Smart(er) Subsystem Targeting

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Sandalpocalypse
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Smart(er) Subsystem Targeting

Post by Sandalpocalypse » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 13:38

I (relatively) recently assaulted my first Xenon sector. As part of this I attacked several Xenon stations and did a mission to strip Xenon station turrets. This experience made clear to me the inadequacies of the current subsystem targeting mechanic in several ways. 3.0's addition of shading depending on whether you could see a subsystem was treating a symptom rather than the cause.

I found attacking stations with a torpedo bomber - focusing on destroying turret batteries, particularly Graviton Turrets - in support of my own efforts to be an exercise in frustration. I had to use tab targeting owing to the distance I needed to stay from the station to stay alive...but the average Xenon station sports several dozen targetable subsystems. I had to tab through the list to find one I could target, self-filtering based on whether it was visible from my current angle, then launch torpedoes in sequence. If I changed targets or even destroyed my current target I lost my place in the list. I couldn't even prioritize my ideal targets, the L turrets.

The problems were further highlighted when doing the mission to destroy station turrets. The mission automatically highlighted turrets using mission objective boxes, which proved to be *much* easier to use - I could simply select a box that was bright and launch at it, then move on to the next box. I knew before picking a box whether I had LOS on it or not and I could see from looking at all the boxes how progress was going and how many of the objectives I had destroyed. The contrast of experience was almost galling.

The stations are the worst in this respect owing to their sheer number of turrets, but even targeting a Xenon K - a relatively common experience, and the most likely capital ship for any given player to be attacking - can be frustrating as you tab through the systems to try to select the turrets facing you. Mouse selection is unreliable at best because any system that is occluded by the target box is basically cant be selected. You literally have to contort your flight path around trying to make targeting easier on yourself.... As I continued to play the game, I paid particular attention to the experience of attacking surface elements and gave the enterprise some thought. I came up with the following suggestions, ordered roughly by how difficult they seemed to me to implement. (I have no expertise in the game code so this is purely guesswork on my part.)

1.) Automatic selection of next element. Rather than losing target, destroying a targeted element should target the next element.

2.) Boarding missions should highlight turrets. When in Phase 1 of boarding, it should highlight all turrets on the target capital ship until the phase is complete. This lets the player easily target turrets that are a threat to them (namely that are facing them).

3.) Target nearest element. Why not be able to target the nearest surface element with a hotkey? Often times, this is the one you want to destroy.

4.) Guidance missions for assaulting a ship that highlights all surface elements. You could issue a mission to attack an enemy ship. This mission could highlight all surface elements and make them easily targetable. It would also provide easy at-a-glance estimation of how effective your target still is.

4b.) Identifiable subsystem icon targeting. If a ship shows up with numerous targeting icons, then it would be even more helpful if those icons could tell you at a glance what each target is. For example, L turrets should have larger targeting boxes than M turrets, and engines selectin boxes could be a different shape or overlaid with an icon indicating what they are. This could even be linked to a new targeting system extension software.

5.) "Smart" targeting of surface elements. If mousing over an element on a target, it should soft highlight with the white outline (the one that appears when you hit a non-targeted subsystem). Clicking or shooting it with bullets could/should make it the targeted subsystem, or possibly the soft highlight could be 'confirmed' by pressing T again or some such. The ideal is that you can easily and intuitively target the subsystems you want to attack, rather than struggling with the UI or resigning yourself to tab targeting. "Soft" targeting that automatically switched based on your current aimpoint or recent shots would be particularly helpful for conducting high speed strafing runs .

6.) Target element groups rather than elements. Rather than targeting a specific turret, it would make sense to target turret groups instead. Or, for example, all of a ships engines at the same time. This makes intuitive and tactical sense, as element groups are typically clustered and also share shielding. Your aim assist would be directed at whichever element is closest to your aim point, with some stickiness to prevent rapid target-switching. This scheme would both make attacking surface elements easier and also make tab targeting incredibly easier to use - your average L ship would only have 5-9 things to tab through rather than dozens.
Last edited by Sandalpocalypse on Thu, 3. Dec 20, 13:46, edited 2 times in total.
Irrational factors are clearly at work.

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grapedog
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Re: Smart(er) Subsystem Targeting

Post by grapedog » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 13:42

The one shortcut i have found kind of works for me, is just before i destroy an element, as my plasma fire ot torp is en route, i hit the button to target the next in the list. You can verify its destruction by going down in the list and seeing that item is gone.

On ships, it isn't too cumbersome to go through the list, but on stations, like a xenon, it's a chore...

Wultan
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Re: Smart(er) Subsystem Targeting

Post by Wultan » Thu, 3. Dec 20, 23:42

Sandalpocalypse, that is something I am dreaming of since I play X4.
You put it in a nutshell. Great.

rubahax4
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Re: Smart(er) Subsystem Targeting

Post by rubahax4 » Fri, 4. Dec 20, 07:30

For all this, one function would be sufficient - selection of all subsystems using a key.
You will need to buy (in-game) new software.

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Re: Smart(er) Subsystem Targeting

Post by RedEyedRaven » Fri, 4. Dec 20, 10:48

+1
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oddible
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Re: Smart(er) Subsystem Targeting

Post by oddible » Fri, 4. Dec 20, 17:23

Sandalpocalypse wrote:
Thu, 3. Dec 20, 13:38
1.) Automatic selection of next element. Rather than losing target, destroying a targeted element should target the next element.
All great suggestions, and very well written / requested, but I'll be lean here, if they ONLY fixed this ^ I'd be happy as a Teladi in Nostrop. It is doubly worse because there is currently a bug where the element loses target when you merely deplete the shield but not the hull (I can't imagine this is working as designed).

I do worry about this a bit however. Currently manually in-sector player controlled ships defeating targets is pretty easy. You can literally fly straight at a K in a Rattlesnake guns blazing with zero worries, pop 1 engine on an XEN I and you can do the same. Without some resistance mechanic to make it <more difficult> or <more cumbersome> to prevent the player from just getting in a single destroyer and ROFLSTOMPING the universe the game becomes too simple. I'm not saying that the terrible subsystem targetting is the answer here but it definitely is such a chore that it makes me want to send an OOS fleet to do the job.

Honestly I didn't even build a Wharf / Shipyard in my current playthrough. A single Ody and a single Ratt can pretty much clean up the map in the player's hands.

Rei Ayanami
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Re: Smart(er) Subsystem Targeting

Post by Rei Ayanami » Fri, 4. Dec 20, 17:32

How about using the short range scan mode :
- Ingame, add a new software (subsystem highlighting software) we can install to our ships
- If you have this software installed, when you switch to short range scan mode (purple cockpit lines) all subsystems of the currently selected target will either be marked with an outline (similar to how they are outlined while attacking them) or be marked with a clickable icon (similar to how station data leaks get marked during a repair mission). That way you can easily find subsystems around the ship
- Clicking on a subsystem icon /outline targets the corresponding subsystem (they get higher click priority than the ships hull rectangle)

Also yea, I agree, if the selected subsystem gets destroyed then we shouldn't lose the entire targeting selection.
I think if the selected subsystem gets destroyed then we should either
- auto-target the main target that the subsystem belonged to, or
- auto-target the next subsystem on the targeted object, and if there are no more subsystems to select, select the main target that the subsystem belonged to.

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