The current crew system is flawed to the core

[Warnoise]

First of all, what I am about to say is my personal opinion.

I think the current crew system is very flawed and offers nothing gameplay wise other than extra frustration and artificial time wasting.

While the concept itself seems great on paper, it simply doesn't work for combat scenarios.

Having a lvl 1 captain is a death sentence and considering you will end up with dozens or even 100+ cap ships in the late game, good luck leveling everyone up.

Currently a lvl 1 captain piloting an L ship is something laughable. When I see him turning around and randomly firing its main guns because of "moral", I wonder if the Devs ever properly envision this before implementing it in the game. Because, it simply doesn't make sense gameplay wise and even logic wise.

How do you implement a moral system when the game doesn't even have a "moral gauge" or something that helps the player to understand what is happening? A crew with lvl 1 moral is basically a perma debuff that simply ruins the experience of the player.

Yet, that isn't the worst thing! You see that 5 star captain which you spent hundreds of hours babysitting it? It will still derp around and die because the AI is broken! Logically considering how hard is it to get a 5 star captain, it should be a mega op monster which can bring a very visible advantage over lower level captains.

So my question is, in a situation where you are not able to make the AI work properly, why do you dig yourself even deeper by making crew levels affect the AI? Make the AI behavior work properly as intended first before adding that kind of sophisticated
feature into the game for god's sake.

If it were me I would change the captain lvl system into something more simple to manage like +% range advantage or turn speed or some simple other number change.

I simply can't play without mods that either drastically accelerate passive crew leveling or make all crews of the universe max level
because this system is simply boring and ruins my experience with the game.

[chew-ie]

To me, the only "problem" is that newcomers aren't told the consequences of using untrained crew on their critical ships (those who get in touch with enemies).

By using seminars, I bring all my fleet leaders up to 2.5 stars and only make those captain with a morale value > 2. While these guys still have no practical experience and can still be considered rookies they get patrol duty in critical systems with an oversized fleet. (e.g. two destroyer groups with 6 ships each to hold one gate free of Xenon - every I & K patrol will be wiped and my crew levels up -> profit)

Someday we also need to overcome the urge of some people to need masses of autotraders. This is a remnant of a X3 gameplay strategy which is no longer needed as money is earned differently in X4. IMHO Egosoft should just remove it and promote more the new mechanics: station manager manages traders (profits) and automated ware distribution (supports npc economy). "Unitraders" are a thing of the past.

Also, there will be changes in 4.0 / the future (MY GUESS) as some dataminers uncovered some evidence for additional crew training mechanics.

[jlehtone]

You make title "crew system" and then talk only about pilots?
What about Service crew, Marines, Managers, etc?

What do I gain by adding anything but the captain to a Shuyaku?

[grapedog]

Someday we also need to overcome the urge of some people to need masses of autotraders. This is a remnant of a X3 gameplay strategy which is no longer needed as money is earned differently in X4. IMHO Egosoft should just remove it and promote more the new mechanics: station manager manages traders (profits) and automated ware distribution (supports npc economy). "Unitraders" are a thing of the past.

Ive been saying the same thing for mamy many months now. X4 is not X3, and the autotraders being the backbone of the economy is not needed in x4. When i am at the empire stages, and have 1000+ ships, maybe 15-20 are auto trading, and about another 20 are automated miners. I make very little money from them, but i keep them around to just fill in any little gaps that may appear, and i pull from them to replace lost station ships. Auto miners and distribute wares freighters is how i get started, but once i start getting my basic factories online... they very quickly become obsolete.

My only concern is this, what if someone wanted to just run a trading empire without building any factories. I feel like that should be a thing that is possible, a thing that could be done, and that seems like it would be very hard to do with the current design. What that would require, to also keep it in balance with the current design goal I am not sure, but id like it to be an option down the road.

[Clownmug]

Yeah combat AI is terrible not matter what, pilot skill doesn't really help much. The passive buffs like steering speed or whatever are just placebos. Only tangible benefit is being able to use more fleet formations.

[grapedog]

Yeah combat AI is terrible not matter what, pilot skill doesn't really help much. The passive buffs like steering speed or whatever are just placebos. Only tangible benefit is being able to use more fleet formations.

I notice a pretty big difference between when i first place a fleet on gate defense, and an in game day or two later, the fleet seems to perform its task quicker and with less damage taken.

[GCU Grey Area]

Yeah combat AI is terrible not matter what, pilot skill doesn't really help much. The passive buffs like steering speed or whatever are just placebos. Only tangible benefit is being able to use more fleet formations.

Disagree. Using captains with good Piloting & Morale (both are important) made a significant difference to the performance of my demolition fleets. Prior to 3.0 (i.e. functional seminars) my Destroyers without good captains would frequently go too damn close to enemy stations & get shot at. They were also much more twitchy & would often fire only a couple of shots before repositioning. Since I've been able to train them properly (i.e. post-3.0) they've been MUCH better at staying at optimal range for main guns, fire much more consistently & rarely take any return fire at all.

[zakaluka]

Since I've been able to train them properly (i.e. post-3.0) they've been MUCH better at staying at optimal range for main guns, fire much more consistently & rarely take any return fire at all.

But since 3.0 also destroyers can't seem to aim & hit a station, they pitch & yaw constantly sending shots from main battery flying wildly & missing.
In sector, anyway. Destroyers must needs to be in low attention to contribute to a fight.

[GCU Grey Area]

But since 3.0 also destroyers can't seem to aim & hit a station, they pitch & yaw constantly sending shots from main battery flying wildly & missing.
In sector, anyway. Destroyers must needs to be in low attention to contribute to a fight.

Destroyers in my game are working fine, wouldn't use them if they didn't. They're certainly performing MUCH better than they were before 3.0, when it was difficult to find competent captains for them. By the way I only use my fleet in IS battles & always stay close to them - don't want to miss out on the fireworks. Not interested in OOS battles at all. Watching different coloured icons on the map "fight" isn't nearly as much fun as being directly involved in this sort of stuff:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5zsyygel1083f ... 1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1zv6ga9fhc0r4 ... 1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9qk5cwkgjx3lx ... 1.jpg?dl=0