Missing my favourite race - Boron

[Khevor]

Undoubtedly, this has been brought up many times before but I'm not sure why adding them to X4 is so terribly complicated. If you had to push them around in giant tanks all the time, I could see the issue but that's hardly necessary.
If a Boron were to stay in one place for long periods (such as a manager of a station) a tank would suit (just add controls to the tank so it looks like they can actually *use* them).
But to move around, they'd only need a kind of hovering space suit/encounter suit (like the Vorlon's of Babylon 5, for example). Wouldn't need to be any bigger than existing Paranid in height or Teladi in width. Their ships should be full of fluid, true but we have space suits already so from a graphical point of view, we could have those with a watery environment setting for ship interior (could be done with lighting). The only real problem would be getting in and out of Boron fighters but that metal pipe that ships sit on could be repurposed as a kind of liquid elevator for Boron fighters (the Argon Quasar sits on one that's rather high. A larger diameter and you could get into it and be pushed into a Boron fighter.).
So if it's not these things that are why the Boron are consistently being passed over for DLC, then what? Granted, assets would need to be changed or updated but that's to be expected.

Just disappointed.

[Teladi CEO]

Shhhhh, you’ll incur the wrath of CBJ and Bernd!

As Bernd has said many times, it isn’t possible, what may seem simple really isn’t as simple as it seems. It’s like looking at a Xbox, and saying “hey I think I could make that” then getting there and struggling to know what to do. (That wasn’t directed as a scornful remark)

They would need a separate set of animations, new chair formats (like they had for the Paranid), then they would need to create models that fit these slots and don’t look odd.

Not to forget all established lore in the X-Universe, Boron and other races really didn’t interact much with each other unless it was not on a Boron station. Separate rooms had to be built, et cetera.

Then there is architecture, the Paranid ships are curved and thus the flat hard points in X4 require deep gashes and redesigns for ships. The Boron ships that we know and love would probably look a lot different.

As much as I would love to see them, I don’t fully understand the limitations of Egosofts engine and thus, don’t know if it’s possible to get them.

[Jeraal]

Shhhhh, you’ll incur the wrath of CBJ and Bernd!

As Bernd has said many times, it isn’t possible, what may seem simple really isn’t as simple as it seems. It’s like looking at a Xbox, and saying “hey I think I could make that” then getting there and struggling to know what to do. (That wasn’t directed as a scornful remark)

They would need a separate set of animations, new chair formats (like they had for the Paranid), then they would need to create models that fit these slots and don’t look odd.

Not to forget all established lore in the X-Universe, Boron and other races really didn’t interact much with each other unless it was not on a Boron station. Separate rooms had to be built, et cetera.

Then there is architecture, the Paranid ships are curved and thus the flat hard points in X4 require deep gashes and redesigns for ships. The Boron ships that we know and love would probably look a lot different.

As much as I would love to see them, I don’t fully understand the limitations of Egosofts engine and thus, don’t know if it’s possible to get them.

Simple actually. Get rid of walking(wouldn't miss it), and it suddenly becomes a lot easier to bring them in.

[Teladi CEO]

Shhhhh, you’ll incur the wrath of CBJ and Bernd!

As Bernd has said many times, it isn’t possible, what may seem simple really isn’t as simple as it seems. It’s like looking at a Xbox, and saying “hey I think I could make that” then getting there and struggling to know what to do. (That wasn’t directed as a scornful remark)

They would need a separate set of animations, new chair formats (like they had for the Paranid), then they would need to create models that fit these slots and don’t look odd.

Not to forget all established lore in the X-Universe, Boron and other races really didn’t interact much with each other unless it was not on a Boron station. Separate rooms had to be built, et cetera.

Then there is architecture, the Paranid ships are curved and thus the flat hard points in X4 require deep gashes and redesigns for ships. The Boron ships that we know and love would probably look a lot different.

As much as I would love to see them, I don’t fully understand the limitations of Egosofts engine and thus, don’t know if it’s possible to get them.

Simple actually. Get rid of walking(wouldn't miss it), and it suddenly becomes a lot easier to bring them in.

Regardless if I like it or not, removing something people payed for, to make room for something people have to pay for is not a good idea. Look at destiny 2 and Beyond light

[kobayashimaru]

Shhhhh, you’ll incur the wrath of CBJ and Bernd!

As Bernd has said many times, it isn’t possible, what may seem simple really isn’t as simple as it seems. It’s like looking at a Xbox, and saying “hey I think I could make that” then getting there and struggling to know what to do. (That wasn’t directed as a scornful remark)

They would need a separate set of animations, new chair formats (like they had for the Paranid), then they would need to create models that fit these slots and don’t look odd.

Not to forget all established lore in the X-Universe, Boron and other races really didn’t interact much with each other unless it was not on a Boron station. Separate rooms had to be built, et cetera.

Then there is architecture, the Paranid ships are curved and thus the flat hard points in X4 require deep gashes and redesigns for ships. The Boron ships that we know and love would probably look a lot different.

As much as I would love to see them, I don’t fully understand the limitations of Egosofts engine and thus, don’t know if it’s possible to get them.

Of course it's possible, it's a piece of software. It just requires a bit more effort than your standard DLC. But I guess it's easier to just say "it isn't possible".
Here's a couple of ideas- forbid entry to Boron ships, make them inaccessible to player and non Boron crew. Simple. Or, if you're willing to put some effort into it- make special "scuba gear" used by non Boron species while on Boron ships, a kind of exoskeleton like that which Paranid wear, make swimming/floating animations. Everything else is the same. It really shouln't be a big deal. A lot smaller dev studios have made bigger things than that.
Now, don't drag me into all that "it's not possible, it's more complicated than that" etc. nonsense. It's just excuses. If there are more pressing matters to resolve, and there most certainly are, than that is something completely different, but don't say it's too hard or impossible, because it's just nonsense and everybody knows that.

[jlehtone]

Undoubtedly, this has been brought up many times before ...

Latest:
viewtopic.php?f=146&t=434054
viewtopic.php?f=146&t=433771

[Teladi CEO]

Shhhhh, you’ll incur the wrath of CBJ and Bernd!

As Bernd has said many times, it isn’t possible, what may seem simple really isn’t as simple as it seems. It’s like looking at a Xbox, and saying “hey I think I could make that” then getting there and struggling to know what to do. (That wasn’t directed as a scornful remark)

They would need a separate set of animations, new chair formats (like they had for the Paranid), then they would need to create models that fit these slots and don’t look odd.

Not to forget all established lore in the X-Universe, Boron and other races really didn’t interact much with each other unless it was not on a Boron station. Separate rooms had to be built, et cetera.

Then there is architecture, the Paranid ships are curved and thus the flat hard points in X4 require deep gashes and redesigns for ships. The Boron ships that we know and love would probably look a lot different.

As much as I would love to see them, I don’t fully understand the limitations of Egosofts engine and thus, don’t know if it’s possible to get them.

Of course it's possible, it's a piece of software. It just requires a bit more effort than your standard DLC. But I guess it's easier to just say "it isn't possible".
Here's a couple of ideas- forbid entry to Boron ships, make them inaccessible to player and non Boron crew. Simple. Or, if you're willing to put some effort into it- make special "scuba gear" used by non Boron species while on Boron ships, a kind of exoskeleton like that which Paranid wear, make swimming/floating animations. Everything else is the same. It really shouln't be a big deal. A lot smaller dev studios have made bigger things than that.
Now, don't drag me into all that "it's not possible, it's more complicated than that" etc. nonsense. It's just excuses. If there are more pressing matters to resolve, and there most certainly are, than that is something completely different, but don't say it's too hard or impossible, because it's just nonsense and everybody knows that.

They’re not excuses, saying something isn’t possible isn’t an excuse. Saying that humans cant create a wormhole with current technology, isn’t an excuse it’s a fact.

Your two options are both not going to work, why? You buy a $40 dlc and unless you play as a Boron, the ships are just for looks and power. You can’t fly them or even interact with them. Your second one doesn’t make sense either, to create a fluid environment Egosoft has to create a fluid system unless you want jarring effects of walking into an airlock then water just appearing out of nowhere. I’ve seen teams with tens of millions in budget struggle to create even basic fluid systems.

While of course, your right everything is possible if you try it. Except Egosoft is a small team, with a small budget trying to create something for a wide range of audiences. Please name a smaller dev team than Egosoft that has done what you suggest (Egosoft has less than thirty I think)

The only games with small dev teams I have seen successful with water and land differences is because that’s what the game revolves around.

[CBJ]

Just to be clear, contrary to what has been stated above, we have not has said it isn't possible. What we've said is that we want to do it properly, and that it hasn't been possible to do that within the constraints of our projects so far. We have a number of ideas for how we'd like to implement them, but when it comes down to it, project constraints may still be the limiting factor.

[Khevor]

Fair. Still disappointed but can't fault what you said.

I appreciate the response and the clarification.

[Teladi CEO]

Just to be clear, contrary to what has been stated above, we have not has said it isn't possible. What we've said is that we want to do it properly, and that it hasn't been possible to do that within the constraints of our projects so far. We have a number of ideas for how we'd like to implement them, but when it comes down to it, project constraints may still be the limiting factor.

Sorry, It was too my belief that it was not possible. Knowing that it is, does instill something to look forward to after CoH.

[Waltz99]

would love to see borrons walking around with legs and a water helmet on.

But why has everything to be compatible with all races?
Even in real life we have stuff for right handed people and other things for the left handed ones.
We got things for dogs and other things for humans.

What I'm trying to say. I wouldn't mind if Borrons couldn't access all docking pads unless its a special docking pad for borrons.
Or to have ships which borrons can't access but borron ships which for example a split can't access because of the inside economics are different.

It wouldn't mean you can't buy the amazing borron ship if you are another species.
It would only mean you have to hire a borron to fly it.

[jlehtone]

But why has everything to be compatible with all races?

It wouldn't mean you can't buy the amazing borron ship if you are another species.
It would only mean you have to hire a borron to fly it.

We have Xbtf (and X-R?) where you can fly exactly one ship. You can hire other ships.
Then we have X-T, X2, X3, X4 where you can fly any ship (except some foes).

You suggest a game with two modes:
* You can fly all ships, except Boron (and other foes)
* You can fly only Boron ships (and visit only Boron stations)

That can be rational idea, but is it popular idea?

[Bastelfred]

That can be rational idea, but is it popular idea?

I would like it if the different races were not just better skinpacks. In X the differences between the races are missing. But it would be wrong to start with the Boron. You should have implemented something like that from the beginning. And even then it would be too late, because it's already X4 and not X1, where you still have all the options to do it differently.

[jlehtone]

That goes back to the "What is an X game?" and "How much is it acceptable to change?"
Some users call X-R and X4 as "not X game; too different".

[Bastelfred]

Some users call X-R and X4 as "not X game; too different".

For me, X-R was a step in the right direction, with a few not so good choices.
And X4 is a 3/4 step back towards X3, which I definitely regret.

Yes, that is exactly the problem here. You have to be careful because always a part of the players reacts quite sensitive. And each player has something that he hates, accepts or loves, but for each it is different. I am open to many things, but the sail currently on the Terran ship triggers me a lot....

A decent implementation of the Boron is definitely not easy.

And Egosoft has to find its way in this minefield between acceptance and rejection. And actually, they do it amazingly well.

[dtpsprt]

But why has everything to be compatible with all races?

It wouldn't mean you can't buy the amazing borron ship if you are another species.
It would only mean you have to hire a borron to fly it.

We have Xbtf (and X-R?) where you can fly exactly one ship. You can hire other ships.
Then we have X-T, X2, X3, X4 where you can fly any ship (except some foes).

You suggest a game with two modes:
* You can fly all ships, except Boron (and other foes)
* You can fly only Boron ships (and visit only Boron stations)

That can be rational idea, but is it popular idea?

Actually it's bot a rational idea imho as far as economics are concerned (cost of double production versus possible earnings). On the other hand Boron ships and stations are well known to be accessible by everybody, ships not being filled with water (limitations of mass) and Boron stations having a "breathing" section. The Borons in those player visitable/usable places can very well be in spacesuits (it's even said so in the X Universe books). The "real" problem comes from the current Boron design (it should really change) where they do not have far reaching grappling appendages and six legs(!!!).
As they are designed they need to have special consoles and are only able to perform any actions (except incessantly and annoyingly speaking) in dedicated environment and which would also make all other races incompatible with this equipment. Not a very well thought idea... If Egosoft kept to the X Universe original idea of Borons being similar to octopuses there would be no such problems. Besides, an octopus can very well survive outside of water for at least one day if it's skin is hydrated.

EDIT: Just try to take a Boron for a ride in XBTF - X2 - X3 f you are running out of time you hear "my tentacles go dry" (therefore octopuses) and if you get a fetch job from them "you run like without water", which of course does not mean that your or their ship(s) are filled with water but hydrated...

[NightmareNight91]

Sad the game will never be complete without them, oh well, maybe x5?

[Sinxar]

Its actually strange that when I played X3, i knew they were aquatic. But in X4, it really hits home.

How could they possibly do this without introducing some insane mechanic? Well.... how about space suits?

Think of the Mass Effect series, there are a few alien species that doesn't breathe oxygen and they have suits on so they can interact face to face with other species. This is supposed to be the distant future (which weirdly enough im not seeing Japanese writing on stations, Egosoft, you know exactly what im talking about) I mean come on, they are advanced enough to be at least on par with the commonwealth's space travel, make it happen. Put them in suits if nothing else.

To be completely frank, X4 is a huge letdown in the lore department. I hope I am mistaken though, how can you possibly release CoH without Aldrin? Makes zero sense. I hope I am just wrong and they are included. They are such a large part of the X lore that Its unthinkable to release CoH without Aldrin. Remember that Terrans reconnected the gates basically randomly to the Aldrin sectors and should be in theory unaffected by the gate shutdown as they are Terran controlled gates. What ever happened to #deca? How did Aldrin evolve since the reconnection? Wasn't AP supposed to be a bridge between X3 and X:R? What happened to that link? Why is Albion unheard of in X4? I want answers!

[NightmareNight91]

I had an idea, so bare with me here as I am at work obviously not focusing on my job and typing this on ny phone with auto correct off....

What if we put the borons in floating suits, and when they enter any small ship cockpit, anything with a pilot seat. We simply make the pilot seat recognize that a boron is going to fly the ship and intelligently fold its self up and lay flat on the floor underneath where the boron will now float in place and pilot the ship.

This way it only requires changing the single pilot seat that is already shared by all races ships. No changes to the ships themselves needed. Only the chair, it can just be a simple animation where it will fold up and lay flat like a floor mat..

Now we could have borons with minimal effort needed to accomodate them.

[Bastelfred]

The X4 CE comes with an artbook as PDF... there are some old drawings of Boron in suits. Every idea that can be read in the forum about this, Egosoft already had over 2 years ago. If I remember correctly Bernd said over 2 years ago that they probably already had some 3D models to test. So it's not that Egosoft doesn't want to and doesn't try anything, they do. And if they find a solution that they like, the Boron will come into this game.