I am very dissapointed by 4.0 beta

[mr.WHO]

Comparing to 3.0 there is almost nothing significant or groundbreaking.


3.0 added better general fleet assignments and 4.0 only has coordinated attack.
3.0 added much better station logistic screen, while 4.0 adds only minor GUI tweaks (ballance chart being the biggest).
3.0 added Large turrets rebalance, GFX and sound...4.0 change nothing (was hoping for medium turrets and missile overhaul).
3.0 added improvement to missile rearming, 4.0 only add (nice) missile retention for saved config, but do not adress tiny cargo holds for logistic ships/carrier, nor adress that assigned traders do not dock/follow them when idle (not to mention carrier doesn't have traders at all keeping their resupply a chore).
3.0 added new ships...4.0 adds nothing.
3.0 added new weapons and turrets...4.0 adds nothing (I'm still salty that Split doesn't use their unique weapons on their medium turrets).

Seems that only bigger things in 4.0 are:
- finally started to fill the Encyclopedia (still far from complete)
- fog - probably something I'll turn off to save FPS.


last but not least - copy/paste stats are still there - I bet when Terran DLC will be release their fighters will have same 20 missile hold like every single other fighter in galaxy.
Not having more ships would be less an issue if not the fact that all ships within size class use the same stats for missiles, deployables, flares, S/M internal capacity (bar Raptor) and drone capacity.

[Falcrack]

I have the impression that a number of features that will ultimately be in 4.0 are not yet introduced in the current beta. For example, an expanded ventures system, and terraforming.

[xant]

I hope you're aware that the beta will get more updates down the line?

This part is from the announcement:

"This is just the first of several public beta updates for 4.00 [...]. These updates will introduce additional fixes and new features, including the Terraforming gameplay"

It may not be what you specifically hoped for, but I wouldn't use your wording of 'almost nothing significant or groundbreaking'. Wait and see and complain later I'd say.

[Tamina]

Beta 4.0 was just opened to the public and is going to be in development until somewhere in Q1 2021. Could be a few months. So there is lots of room to develop. Some players have already discovered traces of still unannounced features in Beta 1.

Btw. Beta 3.0 was in development for a couple of months, as well, and got gradually extended over time.

[Axeface]

3.0 added Large turrets rebalance, GFX and sound...4.0 change nothing (was hoping for medium turrets and missile overhaul).

Perhaps im imagining it, but 4.0 looks better than 3.0? I think there has been shader improvements among other things, not just the fog? Correct me if im wrong.

[mr.WHO]

Btw. Beta 3.0 was in development for a couple of months, as well, and got gradually extended over time.

I hope, but 3.0 main features were introduced rather early (like Beta 2 or 3).

"This is just the first of several public beta updates for 4.00 [...]. These updates will introduce additional fixes and new features, including the Terraforming gameplay"

Terraforming seems like a decoration as Egosoft stated they don't have idea what to do with it other than background change.
I welcome it as a late game sink, but lets be honest - it's nothing huge.

[CBJ]

...Egosoft stated they don't have idea what to do with it other than background change.

Please stop making things up.

[Alm888]

Personally I hope for addition of the ability to hire a minesweeper because it is rather dull to own a system (Faulty Logic) and not being able to clean it up.

[Lord Crc]

Terraforming seems like a decoration as Egosoft stated they don't have idea what to do with it other than background change.

I mean they've already introduced a game mechanic around it, so clearly they have some idea.

[mr.WHO]

...Egosoft stated they don't have idea what to do with it other than background change.

Please stop making things up.

This was said during live streams by Bernd and the other guy.
I hope this changed since then, but nothing has been annouced sicne then.

[Imperial Good]

From what I can tell many of the 4.00 features might still be WIP. For example people are reporting that in 4.00 there is data relating to terraforming and other new features that are currently unused. If one assumes 4.00 will release along with Cradle of Humanity then there are at least 2-3 months more of changes and features to be made to it.

If 4.00 launches without Cradle of Humanity then it may have its feature set reduced. In such a case it would be more of an interim/incremental patch than 3.00 was.

[mr.WHO]

From what I can tell many of the 4.00 features might still be WIP. For example people are reporting that in 4.00 there is data relating to terraforming and other new features that are currently unused.


If 4.00 launches without Cradle of Humanity then it may have its feature set reduced. In such a case it would be more of an interim/incremental patch than 3.00 was.

Unused code is not reliable data.
There is a 3.0 code for Split Python battleship as well as rudimentary model, but it has been dropped for Raptor.

Edit: Actually, if you look careful, you will see Python on first trailer of SV



I must add that 3.0 overall, set the bar rather high, but even then 4.0 so far feels more like interim patch.

[CBJ]

This was said during live streams by Bernd and the other guy.

No, they did not say that we don't have any ideas what to do with it.

These updates will introduce additional fixes and new features, including the Terraforming gameplay that was mentioned during our gamescom 2020 live-stream.

I really don't know which part of this isn't clear.

If you're "disappointed" then that's up to you, but stop trying to tell people that there is nothing else to it and that we don't have anything else planned.

[mr.WHO]

This was said during live streams by Bernd and the other guy.

No, they did not say that we don't have any ideas what to do with it.

OK, I wasn't specific. I meant the Terraforming effect/impact/benefit on the universe.
That, what was Bernd response during live streams and Reddit AMA.

[Tamina]

I have to agree with Mr.Who in that Terraforming, from what I have seen being said by Egosoft so far, is nothing I am waiting for at all. What has been communicated to me as a player is "It is a massive ressource sink in form of pre-set missions, with nearly no value return to the player". Maybe I am wrong and have overseen something then please tell me so.

And since it is going to be pre-set missions for pre-set planets, it is not even like players can change the appearance of their universe to their liking as a pride-thing or something. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe there is more to it. I am just not waiting for it because I see absolutly no relevance Then again, I saw no relevance in volumetric fog and here I am... starring at those beautiful blue nebulas with my glistening eyes in amazement.

[Alan Phipps]

"I meant the Terraforming effect/impact/benefit on the universe." Isn't that more about gameplay balance for the feature rather than the purpose of the feature? Of course you would need the feature to be available before the devs can try to balance it in-game, whether internally or via public beta.

There would be similar pre-testing balance concerns and unpredictabilities about the introduction of a new powerful warship too, but I think that everyone would probably know the purpose of a new big warship.

[Buzz2005]

with nearly no value return to the player"

as I remember it was financial value that was talked about, might be wrong, but I doubt this is just texture change

[mr.WHO]

I saw no relevance in volumetric fog and here I am... starring at those beautiful blue nebulas with my glistering eyes in amazement.

Still there is a performance impact (thank god you can switch it off).
I'm big Empire + big Fleets player, so every single FPS counts for me.
It's sad, but for me, the best fog/nebula was in Freespace 2 - this game is over 20 years old, but even today the nebula missions looks great (despite the fact that "nebula" effect was 2D instead of volumetric) and didn't hurt FPS even back then.
I remember that Freelancer also had decent nebulas that didn't affected the performance.

Best looking isn't automatically the best, especially for any X-series game where both CPU and GPU already have plenty of other things to do.

[Raevyan]

I highly doubt that there will be an awful lot of new things coming with 4.0 that’s not currently in the beta. Some of the new feature in the beta also look pretty early and far from finished.
I mean they announced Cradle in their written announcement it would come this year, yet Bernd pretty much said in the interview they are far away from being able to release it. Looking back at Split DLC there were a lot of things that weren’t working.

For me, personally, I somewhat share the OP‘s feelings. Reading through the patch notes there are a lot of fixes, which after 2 years, is somewhat questionable. Don’t get me wrong it’s great that they are supporting the game this much and I do appreciated that with my >1.100hrs/played. Personally I had hoped for more changes to traders, much needed AI improvements (traders, factions, fleet), proper fleet management, more challenges etc. I don’t care about 10 new features if they would finally address the major flaws we have in the game since 1.0 and polish the features that are already there.

[Falcrack]

I have to agree with Mr.Who in that Terraforming, from what I have seen being said by Egosoft so far, is nothing I am waiting for at all. What has been communicated to me as a player is "It is a massive ressource sink in form of pre-set missions, with nearly no value return to the player". Maybe I am wrong and have overseen something then please tell me so.

And since it is going to be pre-set missions for pre-set planets, it is not even like players can change the appearance of their universe to their liking as a pride-thing or something. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe there is more to it. I am just not waiting for it because I see absolutly no relevance Then again, I saw no relevance in volumetric fog and here I am... starring at those beautiful blue nebulas with my glistening eyes in amazement.

From what I can gather, terraforming will increase the sector population. One of the changes with 4.0 is that workforce accumulation rate now appears to be tied to local sector population. So stations built in unpopulated sectors will have next to no chance to accumulate workforce.

This may not have much of an impact in a game where stations operate at 100% efficiency even with no workforce, and only ~125% efficiency with full workforce. But if there were changes also made which made workforce far more important, for example making production speed dependent on workers (0% workforce = 0% production speed, 50% workforce = 50% production speed, etc), then terraforming would indeed have a massive impact on gameplay.

I would want to take it one step further, and make it so that the total amount of available workforce per sector is capped at a certain level, dependent upon the sector population, which could be increased by terraforming. But that is just my own preference, which may not be shared by others. Hopefully even if Egosoft does not want such a change, a modder would be able to do so. I lack any sort of modding skills to make it happen!