What about some new AI controls for player ships?

[Sangheilexx90]

Hey everyone, i was just thinking; it will be great to have some commands for your ships that are more specific and useful than "fly to", like keep at range (where you can actually choose the range where the ship wil stop from another ship or station, or orbit (where you can choose how far your ship/ships will orbit from the target, fleet engage (to allow your fleet ships to move to the target all together and at the same time, instead having 1 ship flyng to the target and getting obliteraded before the others reach it because they are still alligning to it), attack in formation ( where all your ships move to the target all together and keeping the formation you ordered them to mantain, instead getting to the target 1 by 1, getting murdered by enemy turrets because the ships actually stop doing anything to reposition themselves in the formation you previously ordered them to have).

What do you think guys?

[af_2017]

I think you need to watch movies instead of playing games. Because when the game plays itself it turns into movie where player needs nothing to do)

[Midnitewolf]

Hey everyone, i was just thinking; it will be great to have some commands for your ships that are more specific and useful than "fly to", like keep at range (where you can actually choose the range where the ship wil stop from another ship or station, or orbit (where you can choose how far your ship/ships will orbit from the target, fleet engage (to allow your fleet ships to move to the target all together and at the same time, instead having 1 ship flyng to the target and getting obliteraded before the others reach it because they are still alligning to it), attack in formation ( where all your ships move to the target all together and keeping the formation you ordered them to mantain, instead getting to the target 1 by 1, getting murdered by enemy turrets because the ships actually stop doing anything to reposition themselves in the formation you previously ordered them to have).

What do you think guys?

I agree. This game has so much to micro manage as it so a little automation would go a long way to make the game more fun. For me, the thing I have been begging for is a set of immediately executable orders that completely bypass the que. Things like, "Attack Now", "Fly Here Now", "Protect Position Now", etc. Basically it kills all other orders and does what you tell it to do right now. Fleet Command and Control right now is a nightmare because in the heat of an ever changing battle, it is so easy to forget that you commanded them to do something else a minute ago, just before reacting to 10 Xenon Destroyers jumping through the gate and requiring your fleet to immediately stop and attack them.

I also would love to see and extended command set where you can order ships from one fleet to protect ships from another. For example, I really want to have my carrier assign a wing of fighters to specifically defend the 5 destroyers I have in another fleet, all 5 at once, basically what one would call a CAP or Combat Air Patrol. However, it seems the only way you can current provide a CAP is to permanently assign fighters to the Destroyer Fleet AND I think you have to assign fighters to defend to EACH individual Destroyer. I don't think just assigning 20 fighters to defend the Fleet Leader actually will extend the fighters to defending all ships in the fleet, rather I think they just defend the Fleet Leader only.

I would also like ships to actually obey your orders and not just do what they will. If I order them to withdraw from combat or stop and hold fire, that does not mean attack the second you take fire from the enemy. I really want them to go where I tell them and do what I tell them to do....period. This is in line with what your asking to be honest. If I tell them to get into a specific formation, I want them to get into that formation. If I tell them to go to a specific spot, I want them all to go to the stop I tell them, not stop short 3km of the guidance point.

Honestly I can understand things being ragged and hard to control when you have 1-2 point captains but I have 4-5 star captains on all my cap ships and any smaller ships I roll with for specific tasks like cap'ing SCA destroyers and they still just do whatever the hell they want to do. At 4+ stars they really should be following commands nearly perfectly.

[af_2017]

I agree.

Please read your complain:

This game has so much to micro manage as it so a little automation would go a long way to make the game more fun.

And right after that you've asked for more micromanagment:

For me, the thing I have been begging for is a set of immediately executable orders that completely bypass the que. Things like, "Attack Now", "Fly Here Now", "Protect Position Now", etc.

That sounds strange at least.
As for me the game is to learn what abilities npcs have and learn to manage them.
Eventually all npcs fly the same way, all factions have same pilots as you have, none of them is better than others (5 star pilot is always same 5 star pilot for all factions).
I agree they might look not perfect and there are other implementations are possible but i don't think that will change the universe much. And yet even more: guess who will start to complain that npcs are too perfect and unbeatable?..

[Endealon]

I think you need to watch movies instead of playing games. Because when the game plays itself it turns into movie where player needs nothing to do)

This is the type of message that EgoSoft likes to read. ^

[capitalduty]

I agreed 100% with OP.

Egosoft, please, we really need more control over our fleets!!!

-Please add a way to set maximum distance/range to attack a target.
-Please add pinpoint accurate fly to order.
-Please add assault order (charge into close range <5km).
-Please make ships move and fight in formation when they are to "follow" leader.

Additionally I will love to see some quick commands implemented:
-Fleet attack my target.
-Fleet defend me.
-Fleet escape/flee battle.
-Fleet return into formation.

Finally you could take some ideas from "target subsystem" mod...virtually adds another level of tactical combat gameplay to the game!!

[Midnitewolf]

I agree.

Please read your complain:

This game has so much to micro manage as it so a little automation would go a long way to make the game more fun.

And right after that you've asked for more micromanagment:

For me, the thing I have been begging for is a set of immediately executable orders that completely bypass the que. Things like, "Attack Now", "Fly Here Now", "Protect Position Now", etc.

That sounds strange at least.
As for me the game is to learn what abilities npcs have and learn to manage them.
Eventually all npcs fly the same way, all factions have same pilots as you have, none of them is better than others (5 star pilot is always same 5 star pilot for all factions).
I agree they might look not perfect and there are other implementations are possible but i don't think that will change the universe much. And yet even more: guess who will start to complain that npcs are too perfect and unbeatable?..

Not sure what you mean by more micromanagement?

Lets see. If I want a fleet to move somewhere. I have to remember to click "Remove all Orders" prior to issuing another order. Then click "Fly and Wait". Then if I want to change the location where they are flying to, I have to again click, "Remove all orders" and re-issue the "Fly and Wait" command.

That is 4 steps of micro to just change your destination from your original order.

With a "Fly Here Now" option. I can eliminate the 1st "Remove all orders" from the sequence and even after changing my mind, all it takes is another simple command to "Fly Here now" which removes the need to issue the 2nd "Remove all orders". One addition to the commands eliminates TWO steps and I don't have to remember that I had previously issued order to move to the first point, I just click, command and done. STEAMLINED, QUICK, EASY, LESS MICRO.

As far as NPCs and the star system, my opinion is that just adds a level of complexity that the AI can't handle. Remember that each script you add to the AI cause overhead and reduces performance. Having 5 separate scripts to reflect 5 separate skills levels, with their own capabilities just confuses the hell out of the AI and makes things run slower over all.

I mean I get it. If you have everything too perfect then it isn't a challenging game. I don't want that either. But I shouldn't have to fight the game mechanics and command structure more than the Xenon when playing the game. That is just frustrating.

Adding immediately executable orders does nothing to diminish the game. In fact it enhances the game because it add the ability to play the game in true REAL TIME without pauses to ensure everything is moving like you intend.

Also, not having your ship captains act the "R Word" all the damn time doesn't take away from the game. It enhances it because your not dealing with mass levels of frustration all the time. Keep in mind, my captains for all my L and XL ships are all a minimum of 4 stars with many of them being 5 stars. Still, half the time, I can't get my squadrons to form up in a simple circle which the game lists as a ZERO star complexity formation. The level of stupid programed into 4-5 star captains is ridiculous.

All I want is my ships to do at least a rough approximation of what I tell them to do, when I tell them to do it. Go there now. Attack this now. Protect that area now. Get into a circle formation now, cease fire now. It doesn't have to be perfect, it is ok if that circle formation is lopsided. It is ok if one or two of my ships lag a bit or drift closer to the station I am trying to destroy that I would like, but having them do that "Rough Approximation" is the key, especially at 4-5 stars.

[F.L.O.]

Why isnt overriding the standard for orders you give?
Anyone who thinks the current four clicks to move a ship is fine, either loves to pause his game, or never tried to convince a pilot to "fly and wait" somewhere safe, while he is part of a fleet and about to lose his shielding.

To do that you have to see a ship is getting focused, click on it, order it to fly and wait, and then... have to find the blue line connecting the ship and the attacked target(s), or jump into the behavior menu and remove every attack order. If you just click "remove all orders" it removes the "fly and wait" order aswell and goes back to do what its told to by the fleet commander. The other route would be to click on "Remove all orders and assignments", which saves the current situation but just transfers the clicks you need to get the ship out of that situation into the future when the shields are back up and you want to get it back into the fight. It also a mess if you have multiple fleets at work in the same area. (Multiple smaller fleets reduce the times "coordinated attack" acts like a diva.)

I would love the "fly here NOW", and "attack this NOW" commands. I would also love a command that tells your capitals to hold a position at X km distance from a station, which is something you simply cant order right now. Before someone comes around the corner and starts with "but coordinated...", thats not what it does. Coordinated attack gathers your ships at a FIXED distance and once all ships are in place they all turn into the knights of the coconut and charge. Atleast some of them. Others just stay in place like they should.

[Endealon]

Before someone comes around the corner and starts with "but coordinated...", thats not what it does. Coordinated attack gathers your ships at a FIXED distance and once all ships are in place they all turn into the knights of the coconut and charge. Atleast some of them. Others just stay in place like they should.

More than 3 years of development and 4 updates later, this is what we have. Amazing.

[Midnitewolf]

Why isnt overriding the standard for orders you give?
Anyone who thinks the current four clicks to move a ship is fine, either loves to pause his game, or never tried to convince a pilot to "fly and wait" somewhere safe, while he is part of a fleet and about to lose his shielding.

To do that you have to see a ship is getting focused, click on it, order it to fly and wait, and then... have to find the blue line connecting the ship and the attacked target(s), or jump into the behavior menu and remove every attack order. If you just click "remove all orders" it removes the "fly and wait" order aswell and goes back to do what its told to by the fleet commander. The other route would be to click on "Remove all orders and assignments", which saves the current situation but just transfers the clicks you need to get the ship out of that situation into the future when the shields are back up and you want to get it back into the fight. It also a mess if you have multiple fleets at work in the same area. (Multiple smaller fleets reduce the times "coordinated attack" acts like a diva.)

I would love the "fly here NOW", and "attack this NOW" commands. I would also love a command that tells your capitals to hold a position at X km distance from a station, which is something you simply cant order right now. Before someone comes around the corner and starts with "but coordinated...", thats not what it does. Coordinated attack gathers your ships at a FIXED distance and once all ships are in place they all turn into the knights of the coconut and charge. Atleast some of them. Others just stay in place like they should.

Yeah this is exactly my point. The way I would like to play is commanding from the bridge of one of my ships while it is battle, real time bouncing back and forth between watching the battle play out in cinematic mode and giving orders off the map based on what I am observing again in REAL TIME, no pausing. What I get is hitting the pause button every 3-4 minutes as I struggle to figure out why the carrier I ordered to back of is charging right into the thickest part of the battle FIGHTING the UI and command system to try to get it to actually listen to orders and fall back...right up until it gets focused a dies. Meanwhile, my entire fleet has retreated for god knows what reason....oh yeah, I actually wanted them to go back an repair but when I saw my Carrier yoloing into the enemy, I ordered them to attack the enemy instead,....which they were planning to do right after the repair since I forgot to remove first set of orders in the panic to try to save my carrier.

That is my experience with Fleet combat. Hours on the map, fighting the UI and command structure, usually enjoying that riveting paused game action, while only having to experiencing that boring real time combat action for a few minute at a time here and there. <sarcasm>. It is disappointing to say to the least especially when anyone smart enough to program a game SHOULD be smart enough to realize the need for quick, easy and intuitive commands. It honestly makes me wonder if the dev who actually designed the UI and command systems actually played a full run though of the game because I don't see how anyone who has done so couldn't have slapped his palm to his forehead and said, "Duh, what was I thinking, fast paced combat, needs fast a fast paced command system."

[Wraith_Magus]

I could play X3 in real time, even doing things like flying while ordering in allies to jump in through the map while being shot at in an M5. The incredibly convoluted interface of X4 mean I can't do anything with allies at all without pausing.

I have to CONSTANTLY babysit my allies in X4. Having a default setting of "Use Judgement" when trying to decide whether to run or fight for all ships is a joke, because my miners seem to always judge that they can take a half-dozen kha'aak or a whole Xenon raiding party, so I have to manually set every single mining and trader ship to "flee".

Likewise, if I have a mission to attack a Xenon station, and I want to take advantage of long-range destroyer weapons to snipe turrets from range, but don't want to get swarmed by the 90 Ms that will crawl out of the woodwork to disable my shields, I'll need to bring corvettes to cover my destroyers... but I have to CONSTANTLY micromanage the corvettes that do unbelievably stupid things like boost constantly for no reason until out of shields directly on top of the Xenon defense platform, or ram directly into Ks.

Having an option to just tell my ships "DO NOT GO NEAR THE GIANT DOOM TURRETS, YOU DROOLING IDIOTS!" is NOT more micromanagement, it is VASTLY less than what the current game forces upon us.

[Midnitewolf]

Last night I encountered a prime example for why we need extended and immediately executable orders.

I had ordered two fleets to go to a gate where the Xenon were coming though and raiding. I had lost something like 80 million worth of shipping to these raids and I had, had enough. I planned on using my fleets to guard the gate while I put in a large defense platform to bottle up the Xenon.

Well my fleets showed up staggered and the first fleet that got there with consisted of 5 Destroyers, 6 M Frigates and 20 fighter got to the gate just as an entire Xenon Fleet emerged and my first fleet got caught wildly out of position at point blank range. The second fleet wasn't too far behind so I though I could handle it but I was wrong. I lost 2 DDs in about a minute. Realizing that it was a cluster and I needed to reorganized, I ordered my second fleet to fly to a rendezvous point and proceeded to command the remainder of my 1st fleet to disengage and this is where it went all to hell.

I told the 1st fleet to fly and wait at the rendezvous point so it proceeded to completely stop moving and "Recall Subordinates" which just made them sitting ducks to the Xenon. I had to PAUSE then tried to have each individual ship extract as best they could, basically to scatter in the most convenient direction to do so however they didn't want to do that because they were attached to the fleet and wanted to follow the commander. I had to PAUSE then had to break up the entire fleet and command each ship to run separately which sort of worked except since I had my fleet set to retaliate, they would immediately turn and re-engage which meant their death. I had to PAUSE and order each ship to flee combat individually thinking they would, "Fly and Wait" where I had previous told them to go but nope as soon as I gave them the Flee command, they decided to go to the gate which was on the other side of the Xenon force. I had to PAUSE and well by this time, all except one of my destroyers were dead and it became easy ordering around the SINGLE destroyer left to do what I wanted it to do.

This really should have been as simple as click the Fleet, Click "Fly now" and click where I wanted them to go and ALL the damn ships should have turned in that direction and flew to the point I indicated. This is what I mean by having to fight the UI and Command structure more than fighting the enemy.

Also I am not saying that there isn't some way to manipulate the system to force ships to do what you want them to do, some hidden combination of commands that make things work. I am just saying, I shouldn't have to manipulate the system using some complex, obtuse, unintuitive method to have my fleet withdraw from combat and go to the point I indicate.

[Alkeena]

*Ahem* viewtopic.php?f=181&t=437371

[F.L.O.]

It is always nice to have mods step up and implement features that should be in the game in the first place, but since Egosoft handles everyone who uses mods like a Leper, it isnt a satisfactory solution.

Edit: Just noticed you are the Author. Thanks a lot for your work. Already using it and are very happy about it being a thing.