Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

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mr.WHO
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Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 09:36

With 4.0 and 2nd DLC, the core of the game is somewhat done, so could we finally focus on polishing several rough edges left here and there that still stand out as 1.0 content?

Something that could be done for 4.50 mid-size patch?


Combat related:
- Medium turret re-balance (analog to 3.0 Large turret rebalance)
- Missile turrets re-balance (especially make more distinction between medium and large ones)
- Missile rebalance (you need hundreds missiles to take out a station in L/XL ships, while Torpedos are only available to S/M ships).
- Make Missile-defence automatic (currently it's manual chore) - something like in X3 where turrets shoot at missiles when they don't have any other target.
- While Xenons are good for IS, more often than not I see them completely sux at OOS.
- we have interceptor command since 3.0, yet we still missing the bomber command.
- can we finaly have working formations? I mean the only time ships stay at selected formation is if the leader stay still. During the movement, patrol and combat there is no formation and whole group is streached through half the sector :(
- can we get rid of infinite minefields in some sectors, but instead make normal minefields, that work OOS? Currently minefields are rather useless. Setting minefields would be great mechanics for pirates as well as proper generic mission for player to clear them.

GUI related:
- add combat computer update that HIGHLIGHT important components and allow quick scroll throug them, like Large turrets (the feature is already there, but for some reason it's only in Tutorial).
- ability to mass deploy deployables (e.g. mines).
- can we have formation visualization in encyclopedia?


Station interiors:
- Can we GET RID of the plant in front of faction representative desk?
- We have only Argon Nova hologram - could we actually have race related holograms? Like Paranid stations display Perseus, Terran station display Kukri etc.
- Same with Teladi Falcon sculpture - we could have more sculptures for each race station.
- can we actually have more NPC spawn in stations? All stations I visited never had more than a few NPC, they are ghost towns (and I cheked, they have ample workforce).
- There are plot related interiors that are only used ONCE and then discarted - couldn't they by reused for HQ interiors? In Split DLC we have "throne room" and "prison". In Terran DLC we have secret service command room. Not to mention Bar, which is most climatic interior, yet it's missing in HQ.

QoL changes:
- ability to switch off ships holding all actions when player teleport/takeover ship control - the one that I always have to comm ship pilot and tell him "continue current order".
This is completely useless and irritating - If I happen to have ship leaving me behind and I don't have teleport, I can simply call it back to return to me, I absolutely don't need for the ship to wait for me EVER!

Game Mechanics:
- escape pods - so player could save some of trained NPCs from lost ships. In the same time you could take prisoners from enemy ships (hint! That prison room from Split DLC would come in handy!) where you could exhange them for money or information on enemy stations (e.g. their shipyard/wharf location).
- Diplomacy - we have war option, but we don't have "make peace/surrender" option. We should be able to force faction to surrender if we completely dominate them (e.g. we force them to make peace with us), or if we are loosing we should be able to surrender too (e.g. they would take our stations and sectors, depending on how badly we were loosing).






New content:
- Teladi missing 4-gun fighter.
- Xenon missing Carrier, L-size destroyer, M-size Frigate, L-size Freighter/miner, separate combat drone model (they are using same drone like eveyone else, why not use one of Xenon mass trafic model?).
- Khaak could use one or two more ships.
- More raider variants of the existing ships, for pirates.
- some more ALI unique ships.
- XL Freighter and XL Miner (could be ALI ships, so you would need only 2).
- XL modules for most frequently used modules (e.g. Habitats, Microchips etc.) - that way we could avoid having moloch stations in the endgame, if I could jsut replace 10 standard modules with one XL. I'd be even fine if you simply kitbash several existing module models to make it an XL, they don't have to be unique.
- Terraforming missions for remaining factions (e.g. Terrans, Yaki, HAT, Split, Paranid).
- can we have full spectrum of lasertowers? Currently we only have XS and S lasertower, but it would be useful to also have M and L size lasertower in places where it would be too bothersome to build proper ddefense station. Simply upscaled lasertower model would be fine.
Last edited by mr.WHO on Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:35, edited 2 times in total.

Shehriazad
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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by Shehriazad » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 09:52

Another one that is actually polish -> Replace the generic wharf/shipyard models to faction specific ones.


At least the exteriors. It really can't be so hard to at least add faction-esque Armor plating to them according to faction. Especially for the Xenon and the Split it's super jarring.
Extreme style break and it makes absolutely zero sense to still have this 2.5 years down the road.


Next down would be construction ships. I almost take it personal that even the Terrans have the same model. The others could be explained as a "commonwealth" thing although that is super lazy already...but Terrans?!?

Pares
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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by Pares » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 10:09

mr.WHO wrote:
Wed, 14. Apr 21, 09:36
- Make Missile-defence automatic (currently it's manual chore) - something like in X3 where turrets shoot at missiles when they don't have any other target.
I'm not sure if it was a mod, but I remember being able to set priority orders for turrets in X3TC/AP. It would be nice if you could create an ordered priority list, e.g.: 1. Missile defence 2. Attack fighters 3. Attack my current target

Otherwise I agree with almost everything, except that I don't really want new content unless they sort out the existing bugs and shortcomings with what is already in the game and add some QoL improvements. After that what I would like as new content is more faction specific assets: station interiors, construction ships, docks, possibly even production modules. And I really don't care about the Boron.

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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by taztaz502 » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 10:25

Pares wrote:
Wed, 14. Apr 21, 10:09
mr.WHO wrote:
Wed, 14. Apr 21, 09:36
- Make Missile-defence automatic (currently it's manual chore) - something like in X3 where turrets shoot at missiles when they don't have any other target.
I'm not sure if it was a mod, but I remember being able to set priority orders for turrets in X3TC/AP. It would be nice if you could create an ordered priority list, e.g.: 1. Missile defence 2. Attack fighters 3. Attack my current target
That was a mod and sorely needed in X4.

Also yes game needs some serious polish before any new "content" is released, seems to be a lot of missing features also that need either looked at/added or removed from the game to avoid confusion.

raUlo
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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by raUlo » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 10:38

+1 to the "no additional content, only bugfixing and polishing" idea

- on the UI/UX side: the general idea is "the less clicks required, the better". One thing I ran into was finding some station producing X ware in the other corner of the universe and having to select each of my ~15 L freighters to fill their cargo bay with the X ware, then select each one again and instruct it to transfer back to the HQ

- on the A.I. side: carriers loaded with fighters have erratic behavior when trying to attack something, they're constantly called in to dock and there doesn't seem to be a way to prioritize a certain type of target (stations, capital ships, fighters, etc)

... among other issues

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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by terodil » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 10:41

How about the other AI stuff? I'm not fully up-to-date, but off the cuff I remember carrier behaviour, fleet behaviour (e.g. to members getting attacked), station balance, trader behaviour and others as issues that would seriously benefit from being looked at. And the basic commands ('defend'... lol) really HAVE to be looked at.
My X3 mods: Ship Autoclaimer - Ship Services - Friendlier War Sectors - in development: Logistics Centre

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BigBANGtheory
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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by BigBANGtheory » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 11:23

mr.WHO wrote:
Wed, 14. Apr 21, 09:36
Station interiors:
- Can we GET RID of the plant in front of faction representative desk?
That surely has to be the quickest win that literally all players would benefit from :mrgreen:

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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by Witzzard » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:05

GUI related:
- Trade- Map overlay overhaul / Alternative Trade- Map Overlay; give me one list centered on the sector. I'm not looking to buy hullparts for 1 credit less half the galaxy away. I'm looking for a reasonable trade within a few sectors. And i'd like to have the information in which sector i can find ware offers of the ware i'm searching for what price. Because profit/time is the actual measure to decide upon and not just profit and with the current overlay i've to zoom and scroll around quite a lot without ever being able to get really great infos without more or less just seeing 1 sector at a time.
- 5 Sector Weightmap overlay of needed base resources (adjusted for how well you've scanned stations - meaning known production modules which use base wares - ores/gases will add a point value to all sectors 5 jumps away). Making resource search more strategic is all nice, but players should get a few tools to help such decisions. And such an overlay (with clear indicator of it's subjectivity to ingame gathered information) would also make station scanning and dropping satelittes worth more.
- Show us all nessecary stats (Ships, Weapons, Equipment and so on) to make decisions. We're not playing an adventurrer looking at magic items, we're playing someone in a sci-fi world. The guy "selling" me terran thrusters should be able to tell me the difference between them and split thrusters; without us needing to hope it's in the encyclopedia (which it isn't always) or worse, having to pull and decrypt some game files. I can't count the number of times i went "Huh... those stats can't be all there is to that, there is something not shown here or it wouldn't make sense" - though that might also be because i'm bad at counting :D

Trade-Rule related:
- Per Station rule upon ship construction parts; A wharf in Terran space needs another rule than one in normal space.
- Trade rules per Build Module or even specific ship types! - i might want to just have faction be able to build certain size ships or actual ships at all. Maybe i don't want to fuel a war, but just trade ships or even just miners?
- Haven't really tested it yet, but if not there yet - a rule to only have shipyards build for other factions when not dropping your nessecary build ware stock under a minimum stock we can determine.

Combat related:
- Information on the supposed missile functions. I've got no idea what your disruptor missile is supposed to be.
- Missile speed adjustments; with the overall speed of a lot of ships, i don't see a lot of worth in quite a few missiles. A lot of tracking missiles (heavy) will never catch up to anything smaller than L ships, and rockets will never reach a target before he changes directions (4km usual combat distance, 1km/s max speed - 4s flight time.; not to mention ~1km to lead the target). Honestly, the single time i had any problems with missiles was boarding a destroyer packed with Missile turrets.
- Overall balance pass on Missiles -> 1k MJ rockets with 1km/s speed feel quite weak when you compare it to an MK2 M size Bolt Repeater (doing 289 MJ/S with ~twice the bullet speed), which i've an unlimited supply of. They might be okay OoS, but yeah...
- Infromation in the encyclopedia on what missile types is used in which launcher
- Differentiate between missiles/rockets in terms of amount a ship can carry. Otherwise there isn't much sense to bring 40 rockets that quite likely do 0 damage, as they don't hit, when i can bring the same amount of smart missiles that at least sometimes hit.

Ship behaviour related:
- Check the docking behaviour of fighters to carriers - i've seen a repeating cycle of fighter groups docking until ~2 docks were free on raptors. Then 2 would fly in and dock there, just to have 2 other fighters undock and make place for them or something, repeating quite a while.
- Mimic Behaviour; Fighters Mimicing behaviour seem not to mimic "Fly to" commands? Meaning the group leader will engage travel drive, while the rest of the group sit still?
- new "Harass Enemies in Sector" command -> group/single ship based calculation of strength (influened by skill levels) and decide to engage weaker ships outside of the radius of other ships. If stronger ships enter that radius or there are only other ships, try to avoid them.
- new "Auto-Pirate" command (anchor sector, sector range and specific station to drop booty choosable) -> like harass enemies, but without trying to destroy ships, but rather make them drop cargo. Again with a check on percieved strength and avoidance of stronger enemies.
- new "Auto-Pick-up" command (anchor sector, sector range and staton to drop wares choosable) -> like the current pick up command, but for a sector and a station to actually drop the wares.

Station Behaviour Related:
- Having a station hacked is fine. But shouldn't our manager according to his level be able to send out transport drones to get some stock back, before it despawns?

-edit-
- Ship grouping into logical groups, without fleet settings
- Optional Renaming convention Rule - Attaching ships to stations auto renames to choosable order of e.g. : [StationName]-[Sector]-[Occupation]-[# in line of ships doing that occupation]; Bonus points for abbreviations for occupation (TRD - traders, MIN - Miner; GAS - Miner2; DEF - Defender); and secotrs (3 letters + number?).

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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by af_2017 » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:23

mr.WHO wrote:
Wed, 14. Apr 21, 09:36
- Missile rebalance (you need hundreds missiles to take out a station in L/XL ships, while Torpedos are only available to S/M ships).
i think this is intentional because i remember in xr it was possible to shred everything quite fast launching swarms of missiles from safe distance.
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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by af_2017 » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:33

terodil wrote:
Wed, 14. Apr 21, 10:41
How about the other AI stuff? I'm not fully up-to-date, but off the cuff I remember carrier behaviour, fleet behaviour (e.g. to members getting attacked), station balance, trader behaviour and others as issues that would seriously benefit from being looked at. And the basic commands ('defend'... lol) really HAVE to be looked at.
i am really not sure that if AI will become better the player will win.
the AI is the same for all factions right?
If AI will be improved for player that means it will become better for other factions also.
i agree that the universe will look more reasonable but the player most likely will be late always and everywhere)
Last edited by af_2017 on Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:34

I forgot one thing:

- ability to switch off ships holding all actions when player teleport/takeover ship control - the one that I always have to comm ship pilot and tell him "continue current order".

This is completely useless and irritating - If I happen to have ship leaving me behind and I don't have teleport, I can simply call it back to return to me, I absolutely don't need for the ship to wait for me EVER!

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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by chip56 » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:39

mr.WHO wrote:
Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:34
I forgot one thing:

- ability to switch off ships holding all actions when player teleport/takeover ship control - the one that I always have to comm ship pilot and tell him "continue current order".

This is completely useless and irritating - If I happen to have ship leaving me behind and I don't have teleport, I can simply call it back to return to me, I absolutely don't need for the ship to wait for me EVER!
Oh yeah. That one is so annoying. I so hate it when i give my co pilot a command to travel somewhere and dock. I am happily managing my empire when i hear the battle music and take control myself. Then i stand up again after all enemies are defeated and its either:
1) Wait until pilot decides to move to his seat again, takes his seat and i can finally tell him to "yes really i want you do your job again"
2) I get some message, check that and do other managment stuff only to find out after some time time that i didnt tell my pilot that i really still want to go to that mission relevant station and that he has not have an eternal break...

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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by Pares » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:41

To be honest, in my game at least it's like missiles are non-existent. I fought hundreds of Xenons, none of them used any missiles, but neither did any non-Xenon ships either, and I enganged quite a few of those too. I remember being targeted by missiles in 3.X, but it feels like their priority to be used by the NPC factions was massively reduced. Or maybe it's just my luck. But I agree that missiles need a total overhaul.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:44

Pares wrote:
Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:41
To be honest, in my game at least it's like missiles are non-existent. I fought hundreds of Xenons, none of them used any missiles, but neither did any non-Xenon ships either, and I enganged quite a few of those too. I remember being targeted by missiles in 3.X, but it feels like their priority to be used by the NPC factions was massively reduced. Or maybe it's just my luck. But I agree that missiles need a total overhaul.
Same here, but I think it's because main missile users are Argons and HOP - if you don't fight them you can forget about missile incoming.

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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by chip56 » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:50

The missle balance does feel off anyway. The few times i am targeted by missles its 90% they miss without me doing anything specific (and with turrets set to attack all, so not exactly like they are my saviours). And the remaining 10% they somewhow manage to take a katana down with one hit even though it was at full shields.

If i equip my ships with missles they dont really have any better OOS performance than if i would just use a normal turrets instead which would be far less hassle. Maybe all ships should get a fixed missle launcher with minimal storage and the missle turrets should get a higher storage and fire rather to make them more interesting?

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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by Raevyan » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 13:03

How about not being able to mass transfer trainees for group training to hq? Right now if you want to train 100 people you need 700 clicks to assign them to the hq and another 700 to get them off again...

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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by sh1pman » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 13:52

Another thing they should fix is Defence subordinate order. It is completely broken and doesn’t work OOS. Ships don’t respond to attacks on them or their leader.

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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by KextV8 » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 15:03

mr.WHO wrote:
Wed, 14. Apr 21, 09:36
.

QoL changes:
- ability to switch off ships holding all actions when player teleport/takeover ship control - the one that I always have to comm ship pilot and tell him "continue current order".
This is completely useless and irritating - If I happen to have ship leaving me behind and I don't have teleport, I can simply call it back to return to me, I absolutely don't need for the ship to wait for me EVER!
Lotta good stuff you mentioned. I'd however mention that I feel the opposite on this. My player ships are usually distinct from the rest of the ships I own. I highly prefer them to sit and do nothing when I'm teleporting around and if I want them to do something, I'll give them an order again.

But I see no wrong with it being a toggle option somewhere. Just don't take away the current behavior.

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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by naisha » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 16:33

YES PLEASE!

We have enough content, focus on fixing and improving the game please!
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Re: Can we start to polish the game after 4.0?

Post by Gigaflux » Wed, 14. Apr 21, 16:37

af_2017 wrote:
Wed, 14. Apr 21, 12:23
mr.WHO wrote:
Wed, 14. Apr 21, 09:36
- Missile rebalance (you need hundreds missiles to take out a station in L/XL ships, while Torpedos are only available to S/M ships).
i think this is intentional because i remember in xr it was possible to shred everything quite fast launching swarms of missiles from safe distance.
Well, af_2017, that sounds quite realistic, doesn't it? But what X4 misses (in contrast to X3) is a realistic scale of price/availability AND a specific operation purpose (=technical data) for each missile. Of course, the current missile/torp setting is questionable, like mr.WHO wrote.

[Here was a quite extensive long posting on my thoughts on missile types and their costs, but actually it doesn't contribute much to this topic :-) Just one remark: Good missiles should be expensive and slowly produceable only. Erradicating a whole sector in X3 was a very expensive project. Although like everything else: in the late game that was not a problem.]

But what might be really a problem: Travel speed! It is something I really like (though I don't think I really need it), but it makes the task for missile developement engineers much more complicate. Should every missile are able to switch into travel mode as well? Or should every missile somehow prevent ships to enable travel mode? Even disrupt it (to effectively stop ships, thinking in pirates)? Or maybe there should be a special, extremely fast EMP missile to disrupt the travel mode ...?

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