Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

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What element of the game should be no.1 priority in developpement, before all the other?

Improving the "quality of life" design in game. (ex.: Better npc ai, more complex and detailed player ai command, fleet managing, etc...).
70
36%
Adding new game mechanic (ex.:Diplomacy system, stock market (like x3), new and improved piracy system, etc...).
17
9%
Improving the actual game mechanic (ex.:Faction war, exploration, dynamic economy,etc...).
36
18%
Graphical overhaul of the current ingame asset (ex.: more detailed ship/station/sector/npc animation, sound, etc...).
15
8%
More game stability and bug fixing.
5
3%
Adding even more content. (ship/system/faction)
26
13%
Better and more dynamic mission system.
7
4%
None of the above, cause mine's not in the list.
16
8%
I dont have an opinion, cause i dont care anymore about this game.
4
2%
 
Total votes: 196

warjager
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Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by warjager » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 00:44

Hi guys and gal! I've started this post because i was very curious about what the whole X4 community was thinking, about the direction Egosoft is taking, with the x4 development. I got my own opinion about the game , and what we were given by the dev team, since the official launch.

I was thinking to myself today, while playing x4: "hummm,im pretty sure other player have the same opinion about this designing choice as i am cause it's soooo anoying and not fun!!" .... and i realised suddently that, maybe it's just me, and other people who play x4, just dont find that element of the game so bad.

I know that we all have our own opinion about this game, and that's fine. But i just wanted to know if i'm the only one, who believe that Egosoft lost their focus on the X serie and is slowly drifting away from what made this serie a classic?

First and foremost, this post is not to flame Egosoft in any way, and i humbly ask people who will post here to not flame them neither! If you have a comment, please write it so it is a constructive critisism instead of a direct attack to the dev.

All of the above sed, let's now get to the meat of the subject!

From my own perception and from a couple hundred hour played since the release, i could now have a clear and large picture of what's in "the product". Personally, i came from the very first game of the serie (yep! im an old fart! :) ) and i liked it. But it's just after the release of X-tension that i totally became a fan of the X game. I was until X3 Albion Prelude. Something changed in the core mentality of Egosoft between X3AP and X:R.

I cannot tell what , but from my point of view, it just felt like an old grandpa, who think that he is not cool anymore, and decide to change his clothing, personnality, and attitude, to be like the young one, and be again the cool one ... but everybody who have known him, miss the sweet old grandpa that everybody loved and was known for.

That's how i perceive the serie from X:R. Yea, some cool thing where added that i loved like independent shield, turret and engine that are targetable and a more visually impressive map.... buuutt that's it! Since then, i was always like "aww man, give them time, they will add X or Y thing to the game, they always do..." but sadly, that never happened. They choosed to invest in a REAL economy simulation.... but personally, ive dont seen what was the benefit from it gameplay wise! In X3, i didnt care about the technical aspect of it, it just FELT like i was in the middle of a livable word. I didnt needed a real economy.... because i roleplayed it! That's what a GAME is and should be, that you FEEL like your part of it. I personally think that investing so much time in developpement of this system was a mistake, cause every other part of the whole is missing badly. But that.... it's my own personal opinion.

From all that, my opinion of what should be the no.1 priority for the developpement team to focus on is what their already have and should improve BEFORE anything else. There focusing right now on ADDING more and more content (more ship,race,sector...), and leave the rest bare and empty! Sure they add some little tiny weeiny piece here and there, but they just add more of the emptyness they created. Mission a boring and repetitive and doesnt really link with the dynamic universe at all (what i was expecting the most they do with their new dynamic universe). Like military mission of one faction should automaticly make you ennemy with their ennemy! Yea, im in the Argon navy and police, but im friend with HOP! doesnt make sense! Its ok if youre a trader, but not if your the combat style (hence the mission style!).

Everywhere i look, it seem that they made everything so that you cannot loose! Easy money, easy relation, easy exploration (is there such a thing anyway at all?). Look like the game was made exclusively for the "snowflake" who want all the easy way and hate to loose. Ok maybe im a bit judgemental here, but its my opinion, and i stand by it. I dont personally care if someone want to play this game easy. It's their own way to play the game and it's ok like that. What i dont like, its i dont have a choice to play my way. No option anywhere to crank up the difficulty level. It really feel that you where more of a person in the other X game... but now you are more of an organisation that a person.

I remember back in X3, the game at the beginning of a new game was hard as hell. You really where a little nothing in a vast and dangerous world... and the more you worked your ass off, and being carefull in your choice, the more you were gratified with new toy you dreamed having in the start. Even then, you looked a the faction big military behemoth of a ship and told yourself "damm! this is a loonng way to be able to command such a impressive death machine!" and when you where there, several real time week, you where so proud to have acomplished this, cause your work all the way to there, anndd the feeling of power with such vessel where literally impressive! This feeling is gone in X4! in two day, i was able to buy a capital ship, that is, by the way, no more special cause every faction have tons of them!!! in my optinion, they are supposed to be rare cause its freaking supposed to be a capital ship!! but i just think personally that they could be ok, if we had like 2 more level of ship even bigger thant that, like XXL ship and SuperXXL class.

But where i really have the hardest time in the game is with the bare basic!!! The quality of life in the game is reallllly detrimental of the immersion! Order of ai that dont listen to you or even that you dont have perfect choice for certain situation, fleet that spread appart and dont care about what the boss sed, stupid ai that choose to die instead of living, and many more!!! All of this break the immesion that you are supposed to be in charge of your whole empire. It's like having a brand new car, but the manufacturer decided that they will not install a brake or gas pedal the first year, and instead they have invested more on the shiny new candy coat paint that made the public go wow! They told you that they will install them eventually ,a couple of year after you bought it. And with all this, we are supposed to lead a empire/corporation/mercenary clan (etc!), with little to no managing windows of any sort. The one we have is really a bare basic. You want to simulate a real economy? then give us all the spreadsheet and managing tool we need to be able to do our job. What i mean you sed? Build 200 ship and just try to manage all this, with naming, profit done and combat made!!! way too much micromanaging for such big of a world!!

Another thing. It's supposed to have a dynamic war going on around us .... but i dont feel like anything like that at all. Sure we see battle in sector we are and are not... but where is the news? where is the governement of faction speaking about it? where are the info of the loss on each side and whatnot? i dont see it at all!!

For my taste, they could work on all the thing they ALREADY have and make it abseloutely immersive in every way. Its a shame that they sed somewhere in some post ive read somewhere else, that QoL content is faaarr in the todo list! Is this because money must pay the bill and they dont have time for the real work on their game cause they must stay afloat? or just because the direction they take now is really the way they think that what gamer want? Maybe thats what the market want right now and im a dinosaur of a gamer who live with a good memory of past game. I dont really know, and thats what this post is all about!


Sorry for this long post.... think that i was too much of a fanboy back then and im sad that my past love dont grow up the way i want to! :)

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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by Slashman » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 03:46

Yeah your poll is missing the choices: I like what the devs are doing and want to see more of it. Or I'm satisfied with where the game is going right now.
That's how i perceive the serie from X:R. Yea, some cool thing where added that i loved like independent shield, turret and engine that are targetable and a more visually impressive map.... buuutt that's it! Since then, i was always like "aww man, give them time, they will add X or Y thing to the game, they always do..." but sadly, that never happened. They choosed to invest in a REAL economy simulation.... but personally, ive dont seen what was the benefit from it gameplay wise! In X3, i didnt care about the technical aspect of it, it just FELT like i was in the middle of a livable word. I didnt needed a real economy.... because i roleplayed it! That's what a GAME is and should be, that you FEEL like your part of it. I personally think that investing so much time in developpement of this system was a mistake, cause every other part of the whole is missing badly. But that.... it's my own personal opinion.
This right here is your biggest issue and unfortunately for you its something that will never change. Egosoft have been working toward a real economic simulator for the longest time and finally achieved it. Everything they add to the game will be built around this and built around NOT destroying or compromising it because some old folks feel like the series left them behind. So no...you will not get jump drives back and no...you will not get fleets spawning out of thin air for your amusement (this includes missions). What you will get is an economic system where all ships and weapons and products are produced by actual factories with a real supply and demand. Where your actions can interrupt this flow and you can use that to create an opportunity for profit. Or not. It's really up to you.

So far I think they have provided each point of their slogan: Build. Fight. Trade. Think.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

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Nort The Fragrent
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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by Nort The Fragrent » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 04:13

Think, Trade, Build, ( Fight as a last resort )
This is the preferred order.
The game is flawed, as they have the order wrong.
The map is too small,
The game is too easy,
There is little to no challenge.
Most ship’s are as ugly as hell,
There is little to no distinction between races.
It’s all too bland, same same same.
And the size of those comic book guns is absurd.

warjager
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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by warjager » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 05:09

Slashman wrote:
Thu, 3. Dec 20, 03:46
Yeah your poll is missing the choices: I like what the devs are doing and want to see more of it. Or I'm satisfied with where the game is going right now.
That's how i perceive the serie from X:R. Yea, some cool thing where added that i loved like independent shield, turret and engine that are targetable and a more visually impressive map.... buuutt that's it! Since then, i was always like "aww man, give them time, they will add X or Y thing to the game, they always do..." but sadly, that never happened. They choosed to invest in a REAL economy simulation.... but personally, ive dont seen what was the benefit from it gameplay wise! In X3, i didnt care about the technical aspect of it, it just FELT like i was in the middle of a livable word. I didnt needed a real economy.... because i roleplayed it! That's what a GAME is and should be, that you FEEL like your part of it. I personally think that investing so much time in developpement of this system was a mistake, cause every other part of the whole is missing badly. But that.... it's my own personal opinion.
This right here is your biggest issue and unfortunately for you its something that will never change. Egosoft have been working toward a real economic simulator for the longest time and finally achieved it. Everything they add to the game will be built around this and built around NOT destroying or compromising it because some old folks feel like the series left them behind. So no...you will not get jump drives back and no...you will not get fleets spawning out of thin air for your amusement (this includes missions). What you will get is an economic system where all ships and weapons and products are produced by actual factories with a real supply and demand. Where your actions can interrupt this flow and you can use that to create an opportunity for profit. Or not. It's really up to you.

So far I think they have provided each point of their slogan: Build. Fight. Trade. Think.
I"m not saying that all this simulation part is bad. It could be good to a certain point. But the fact here is that its NOT supposed to be mainly an economic simulation game set in a distant future, but a MIX of different blend of thig like a space combat sim, a trading and managing sim, a story telling space opera and a role playing game. I just sed that for me in the end, i did not see alot of difference between the fun i have in game with a simulated real economy vs a good faked one. The only thing this will create on the long term is that the dev will have less control on the quality on the storytelling they will add in the future, because their living economy could get in their way, because it is so dynamic. Dont get me wrong, i love what they achieved with this, but they will have hard time building around this much variable.

Personally, a game without some meat around a concept is dry. If you love trading thats a fine game yea, but for me, war,combat and storytelling (not just in mission) is more appealing than trading, and sadly, i think for now that is utterly missing from X4. I know that the developpement of the game is far from over yet, but i just hope for the best.

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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by rubahax4 » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 08:10

I think X4 and the next games will not be the same as X3. The only way to play it now is with remaster X3.

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grapedog
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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by grapedog » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 10:05

Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Thu, 3. Dec 20, 04:13
Think, Trade, Build, ( Fight as a last resort )
This is the preferred order.
The game is flawed, as they have the order wrong.
Your argument is flawed, as the preferred order, or no order, is determined by the player. By your logic a pirate playthrough where you don't trade or build anything is a flawed choice. Don't assume how other people choose to play this game.


Also, to the OP, there is no poll option for being happy with the current rate and/or direction of development.

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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by Gregorovitch » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 11:00

warjager wrote:
Thu, 3. Dec 20, 05:09
I just sed that for me in the end, i did not see alot of difference between the fun i have in game with a simulated real economy vs a good faked one. The only thing this will create on the long term is that the dev will have less control on the quality on the storytelling they will add in the future, because their living economy could get in their way, because it is so dynamic.
I take the precise opposite view of this. IMO the more dynamic economy makes X4 a much more interesting and lively game than X3. A big step forward. It is consistently more interesting and varied. In particular the game is much more responsive to the player's actions. The player can significantly change how the economy, and therefore political situation, develops. That is where the story telling really lies. I see this as going in the right direction.

But X4 has pre-scripted story lines too, main plot mission sequences obviously, but also background geopolitics such as the HOP situation which can play out in differnt ways game to game. In what way do you think X3's story lines were superior to X4's?

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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by Alan Phipps » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 11:20

Just a reminder that Egosoft did actually ask for players' opinions on development priorities: see here.
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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by Kpla Keltak » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 11:24

just fix the BUGS.

TWO years and counting. 100s of annoying bugs (That Egosoft are well aware of). Game content that has been around a long time still not correctly implemented.

And yet....across the vastness of space minds immeasurably superior to ours...Egosoft.
Decide NO we wont bother with the features and bugs of the existing game lets add ventures and warping stations More, More and More. but sod trying to fix or refine what's already there.

Just my opinion...if you don't like it...jog on
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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by grapedog » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 12:47

Kpla Keltak wrote:
Thu, 3. Dec 20, 11:24
just fix the BUGS.

TWO years and counting. 100s of annoying bugs (That Egosoft are well aware of). Game content that has been around a long time still not correctly implemented.

And yet....across the vastness of space minds immeasurably superior to ours...Egosoft.
Decide NO we wont bother with the features and bugs of the existing game lets add ventures and warping stations More, More and More. but sod trying to fix or refine what's already there.

Just my opinion...if you don't like it...jog on
Lol, posts opinion, but won't settle for counter points or differing opinions.... invalidates your own opinion. Real smooth.

Jogging on..... moving the PHQ has been one of most heavily requested improvements since the games release.... and they fix bugs on a continual basis.

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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by EGO_Aut » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 12:51

I will not vote.
My opinion? Let them do there job!

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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by GCU Grey Area » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 12:54

Voted "add more content" - Borons specifically.

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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by Artean » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 13:27

EGO_Aut wrote:
Thu, 3. Dec 20, 12:51
I will not vote.
My opinion? Let them do there job!
+1
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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by chew-ie » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 13:45

Went with
Graphical overhaul of the current ingame asset (ex.: more detailed ship/station/sector/npc animation, sound, etc...)
We need a director's cut edition - especially the Paranid ships urgently need one! Everything else is improved quite nicely over the last few patches, but Egosoft should really change their stance towards their first experiments - some assets have to be reworked to fit into the newly found quality.

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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by Matthew94 » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 13:47

"Improving quality of life" and "Improving the actual game mechanic" seem like the same topic in my mind. You're basically asking people if they want existing systems to be refined or new features. Bug fixing would also come under the umbrella of refinement in my opinion.

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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by Alan Phipps » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 15:18

These are my personal observations and nothing 'official'.

Bug fixing is done anyway as a continuous process in a priority sequence determined by several factors of which these are just some examples:
  • Issue attribution (gamecode, modding/editing or system-specific),
    accuracy/credibility/completeness of reporting,
    significance of issue on gameplay,
    ability/ease of replication on the devs' system,
    availability of necessary dev(s),
    pressure of other scheduled work,
    coffee/pizza availability,
    etc.
You don't really need any further external prioritisation advice for bugfixing.

Refinement of existing features and new content development go on in parallel and are not by definition mutually exclusive. (Indeed they *must* be kept compatible.)

Gameplay changes/tweaks and QoL improvements are often more subjective and compete with each other and other things for dev investigation and resources.

Scheduled/intended improvements, additions and fixes are usually subject to internal and public testing and thus should attract feedback and adjustments within expected timescales for using those processes. After release, the general forums also provide feedback.

Suggestions from the userbase on potential new content and priorities are generally trawled over by devs in advance of major work scheduling and rarely have an immediate effect if offered after that point.
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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by dtpsprt » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 15:20

grapedog wrote:
Thu, 3. Dec 20, 10:05
Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Thu, 3. Dec 20, 04:13
Think, Trade, Build, ( Fight as a last resort )
This is the preferred order.
The game is flawed, as they have the order wrong.
Your argument is flawed, as the preferred order, or no order, is determined by the player. By your logic a pirate playthrough where you don't trade or build anything is a flawed choice. Don't assume how other people choose to play this game.


Also, to the OP, there is no poll option for being happy with the current rate and/or direction of development.
As you may be right about the overall order, I personally believe that THINK should always come first...

EDIT: As for the "missing" options, I believe that the OP's purpose was about things that need to change (or differentiate a bit)

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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by dtpsprt » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 15:25

Alan Phipps wrote:
Thu, 3. Dec 20, 11:20
Just a reminder that Egosoft did actually ask for players' opinions on development priorities: see here.
And here says that the survey was sent to those who had subscribed to X-News only... it was not an open survey to the members of the forum

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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by Alan Phipps » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 15:33

Well, not subscribing to X News is generally taken as 'Please don't bother me.' :wink:

Besides, they didn't want to ask all the spammers and bots. :D
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Re: Voice of the X4 community (because your opinion matter!)

Post by dtpsprt » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 15:38

Alan Phipps wrote:
Thu, 3. Dec 20, 15:33
Well, not subscribing to X News is generally taken as 'Please don't bother me.' :wink:

Besides, they didn't want to ask all the spammers and bots. :D
Don't subscribe to ANY news is the best way to keep spammers and spam mail off.... as for the spammers and bots in the main Egosoft Forum? Microsoft might be having an issue with them... even Google... not an Indie Game Firm...

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