Please fix ZYA strength.

[sh1pman]

I had an impression that ZYA was supposed to be the powerful and menacing Split faction, crushing their opposition with ease. However, in every new game I saw them almost immediately getting their rear kicked by Xenon from two directions, losing their only resource-rich sector and just collapsing economically and militarily. Happens all the time, and my game isn’t modded. I don’t think they should fall apart this easily and without any player input. Has this been the case in your saves?

[xant]

They lose territory because there's no faction that can withstand the output of two Xenon Wharfs and Shipyards from two directions while engaged in war with another faction. On gamestart they burn a huge part of their fleet against the Argons (and vice versa), weakening them in the process. Their economy can't keep up to replace the losses; even with help from the player it is an uphill battle.

But once they regained their strength, they usually kick the Xenon out.

All in all I wouldn't change anything about it. With CoH a new faction makes their entry, so the Xenon will come under attack more than ever before (and the Terrans are likely the most powerful race among the playable ones). So ZYA will have an easier time.
Another reason is that I like to claim Family Zhin for myself. It is hard work, but rewarding: Family Zhin has every resource in abundance, everything is there but ice. And just one jump away to the north you get as much ice as you need. Those sectors are ideal for huge mega-factories. Not far from the highway either.

So it is ok the way it is I think.

[grapedog]

I had an impression that ZYA was supposed to be the powerful and menacing Split faction, crushing their opposition with ease. However, in every new game I saw them almost immediately getting their rear kicked by Xenon from two directions, losing their only resource-rich sector and just collapsing economically and militarily. Happens all the time, and my game isn’t modded. I don’t think they should fall apart this easily and without any player input. Has this been the case in your saves?

ZYA is strong, if they don't lose both of their resource rich areas quickly, which are both right next to xenon, which they usually lose quickly. They are in a pretty bad spot. Doing a ZYA playthrough, i spent a large portion of the early and mid game defending them from xenon. Once you stabalize them however, the OPness of their ships versus the other factions gives them a decided advantage.

[Lord Crc]

Doing the Fires of Victory start it was rather rewarding helping ZYA withstand the Xenon and Argon incursions, and getting them back into glory.

At some point it looked rather grim with Xenon doing serious damage to Zhin, and Argon almost taking over Zyarth's Dominion X. But together we fought them back!

[Seon]

I feel like it's been the opposite for me... My ZYA has had no troubles defending themselves. I've seen a few incursions come in (though, they haven't been anything grand) and get stopped by either a ZYA Raptor, or a patrol of about 4 or so Rattlesnakes that they have moving around. On one side, it's a little disappointing because the Xenon don't feel like a massive threat in my current game. My game has felt so tame and peaceful.

[GCU Grey Area]

Think ZYA are a bit over-extended at the start of a new game, due to the need to police FRF territory. Particularly so if someone keeps stealing their ships. Only way (without befriending ZYA or completing the Split plot) a player can obtain Chimeras, Cobras, non-Raider Dragons, etc. Certainly noticed in my game that after the plot (resolved in favour of FRF & CUB), when RHA took over ZYA sectors, they sent far fewer ships into FRF/CUB territory. RHA were therefore much better able to defend their own sectors, retake some that were lost & even expand into adjacent ARG sectors. Could be risky to give them more power in the early game, might make them absolute monsters in the mid-late game.

Also, having recently started a new game as ZYA, rather looking forward to the challenge of assisting with the defence of ZYA territory. Would be a shame if the game were changed such that my help was no longer relevant.

[sh1pman]

By the time I get a wharf, ZYA is usually in a sorry state already, having lost half of their territory or more (most importantly, Family Zhin). I get it that the game expects me to help them survive, but there are other galactic disasters that need my intervention! Xenon are destroying TEL and ARG, HOP is destroying everyone else, and I'm just one guy! You'd expect ZYA of all factions to be at least semi-competent and not lose so badly and so early. Maybe there should be more resources in their core sectors.

[sware]

In my game ZYA is pretty stable, Family Zhin is a little bit deserted but it's getting populated again after I placed a defence station at the north gate. But i took out a lot of K's and a few I's in a grind.
The main problem I see, is that they are not using their resources (ships) to good. They sent a lot of destroyers into Matrix 598 and burn them. On the other hand they just camp the gates to the Argon exclave (eleventh hour) and don't push into their space, even if there are no more defences.
TEL on the other hand are the military overlord in my game, dozens of destroyers roaming around TEL, ARG, ZYA and FRF space. They took out the xenon in matrix 451 and are pushing into matrix 9.
I don't know what they do differently, but they are pretty successfull.

[NightmareNight91]

In my latest game I decided to ally with Zyarth, started the paranid start. They have lost family kritt and zyarths dominion 1. They would have lost everything by now but I have 2 defence platforms blcoking both gates from zyarths dominion 1 and a captured fleet of 10 destroyers (from pirates) and a monitor ''donated'' by free families. As long as I help with the K's and I's this setup has allowed me to help them maintain all sectors between there 2 wharfs. Sadly, they are now fighting xenon on 3 fronts, teladi got stomped and xenon pour in from there direction. I almost have a wharf, my plan is to teleport my HQ/wharf on top of the xenon defence station guarding the gate (citadel of ricks style) to there 2 sectors up north. I can then focus on building factories that will supply the ZYA shipyard, they havent been able to build a single rattlesnake in some time.

[Axeface]

In my game ZYA lost a lot of sectors but once they were pushed back to about 3 they just keep holding on despite the argon and the xenon all hitting them hard. I have also noticed that they have to send ships to patrol FRF space, weakening their position a bit. Im not sure they need strenghening as like I said they are holding on fine despite losing a lot of sectors. There is also a lot of randomness, people here reporting that teladi are losing to the xenon etc, in my game the teladi have actually gained sectors not lost them, and have lots of fleets that routinely knock back xenon incursions - same for ANT, they won against xenon and hop and in fact are attacking hop space now.

[sh1pman]

In my latest game I decided to ally with Zyarth, started the paranid start. They have lost family kritt and zyarths dominion 1. They would have lost everything by now but I have 2 defence platforms blcoking both gates from zyarths dominion 1 and a captured fleet of 10 destroyers (from pirates) and a monitor ''donated'' by free families. As long as I help with the K's and I's this setup has allowed me to help them maintain all sectors between there 2 wharfs. Sadly, they are now fighting xenon on 3 fronts, teladi got stomped and xenon pour in from there direction. I almost have a wharf, my plan is to teleport my HQ/wharf on top of the xenon defence station guarding the gate (citadel of ricks style) to there 2 sectors up north. I can then focus on building factories that will supply the ZYA shipyard, they havent been able to build a single rattlesnake in some time.

Yeah, that's what I'm seeing as well. Once they lose family Zhin to Xenon, their shipyard in Zyarths Dominion stops working and everything falls apart.

[Clownmug]

All glory to the gravitron turret destroyer of worlds.

[GCU Grey Area]

Yeah, that's what I'm seeing as well. Once they lose family Zhin to Xenon, their shipyard in Zyarths Dominion stops working and everything falls apart.

Guess it's one of those situations where every game can be different. In my last game, although ZYA lost several sectors to the Xenon, they never came close to everything falling apart. They were still trading & sending mining ships out, saw them frequently in TEL sectors. ZYA shipyard continued in operation & they kept control of their core sectors. They also built quite a lot of new stations (at least a couple of dozen) in the 3 Zyarth's Dominion sectors, presumably because there wasn't anywhere else for them to build. Xenon did some damage but at no point were ZYA even remotely close to being wiped out.

[sh1pman]

Guess it's one of those situations where every game can be different. In my last game, although ZYA lost several sectors to the Xenon, they never came close to everything falling apart. They were still trading & sending mining ships out, saw them frequently in TEL sectors. ZYA shipyard continued in operation & they kept control of their core sectors. They also built quite a lot of new stations (at least a couple of dozen) in the 3 Zyarth's Dominion sectors, presumably because there wasn't anywhere else for them to build. Xenon did some damage but at no point were ZYA even remotely close to being wiped out.

Interestingly, they placed a ton of station plots, at least 40, in every Zyarths Dominion sector, but most of them were never built. They can’t make hull parts because Xenon took all the ore in Family Zhin! I’m not even sure if they have enough hull parts to replace the miners that get blown up! God, the AI is dumb. One more ore patch and one silicon patch in Zyarths Dominion IV would solve most of this nonsense.

[Waltz99]

I think its easy to note that ZYA don't have the basic resources to mine from. Only one sector to do so and its not much.
Also I never spot much traffic inside the ZYA sectors. There is trafic but really not much.
This results in ZYA being very weak to defend.
I do think if they just had more resources and miners there economy will be good enough to at least defend themselves.

[GCU Grey Area]

Interestingly, they placed a ton of station plots, at least 40, in every Zyarths Dominion sector, but most of them were never built. They can’t make hull parts because Xenon took all the ore in Family Zhin! I’m not even sure if they have enough hull parts to replace the miners that get blown up! God, the AI is dumb. One more ore patch and one silicon patch in Zyarths Dominion IV would solve most of this nonsense.

Yeah, similar number here (was low on my earlier estimate), but they did actually build them in my game:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mw89xtgo4kb4f ... 1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mz9udwqrzlx5 ... 1.jpg?dl=0
Small stations, but fully functional with all the essentials (i.e. docking, storage & production).
Wonder if difference might be in how TEL performed? You mentioned in an earlier post they were also destroyed in your game, whereas in mine they were my 2nd most expansionist faction (after HOP) & were thriving by the end of the game. Perhaps my ZYA were buying in resources & ship/station building components from TEL & other friendly factions?

[sh1pman]

Small stations, but fully functional with all the essentials (i.e. docking, storage & production).
Wonder if difference might be in how TEL performed? You mentioned in an earlier post they were also destroyed in your game, whereas in mine they were my 2nd most expansionist faction (after HOP) & were thriving by the end of the game. Perhaps my ZYA were buying in resources & ship/station building components from TEL & other friendly factions?

Well, in the current save Teladi were doing OK until HOP broke through Trinity Sanctum, so they ended up in a war on 3 fronts (Bright Promise vs. HOP and Ianamus Zura and Hewa’s Twin vs. Xenon). Therefore, it’s unsurprising that they have little if any extra resources to support ZYA.

[GCU Grey Area]

Well, in the current save Teladi were doing OK until HOP broke through Trinity Sanctum, so they ended up in a war on 3 fronts (Bright Promise vs. HOP and Ianamus Zura and Hewa’s Twin vs. Xenon). Therefore, it’s unsurprising that they have little if any extra resources to support ZYA.

Fascinating. Think I have now a viable hypothesis for the difference. Spent a fair amount of time in my game building heavily armed defence platforms for PAR, specifically to slow down HOP expansion in their direction (incidentally also did the same for ARG & ANT). At one point HOP took all of Pious Mists & Sacred Relic, but managed to hold them back at Unholy Retribution with a couple of these:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fgqhdg7ggjavn ... 1.jpg?dl=0
Do find it interesting that one of the unintended consequences of that might have been that it prevented a war between HOP & TEL, which it turn meant TEL were better able to help ZYA survive & rebuild.

[sh1pman]

Do find it interesting that one of the unintended consequences of that might have been that it prevented a war between HOP & TEL, which it turn meant TEL were better able to help ZYA survive & rebuild.

Yes, that’s likely the real reason why ZYA can so badly underperform. Few resources at home + strategically important resource sectors that can be quickly captured by XEN + strong HOP pressuring their only ally TEL and denying their resource support to ZYA. Researching geopolitics in X4 is fun!

[oddible]

The game plays out based on the tradeoffs you make. I didn't buy a wharf, I still don't have a wharf, I spent the money that I could have spent on a wharf and bought an Odysseus and poked Ks until I got the FRF and Ianamus Zura stabilized. By the time I got to 3 Odys I had the Xenon pushed back in ZYA too. When I had 5 Odys I went on the offensive and took back Family Tkr, then I cleared the Xenon out of Rhy's Defiance and Matrix #598 completely. This stabilized ZYA considerably. I've captured enough Behemoths from the Argon to now have 2 fleets - one for FRF space and one for ZYA space. I've got Defense Stations at the gate in Family Zhin and Family Tkr. I'm starting to use the Argon's Behemoths against them and taking Guiding Star. All of this with NO WHARF!

The player has impact but you have to prioritize what you want. It is up to you, you can spend that money on the wharf but don't complain that the universe has gone to hell. You just chose a tradeoff that prioritized your income over universe stability! Stop playing a formula - sure, getting to a wharf and shipyard means you make money super fast, but play the game based on what is happening on the map - respond to the situation and react in a way that gets you the results you want. It is the tradeoffs in this game that are interesting! The wharf will come!

Also, never use SETA then complain that the universe went to crap, you were asleep lol!