Shipyard prices - I'm being scammed

[dcarver]

I'm getting 250K for med trade ships... am I actually making money?????

I'm selling BOA's, and they are Med spec. Minimum spec to buy is 600k, Med is 1.2 mil, and I'm charging 150%. I should be getting 1.5+ mil. This is a scam, why would I spend 100mil so that I can sell ships at 90% off. This is what I don't like about this game, they don't give you the facts up front. I don't even want to think how much money I was LOOSING when I was selling at 100%.

So now I'm thinking I'd make more money selling the resources. If I remember I was making great money on my previous play-though, although that was a lot more Split Fighter ships. Is it the Weapons that make money or the L class?

[Falcrack]

Are you playing the beta? The devs had announced their intention to nerf shipyard income. Maybe this is part of that effort?

[ApoxNM]

Are you playing the beta? The devs had announced their intention to nerf shipyard income. Maybe this is part of that effort?

Seriously?

Why in the world are they nerfing everything?

Making a game a grindfest is not something enjoyable.

[Newinger]

Are you playing the beta? The devs had announced their intention to nerf shipyard income. Maybe this is part of that effort?

Seriously?

Why in the world are they nerfing everything?

Making a game a grindfest is not something enjoyable.

Because quite a lot players complained that shipyard income was way too high.

[Bastelfred]

A few more details would be nice.... How do you sell the ship? Does your station sell it for that price, or do you sell it manually to the AI?

[Raevyan]

Are you playing the beta? The devs had announced their intention to nerf shipyard income. Maybe this is part of that effort?

Seriously?

Why in the world are they nerfing everything?

Making a game a grindfest is not something enjoyable.

To be able to build an operational wharf from the a new save you need 20 rep with a faction and ~150m credits. I’ve got both in a new 4.0 b7 save within ~7h of playing the game (I was somewhat slow). Currently, with 3.30, once you’ve got a wharf going you basically print money way faster than you could ever spend. You basically skip all early and mid game and go straight into “oh let’s order 200 fully equipped rattlesnakes because I can”. There is no progression at all.

Besides that, most people build their wharfs self sufficient which makes selling ships a 100% profit. As soon as you produce Hull parts, Claytronics and Energy cells on your own, you basically don’t need any credits. Factions will order ships from you constantly and almost forever. The only and finite sink for credits are ship/equipment blueprints and the split plots. The 4b credit requirements were introduced as a result of those highly profitable wharfs/shipyards.

[Y-llian]

You should still be able to make a profit if you import everything for ship building, otherwise what’s the point of the investment?

Not all players build self-sufficient complexes. I tend to go for hybrid options building some materials and importing others. Feels more like you’re a real empire that way, at least to me.

What’s necessary here is some balance between these two positions, I’d suggest...

[taztaz502]

I normally build 2-3 of every station in a sector then a wharf/shipyard rather than building complexes.

Shipyards did need a nerf though once you have one money is literally a non-issue and you can just print your own ships.

But i do think nerfing the pricing on ships etc is the wrong way to go about it, they really need some "upkeep" for stations/ships etc.

For those complaining it would make things too difficult they could always rush for the iwin button 300 billion terraforming reward.

[Y-llian]

I normally build 2-3 of every station in a sector then a wharf/shipyard rather than building complexes.

Shipyards did need a nerf though once you have one money is literally a non-issue and you can just print your own ships.

But i do think nerfing the pricing on ships etc is the wrong way to go about it, they really need some "upkeep" for stations/ships.

I too use a diffused production approach with ships moving the goods. This is a space game after all and I enjoy seeing my ships scurrying around taking part in the economy.

I agree with the sentiments that shipyards needed to be balanced but not to the extent that players who import all their goods make a loss as the OP suggests.

[Raevyan]

When I did it in b7, the wharf still made lots of profits and at that stage, I bought all resources from NPCs.

One could argue, that a guaranteed profit shouldn’t be the default. If you buy resources for high prices and sell lower you’ll loose some. Makes one think about pricing. The only problem is, that the max sell price is locked

[Y-llian]

One could argue, that a guaranteed profit shouldn’t be the default. If you buy resources for high prices and sell lower you’ll loose some. Makes one think about pricing. The only problem is, that the max sell price is locked

That’s an interesting point actually. The rest of the economy’s prices fluctuate dependent on supply/demand but ship prices are always fixed except for the artificial increase the player can use at their own yard.

Of course, given that ships are at the top tier of the economy the likelihood is high demand regardless... And without that high demand the economy below will stagnate.

[Y-llian]

Just had a thought....

How about, if the player buys all materials for their ships at the very top price then they’re only able to break even - no loss, no profit. That way, ships only become profitable if you buy goods at lower prices - and the lower the better obviously. Profitability will fluctuate more widely this way but may reduce the ‘money mill’ outcome others have rightly raised also.

[Panos]

To be able to build an operational wharf from the a new save you need 20 rep with a faction and ~150m credits. I’ve got both in a new 4.0 b7 save within ~7h of playing the game (I was somewhat slow). Currently, with 3.30, once you’ve got a wharf going you basically print money way faster than you could ever spend. You basically skip all early and mid game and go straight into “oh let’s order 200 fully equipped rattlesnakes because I can”. There is no progression at all.

So 7 hours into the campaign you want to have a wharf and print money? And that is slow???????????????

[Repli]

To be able to build an operational wharf from the a new save you need 20 rep with a faction and ~150m credits. I’ve got both in a new 4.0 b7 save within ~7h of playing the game (I was somewhat slow). Currently, with 3.30, once you’ve got a wharf going you basically print money way faster than you could ever spend. You basically skip all early and mid game and go straight into “oh let’s order 200 fully equipped rattlesnakes because I can”. There is no progression at all.

So 7 hours into the campaign you want to have a wharf and print money? And that is slow???????????????

Yes, it is possible. Unfortunately.
But as you can see: For some people the game is still too hard and for other much too easy
From my point of view, changing all these "printing money" mechanisms is mandatory. But we have this topic, because other people like money-printing and are upset because of nerfing it. Individual gameplay
What is right? And what is wrong?

Crazy new idea: configurable game(starts).

[Newinger]

Yes, it is possible. Unfortunately.

I wonder how (if not leaving the game running with SETA overnight but actually sitting in front of the PC and manually playing). My current game has about 20 hours and I have 4 M miners, 1 meat/energy station, 3 M traders and 1 fully upgraded Elite. Cash is about 2.5 millions. But I admit that I do not play as efficient as possible, because I often just fly around, listen to the music and watch the nice nebulae.

[Repli]

Yes, it is possible. Unfortunately.

I wonder how (if not leaving the game running with SETA overnight but actually sitting in front of the PC and manually playing). My current game has about 20 hours and I have 4 M miners, 1 meat/energy station, 3 M traders and 1 fully upgraded Elite. Cash is about 2.5 millions. But I admit that I do not play as efficient as possible, because I often just fly around, listen to the music and watch the nice nebulae.

It is always a question how you play the game
Nothing was said, that in this 7hours you have built a self-sufficient shipyard, but you could have the reputation and the money for the blueprint. There are a lot of exploits around that can bring you to it maybe even faster. Building-times for modules are the only bottleneck, I think.
But is it really fun to play this way? Maybe...

[MSterling]

Yes, it is possible. Unfortunately.

I wonder how (if not leaving the game running with SETA overnight but actually sitting in front of the PC and manually playing). My current game has about 20 hours and I have 4 M miners, 1 meat/energy station, 3 M traders and 1 fully upgraded Elite. Cash is about 2.5 millions. But I admit that I do not play as efficient as possible, because I often just fly around, listen to the music and watch the nice nebulae.

It isn't. The first poster claiming this is possible had their detailed plan of how they do it (in 6-7 hours that time, so we already have scope creep) and it was: "I hijacked a rattlesnake with one marine and sold it". Rattlesnakes don't sell for the 200 million they said.

[Raevyan]

Within 7 hours you don’t get a self sufficient wharf/shipyard simply because of build times and resource that need to be shipped to your plot. I just had a dock, several container storages (s sized) and the wharf module running, buying all resources from NPC’s. Will it build without waiting for resources? Ofc not, but it still makes lots of credits pretty fast so they become irrelevant. The profit only goes up because you probably built supporting stations afterwards to supply the wharf.

And no one said that a single rattlesnake sells for 200m. Last one I sold brought me 26m. Sell 6 of them and you got 150m. Even without the shipyard/wharf income nerf, there are ways to get credits way faster (vanilla game no mods/save edits).

[Raevyan]

One could argue, that a guaranteed profit shouldn’t be the default. If you buy resources for high prices and sell lower you’ll loose some. Makes one think about pricing. The only problem is, that the max sell price is locked

That’s an interesting point actually. The rest of the economy’s prices fluctuate dependent on supply/demand but ship prices are always fixed except for the artificial increase the player can use at their own yard.

Of course, given that ships are at the top tier of the economy the likelihood is high demand regardless... And without that high demand the economy below will stagnate.

I mean right now, the player cannot fail economically, as you will always make a profit. This is a simulation and in my opinion, managing funds and not going bankrupt is part of simulations

[dtpsprt]

When I did it in b7, the wharf still made lots of profits and at that stage, I bought all resources from NPCs.

One could argue, that a guaranteed profit shouldn’t be the default. If you buy resources for high prices and sell lower you’ll loose some. Makes one think about pricing. The only problem is, that the max sell price is locked

This serious nerfing came in place in Beta 8 and continues in Beta 9...