20x engine, ~10x rest) but then due to the choices i made in the plot it became insufficient. So i added now another 20 hull, 12 smart chips, advanced electronics, weapon components some shield production.

Think i had about 60 L miners initially, and with the new plex i'm adding another 20. Can't say what is the optimal value as the miners are a bit messed up, gas ones only gather H due to some bugs for example.

I recommend using the above linked station calculator for initial planning, then in logical overview you can see the consumption/h for each module so you can get a idea of necessary cargo and storage from that.
Also consider the workforce when using the calculator, for quite some hours you will have below optimal workforce so adjust the slider and check the supply chain without any workforce if you don't want downtime due to missing wares while you gather your workers.

[Kosta88]

Well 5 of each isn’t gonna cut it for many wares. Some wares are used more than others. Sometimes even x40 modules isn’t enough to keep producing ships off of a single build module. It also depends on which ships are built and what equipment is used.
For example if you want to build for yourself and equip them with Split combat engine mk4 you’ll need a hell lot more engine parts.

http://x4-game.com/

As for miners. Just assign them and observe. If storage fills up you have enough. If they can’t keep up, assign new ones.

It's just with what I started, I left space enough to build any of those 3 times over, and if needed, I have other levels.
The money is currently not problem, I was at 2bil, bought bunch of stuff, went to 100mil, and now back at 500mil already... money is flowing in, already the 2nd wharf is producing like crazy...

[Kosta88]

Depends if you need for own use or want to sell ships, and if yes, how many factions you want to feed with ships.
If you only build for yourself then it also matters what kind of ships you plan to build, and how many ships / hour because different classes have pretty different resource needs.

I had one big plex chain that fed all the universe initially (~30x hull, weapon components, advanced electrocnics, 20x engine, ~10x rest) but then due to the choices i made in the plot it became insufficient. So i added now another 20 hull, 12 smart chips, advanced electronics, weapon components some shield production.

Think i had about 60 L miners initially, and with the new plex i'm adding another 20. Can't say what is the optimal value as the miners are a bit messed up, gas ones only gather H due to some bugs for example.

I recommend using the above linked station calculator for initial planning, then in logical overview you can see the consumption/h for each module so you can get a idea of necessary cargo and storage from that.
Also consider the workforce when using the calculator, for quite some hours you will have below optimal workforce so adjust the slider and check the supply chain without any workforce if you don't want downtime due to missing wares while you gather your workers.

I've already been playing with that calc a lot, but didn't get into calculating consumption. I just went on and built and see where logical view gets me really.

[pref]

didn't get into calculating consumption.

That's the point, the calculator will add all the required supply modules with a single button click.

[Kosta88]

OK, I'll check that out. Only did it with habitat modules.

[alt3rn1ty]

I just did a couple of each resource module (literally 2) to satisfy having more output than consumption (as noted on the drop downs in the logical view).
Haven't seen a need to have as many as five of any module yet.
Habitats also produce enough to run the station at 100% plus a few hundred more excess for crews.
Couple of luxury docks, and one three pier dock
I have 4 Boas in case demand gets a bit overwhelming, but mostly they get used for trading excess resources.
And 4 Alligator Miners (2 Mineral, 2 Gas) to gather all the basic gas/ore/ice for the modules.
30 Repair drones, 100 Cargo drones, 150 Build drones and I think 100 fight drones.

The above supports just one S/M Fab on my First Wharf quite well, it produces anything I want quite quickly aswell as keeping up other factions orders, and dumps 400 million in my main credit account every couple of hours. I am in the process of making a second Wharf ( just finishing the Dukes needy missions first so that process slowed down a bit, but while that is happening I have made my Wharf into a well defended turret hedgehog ).

I did the same for a Shipyard with 1 XL and 1 L Fab, and dont seem to be having any bottlenecks yet.
Both stations probably need a few more modules, but honestly I cant see much being needed on top of what I have so far.

Maybe I am getting this a bit wrong and they could be more efficient (haven't looked at any calculators, just used the Logical view to make sure I produce more than what is consumed in the next module in line), but both Shipyard and Wharf seem to be doing everything I want them to, and storage of each type I have just steadily expanded until I am averaging on the station information never being quite full.

[Alm888]

A self-sufficient wharf is a bad idea, IMO.

1. a station is being built by a single CV, module after module. With 30 working drones max some modules will take >20 minutes to be constructed, so the "mega station" will take too long to be built. By assembling 5-10 individual stations simultaneously effectively one speeds up the construction process 5-10 times;
2. it is difficult to balance consumption of different wares, so, inevitably some production lines of the "mega station" will idle due to overproduction, which reduces the profitssss. By constructing independent highly-focused stations one can balance-out ware distribution (especially by utilizing a distribution network of trading stations);
3. there are few places where all the required resources are available, so one can experience difficulties supplying the "mega station" with raw materials ("Second Contact II Flashpoint" is probably the best place to place a "mega station", but that limits its customers to ARG, ANT and HOP);
4. one "mega station" is too rigid if one want to use it as a lever to shift the balance: a mega-shipyard in "Nopileos Fortune II" is useless if one wants to support ZYA or ARG: all of the ships built will just "dissipate" into space, being picked out one-by-one by ARG or HOP (respectively), or will just suicide into XEN space. By utilizing a network of dedicated Wharves/Shipyards in different factions' domains, supplied by independent production stations, one can balance Galaxy powers, dynamically strengthening factions of choice (this won't be easy, though, once boosted, HOP is extremely hard to counter, even with player's production support due to general impotence of ARG and PAR fleets).

Also, IMO, "Nopileos Fortune II" is not that great of a place for a station. Sure, it is initially un-owned, so one can get oneself a free sector, but it is also a home to some SCA stations and is generally too secluded, which limits its potential to "project power".
It is generally better to evict ARG from "Black Hole Sun" (a system they do not know what to do with ) and make it a base (for the ease of ARG/HOP war control and close proximity of SCII), or "Silent Witness I" (placed on the ring, has "Eighteen Billion" nearby for Methane), relatively safe from XEN (provided "Hatikva's Choice I" did not fell victim to XEN), or close to XEN space (if HCI did fell victim ), which opens up the opportunity to supply ARG's (futile) war against XEN and make some profitsss.

[Kosta88]

Yep it takes 1-2 days on SETA to build it, apparently - not really bothered by that...
Right now I just want a big cash cow - and just interested how it'll work.
And then do some fighting... big style.

After all that, I will start a new game, which will go a direction of multiple stations and supply networks.

Call this getting to know X4.

But I will say I see one very large advantage: currently I know no better way than to transfer money from each station into my account manually. Having more stations means doing this over and over again. One wharf. Once. Millions... Billions...

[Raevyan]

Yep it takes 1-2 days on SETA to build it, apparently - not really bothered by that...
Right now I just want a big cash cow - and just interested how it'll work.
And then do some fighting... big style.

After all that, I will start a new game, which will go a direction of multiple stations and supply networks.

Call this getting to know X4.

But I will say I see one very large advantage: currently I know no better way than to transfer money from each station into my account manually. Having more stations means doing this over and over again. One wharf. Once. Millions... Billions...

Managers transfer credits automatically to your account. There is no need to manually do that. Give a manager a budget. If he doubles his budget you’ll get like 2/3 of the surplus transferred to your account (something like that, don’t count me on exact numbers)