Make Xenons great again

[SunGod1]

in my game I watched OOS as one of my fleets of 2 syn 1 Asgard and a Honshu... took out 4 Ks and a I on attack targets repeat orders. I did move the Honshu away from the i manually and thought it was a goner but they could never bring the shields down to hurt it.
So... not a dent in any of my ships at all... I am running a few mods but nothing that alters stock weapon balance, so in a war of attrition the Xenon do not have a chance in hell vs TER tech.

[spankahontis]

We are currently playing 4.0 HF3, so it would be HF4 or 4.x. The "venture" thingy will probably pop in in less than three years.

I consider hacking to be dishonest. Besides, to hack you need to dock and for dock you need that "reputation". I have some "reputation"; it was -15 when the TER did show up. With some effort I got it to -30. Not quite enough to dock yet, but at least they allow me to shoot the production terminal.

Not that I need to; they seem to have resource shortage. After pumping out dozen Asgards and Tokyos the TER are quite quiet. I did just some light recon in Sol. What a shame; TER can't provide a decent war any more than XEN.

It does not "look" that TEL takes XEN sectors. They do, alone. No TER has visited those sectors. In fact, TEL took most of them before 4.0. If OOS was "better" for XEN before 4.0, then it still was not very good.

I've seen the Terrans launch Expeditionary Forces to Company Regard. What looked to be the Xenon steamrolling into Hewa's Twin is now not so certain as the Teladi (Thanks to the Terrans) have regained their fleet numbers and Xenon Stations in Company Regard have been laid to waste except for a couple of Defense Stations which are being hit on the map.
Only relevant Xenon sectors are Attiya's Misfortune and Scale Plate Green.. The other Sectors are over run and their ends are inevitable, their Shipyards/Wharfs are being hit, it's the fact these stations are heavily protected with drones that distract the attacking forces ships while it's turrets are free to shoot unimpeded. That's all that's saving the Xenon right now.

[jlehtone]

My galaxy after 441.5 hours is in "better" shape. For now.

[Raptor34]

in my game I watched OOS as one of my fleets of 2 syn 1 Asgard and a Honshu... took out 4 Ks and a I on attack targets repeat orders. I did move the Honshu away from the i manually and thought it was a goner but they could never bring the shields down to hurt it.
So... not a dent in any of my ships at all... I am running a few mods but nothing that alters stock weapon balance, so in a war of attrition the Xenon do not have a chance in hell vs TER tech.

Lucky. I checked back and one of my Hoshous somehow got themselves blown up by an I. Along with probably 20+ Interceptors.
And that's with a fleet of 3 Tokyos, 1 Asgard, 2 Syns and 3 Osakas with around a 100 fighters.

[spankahontis]

My galaxy after 441.5 hours is in "better" shape. For now.

Yours is allot different than mine, the Zyarth Patriarchy aren't weakened in mine, they have taken most the Xenon territory, neighbouring them. I had to build an Administration in Xenon Matrix #79B to stop the Split reaching Savage Spur I.
I left the Xenon in Tharka's Ravine: Tharka's fall and they've still kept that territory, but I see no ships there, so they may of lost them.
Hatikvah took Silent Witness XI? First time i've seen them expand?
Xenon are just holding onto Matrix #9 from the Teladi but it's only a matter of time.
They lost Frontier Edge as well in mine, but they still hold on to Faulty Logic VII and the Godrealm have taken Pontifex's Claim as well in mine, also they managed to take advantage of the Teladi losing Bright Promise. Godrealm is looking unstoppable at the moment, Emperor Mines is hanging on a thread, their Shipyard and Wharf is all that's left.

Scale Plate Green was the only place the Xenon looked threatening and they are slowly being pushed back by the Terrans and the Teladi.

There must be a way to buff them up in times of crisis?

[jlehtone]

I left the Xenon in Tharka's Ravine: Tharka's fall and they've still kept that territory, but I see no ships there, so they may of lost them.
Hatikvah took Silent Witness XI? First time i've seen them expand?

Tharka's Fall became empty on its own. Not sure when and how. I did park my assets there just before 4.0.

Silent XI is probably my doing. A generic mission from HAT did request a defence station ...

[Xarvos]

After 1.3k vanilla gameplay and 4.0 making xenon's so weak that they are being wiped out by day 6-8 without player help made me go for mods (focw+faction war ench+vro+no highway) and I'll probably can't go back to vanilla anymore .

Around 30 hrs in my first modded playthru and xenon are taking sectors from ZYA/ANT/TEL and me running around in my lone Syn trying to keep Xenon at bay.
Mission war of intervention Terran's get straight up wiped out in Tharkas Cascade (Xenons got some serious firepowah there).

And end note I really like longer range combat of vro. Only annoyance is ships like centaur and titan feel bit out of place Imo might mod em out myself

[Raptor34]

My galaxy after 441.5 hours is in "better" shape. For now.

Yours is allot different than mine, the Zyarth Patriarchy aren't weakened in mine, they have taken most the Xenon territory, neighbouring them. I had to build an Administration in Xenon Matrix #79B to stop the Split reaching Savage Spur I.
I left the Xenon in Tharka's Ravine: Tharka's fall and they've still kept that territory, but I see no ships there, so they may of lost them.
Hatikvah took Silent Witness XI? First time i've seen them expand?
Xenon are just holding onto Matrix #9 from the Teladi but it's only a matter of time.
They lost Frontier Edge as well in mine, but they still hold on to Faulty Logic VII and the Godrealm have taken Pontifex's Claim as well in mine, also they managed to take advantage of the Teladi losing Bright Promise. Godrealm is looking unstoppable at the moment, Emperor Mines is hanging on a thread, their Shipyard and Wharf is all that's left.

Scale Plate Green was the only place the Xenon looked threatening and they are slowly being pushed back by the Terrans and the Teladi.

There must be a way to buff them up in times of crisis?

I'm pretty much taking advantage of how sector control works among other things to hold the factions back too.
For me, Scale Plate and Emperor's Pride? Mines? whatever the Northwest one is called are absolutely swarming with Xenon, though fairly passive. Scale Plate occasionally pushes out a fleet into Company Regard though, and runs into 6-8 Phoenixes.
Savage Spur pocket is dead, for some reason, managed to hold off the ZYA from further expanding by contesting sector control. Like I seriously have no idea what's wrong there, they've literally rolled over and died.
Same for Atiya's Misfortune, they actually performed excellently early, holding and even once retaking Faulty Logic from the HOP and grabbing Frontier's Edge. But after awhile they've rolled over too, though their shipyard/wharf is chewing up ANT Behemoths. Khaak is not helping as I've seen them there too, probably killing miners. Not mentioned is me helping ANT grab Frontier's Edge by pushing a fleet there to defend their defense station and supplying them with ships, but after that clearing the sector was all ANT while I pushed my fleet to the gate to stem further reinforcements after ANT somehow killed the defense station there.
Matrix to the North of ZYA also rolled over and died, but their shipyard/wharf are at least being a black hole for ZYA rattlesnakes, but I was helping ARG build their 70 L Plasma defense station in Eleventh Hour by supplying them so Rattlesnake losses there are probably what helps the Xenon hold on. Actually since the hull repair nerf I've noticed that factions generally cannot kill shipyard/wharves, not in a timely manner anyway, but it might fall eventually, eventually being probably days if not weeks in game. Not counting Asgards of course, that's why I Asgard those personally and am now blocking the XL fab in The Moon.

The Matrix between FRF and TEL otoh, is being an absolute powerhouse atm. Its where I lost my Houshou to an I somehow, and probably 99% of my fighter losses comes from Fires of Defeat. TEL regularly sends 2-3 Phoenixes into Matrix 451 and lose them, I thought they would lose it at first with the TEL starting to pop factories all over that sector. But it seems the resurgence of the Xenon in that sector coincided with the above mentioned sectors basically giving up.

I left the Xenon in Tharka's Ravine: Tharka's fall and they've still kept that territory, but I see no ships there, so they may of lost them.
Hatikvah took Silent Witness XI? First time i've seen them expand?

Tharka's Fall became empty on its own. Not sure when and how. I did park my assets there just before 4.0.

Silent XI is probably my doing. A generic mission from HAT did request a defence station ...

I've noticed Tharka's Fall on a new COH game that there is a single XEN defense station there while it remains unclaimed. Perhaps a bug? I've never went and scout the station personally, only remotely.

[jlehtone]

I've noticed Tharka's Fall on a new COH game that there is a single XEN defense station there while it remains unclaimed. Perhaps a bug? I've never went and scout the station personally, only remotely.

At 155 hours Xenon were still in Tharka's Fall. Game version was 3.30.
At 233 hours it was already abandoned.

[Tharrg]

I don't think you have fully understood what the balancing issue is. It's not just about how strong the Xenon are in combat against the player, or how aggressive they are - it's about the potential to collapse the entire in-game economy. This isn't just a wild assumption; we conducted lengthy tests, in which we found that even just adjusting the strength of a couple of Xenon weapons could be enough to significantly change the whole game.

Why is collapsing the in-game economy necessarily a bad thing? Making it so the player character is necessary to save the Galaxy might be an interesting scenario.

[Karmaticdamage]

Its not just the terrans. The player rarely witnesses it, but xenon mining ships are being attacked and killed off by the new 4.0 khaak the same as any other faction.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Matrix #9 in my game has 7 K and an I just waiting for me to pop my head through the gate.
With a veritable armada of smaller ships.

I tested the waters not long ago and was wiped. Not sure how much more "great" the Xenons actually need.

[jlehtone]

Matrix #9 in my game has 7 K and an I just waiting for me to pop my head through the gate.
With a veritable armada of smaller ships.

I tested the waters not long ago and was wiped. Not sure how much more "great" the Xenons actually need.

Elsewhere:

For example, one of their [Xenon] fleets is comprised of a K, 3 Ps, and 12 Ms or Ns. (There is some variability with some of the fleets but this particular one is very rigid.) This fleet has a galaxy quota of 6, and a cluster quota of 4. At game start, these fleets might concentrate in two clusters leaving gaps elsewhere, or spread out over six clusters spreading themselves thin. If they lose ground, they tend to concentrate, reaching maximum saturation at 2 clusters assuming they are able to build all of these fleets with the resources and production capacity of those two clusters.

If four such fleets are in #9 (4K, 12P, 48[MN]), then at most two are in (some) other sectors. An "I fleet" has at least 1I and 2K. The seventh K ... don't know.

Basically, almost all Xenon in your Galaxy are in #9. As long as they stay there, all the other Xenon sectors are weak.

[Alm888]

In my 4.0 game Xenon are total pushovers. It is not that they've lost all of their forces; no, instead they are trying their best to not lose anything.

In fact, it seems they are trying so hard that even slight possibility of hostile contact forces them to withdraw further into their territory.

TEL have captured "Matrix #451" and "Turquoise Sea" and are on the doorstep to "Scale Plate Green" What do Xenon do? Are they mounting a blockade on the other side of the gates? NO, they've retracted all of their forces to a shipyard.

Both ANT and HOP are invading the "Atiya's Misfortune" -- "Faulty Logic" cluster. The Xenon do have an I and 6-7 K plus various S-M ships there. Do they try to obliterate ANT or HOP defense stations near the entrance? NO, they've retreated to AM_III-FL_VII !!! They still have their defense platforms in AM_I and FL_I and both superhighways are not under siege, but no Xenon protection could be seen. I'm sure, if it was possible, the Xenon would evacuate their Defense Platforms as well!

Some TER fleet marched to Savage Spur I (that's right, trough Tharka's Cascade->Matrix #79B), obliterated both the Yaki base and Xenon Wharf and Shipyard in Savage Spur I. No meaningful resistance from Xenon.

Never, not even once have I seen a message about increased Xenon reconnaissance or "mounting defense" somewhere. It seems the Xenon just do not want to win! In fact, they are doing everything possible to lose, even without my involvement at all.

[Sauerlandbub]

In my game many destroyer (5-12) of different faction are waiting at gates for xenon to come out.
If a K shows his nose he is killed before his back is out of gate.

Only one sector was taken by Xenon, but they lost some.
Turquoise Sea is completely empty, they do not overtake it.

[jlehtone]

If a K shows his nose he is killed before his back is out of gate.

What they have and what they do.

In what conditions does a faction "show their nose"?
You can be very aggressive and send every ship immediately to raids. They go alone and die quick. You can't build an effective fleet that way.
You can be passive and never leave home. You may, or may not have a huge fleet. Probably do, eventually. It could squash suicide runners easily.
Or, you could be passive until you become strong. Then you send armada.

If Xenon are allowed to build big, but are forced to stay passive, then they are a challenge only when player explicitly attacks them.
If Xenon fleets cannot grow, but do continuously raid, then they are a continuous (minor) harassment whether player likes that or not.
If Xenon do raids with big fleets, then they are a serious threat as they can steamroll.

I have a feeling that Xenon became more passive already with 3.30. Either that or something that I or factions did did toggle them into "wait for condition X before attack"-state.

[chasepack]

I wonder if the Intervention fleet is doing too much to weaken the Xenon. I get it, that it is their role.
But the xenon should not be push-overs either, they probably should double down their effort with every capship/station/sector loss.

The northern map in my 3.30 game is rampant with Xenon... while the 4.0 game is kinda meh... the xenon are getting tangled up with Ter... so the split gets to field fleets of multiple rattlesnakes at the xenon...

Currently the Intervention asgard or tokyo typically wipes the gate defenses then floats around pretty until sometime finally overwhelms them.
Though I seem to recall seeing an Intervention Tokyo going back to the Moon for repairs (with a bunch of half damaged S ships in tow)

The Ks and Is were far more scary without the Terrans around.
The ATF ships are like the anti-venom to xenon's poison

i wonder if its possible or is there already a mod that rubberbands the aggressiveness of the Xenon according to how much it gains/loses...

[spankahontis]

I've noticed Tharka's Fall on a new COH game that there is a single XEN defense station there while it remains unclaimed. Perhaps a bug? I've never went and scout the station personally, only remotely.

At 155 hours Xenon were still in Tharka's Fall. Game version was 3.30.
At 233 hours it was already abandoned.

It starts with a huge Xenon force, but it has no Shipyard or Wharf so eventually it's whittled away into nothing.

[Raevyan]

Can we make xenons great again without waiting another couple of month until 4.10 is released??? It’s already too late to fix the oos calculations because this won’t do anything if there are no xenons left in the game.

[jlehtone]

"Some NPC might die brutally to keep the Xenon alive until then, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
Lord F.