Make Xenons great again

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slober
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by slober » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 09:11

mr.WHO wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 08:54
Fenris321 wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 08:26
From what I've seen in this playthrough, the Xenon do not defend their owned sectors with anything more than a token force. I get that a lot of people might not want a hyper aggressive Xenon in the game, but when an owned sector is being attacked that's the time to get aggressive. They had plenty of miners and power distribution units in that sector at one time, I just think it would have made sense for them to start building some capital ships as soon as stations started going up in their territory. Then again, maybe I just missed those fights and they simply got wiped out in OOS combat.
In my game, Xenons took Northern Paranid sectors days ago (game time) yet they still can't wipe out a few production stations left in the area - they send a few fighters and corvettes from time to time and odd Xenon K just to die to petty Ore refinery station.
Xenons are able to destroy Defend stations. And they can build their DefStation in the sector BUT!
Xenons are not able to destroy any factory. That is why some times some players have situation when sector full of factories but sector doesn't have the owner.
That is why on the Map it looks like Xenons did something but they don't for real :lol: And they are not able to do it. Everything because of L Beam.

You can check by yourself or just check the videos below (unfortunately how I understand devs don't want to touch(fix) turrets that is why I don't know when it will be fixed)
https://youtu.be/opxQhIE0qUg. (DefStation and Factory under attack of XEN Ks) - this is explanation why XEN some times can change colour of sector.
https://youtu.be/X4AUjlMnJRc. (2 factories under attack of 2 XEN Ks) - it shows why XEN are not able to take any sector for real.

Raptor34
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Raptor34 » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 09:13

Fenris321 wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 08:26
From what I've seen in this playthrough, the Xenon do not defend their owned sectors with anything more than a token force. I get that a lot of people might not want a hyper aggressive Xenon in the game, but when an owned sector is being attacked that's the time to get aggressive. They had plenty of miners and power distribution units in that sector at one time, I just think it would have made sense for them to start building some capital ships as soon as stations started going up in their territory. Then again, maybe I just missed those fights and they simply got wiped out in OOS combat.
I think its a jobs quota problem. They aren't fairly distributed.
Case in point Emperor's Pride has around 8 or so Ks. Scale Plate region probably has 12+ Ks while the Matrixes next to Fires of Defeat has 6 or so Ks. And tons of S/M each.
Every other Xenon pocket otoh has 0-2Ks.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by mr.WHO » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 09:31

slober wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 09:11
Xenons are able to destroy Defend stations. And they can build their DefStation in the sector BUT!
Xenons are not able to destroy any factory. That is why some times some players have situation when sector full of factories but sector doesn't have the owner.
That is why on the Map it looks like Xenons did something but they don't for real :lol: And they are not able to do it. Everything because of L Beam.

You can check by yourself or just check the videos below (unfortunately how I understand devs don't want to touch(fix) turrets that is why I don't know when it will be fixed)
https://youtu.be/opxQhIE0qUg. (DefStation and Factory under attack of XEN Ks) - this is explanation why XEN some times can change colour of sector.
https://youtu.be/X4AUjlMnJRc. (2 factories under attack of 2 XEN Ks) - it shows why XEN are not able to take any sector for real.
That could be slightly fixed by introducing proper destroyer (with main batteries) for Xenons. Both K and I inherent weakness is they reliance on fragile turrets.

Raptor34
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Raptor34 » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 09:38

mr.WHO wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 09:31
slober wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 09:11
Xenons are able to destroy Defend stations. And they can build their DefStation in the sector BUT!
Xenons are not able to destroy any factory. That is why some times some players have situation when sector full of factories but sector doesn't have the owner.
That is why on the Map it looks like Xenons did something but they don't for real :lol: And they are not able to do it. Everything because of L Beam.

You can check by yourself or just check the videos below (unfortunately how I understand devs don't want to touch(fix) turrets that is why I don't know when it will be fixed)
https://youtu.be/opxQhIE0qUg. (DefStation and Factory under attack of XEN Ks) - this is explanation why XEN some times can change colour of sector.
https://youtu.be/X4AUjlMnJRc. (2 factories under attack of 2 XEN Ks) - it shows why XEN are not able to take any sector for real.
That could be slightly fixed by introducing proper destroyer (with main batteries) for Xenons. Both K and I inherent weakness is they reliance on fragile turrets.
Main batteries could be destroyed too though. But not OOS it seems.

slober
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by slober » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 09:40

mr.WHO wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 09:31
slober wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 09:11
Xenons are able to destroy Defend stations. And they can build their DefStation in the sector BUT!
Xenons are not able to destroy any factory. That is why some times some players have situation when sector full of factories but sector doesn't have the owner.
That is why on the Map it looks like Xenons did something but they don't for real :lol: And they are not able to do it. Everything because of L Beam.

You can check by yourself or just check the videos below (unfortunately how I understand devs don't want to touch(fix) turrets that is why I don't know when it will be fixed)
https://youtu.be/opxQhIE0qUg. (DefStation and Factory under attack of XEN Ks) - this is explanation why XEN some times can change colour of sector.
https://youtu.be/X4AUjlMnJRc. (2 factories under attack of 2 XEN Ks) - it shows why XEN are not able to take any sector for real.
That could be slightly fixed by introducing proper destroyer (with main batteries) for Xenons. Both K and I inherent weakness is they reliance on fragile turrets.
It is true. It is very easy target for destroyer with main batteries. And it is next BUG :)
All faction shipyards and Wharfs can be easily destroyed by any 1 destroyer. Because of L beam turrets :evil:
That is why some players complain that Profit Centre Alpha doesn't have some common stations. They where destroyed by accident by 1 FAF Rattlesnake :lol:

nemo1887
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by nemo1887 » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 10:01

earthlings are for nothing , the xenons that remained in my games were swept by paranide , the xenons are asleep weak they react no more!! , I have other backup where they are present in multiple sectors and before it was difficult to stop them ,They attack in numbers ! , the I tried they don’t move anymore!! they are weak!!

Raevyan
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Raevyan » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 10:39

The problem I see is how Egosoft is gonna bring them back into the games where they are already gone. They sure can fix the combat issues but that won’t bring the xenons back to live. I just don’t see them spawning new Xenons en masse in original xenon sectors. The only solution, would be to only spawn them in xenon owned sectors, but what if there are no xenon sectors? Well the only solution would be to create new sectors that are connected to existing xenon sectors and spawn a sizable fleet and resources in it for them to get going again.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by mr.WHO » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 10:56

rene6740 wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 10:39
The problem I see is how Egosoft is gonna bring them back into the games where they are already gone. They sure can fix the combat issues but that won’t bring the xenons back to live. I just don’t see them spawning new Xenons en masse in original xenon sectors. The only solution, would be to only spawn them in xenon owned sectors, but what if there are no xenon sectors? Well the only solution would be to create new sectors that are connected to existing xenon sectors and spawn a sizable fleet and resources in it for them to get going again.
There are plenty inactive gates all around galaxy - you could use them to periodically spawn Xenon invasions if all Xenon sectors are wiped out.

Karmaticdamage
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Karmaticdamage » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 11:10

The xenon didn't get weaker with the expansion. The reason they are not doing as well anymore is because of the terran intervention asgard fleets that attack them in their home sectors all across the map. If you want to fix the xenon, nerf asgards in OOS combat.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by mr.WHO » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 11:21

Karmaticdamage wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 11:10
The xenon didn't get weaker with the expansion. The reason they are not doing as well anymore is because of the terran intervention asgard fleets that attack them in their home sectors all across the map. If you want to fix the xenon, nerf asgards in OOS combat.
Not true - I was observing S-E Xenons, far from any Terran and they sux against even Teladi. Having long observation in OOS I think the issue is that their turrets on Ks and Is are getting destroy too fast, making them actually helpless targets that menacing invader.

slober
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by slober » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 11:23

The issue is very simple. Nobody need to nerf Asgard or something.
Developers can't find a good way how to balance Xenons and make everyone happy AND players don't know what they want :lol: . A lot of complaints about strong or weak xenons.

I hope this BugReport with some idea of xenons balancing get some attention from developers and we all will get what we want
viewtopic.php?f=192&t=437335

slowdancer3
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by slowdancer3 » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 11:31

I do not believe that the Xenon ships are too weak for the following reason:

viewtopic.php?f=146&t=436064&start=15#p5041888

A possible way to protect the endangered species from the consequences of game development and irreversible patching was mentioned above: viewtopic.php?f=146&t=437317&start=15#p5041890

One or more special sectors on the edge of the universe would do the trick, blocked by one-way gates (as done with Savage Spur I) and accessible (for the player) only through stable black holes as present in the game as well. There could be a resource rich Xenon reservation, a Xenon zoo (so to say) not exposed to other factions. There the devs could always adjust the desired degree of Xenon pressure on the universe. A player who really wants to get rid of any Xenon presence for good would have to bring considerable forces piece by piece through the anomalies into Xenon motherland ...

slober
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by slober » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 11:39

slowdancer3 wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 11:31
I do not believe that the Xenon ships are too weak for the following reason:

viewtopic.php?f=146&t=436064&start=15#p5041888

A possible way to protect the endangered species from the consequences of game development and irreversible patching was mentioned above: viewtopic.php?f=146&t=437317&start=15#p5041890

One or more special sectors on the edge of the universe would do the trick, blocked by one-way gates (as done with Savage Spur I) and accessible (for the player) only through stable black holes as present in the game as well. There could be a resource rich Xenon reservation, a Xenon zoo (so to say) not exposed to other factions. There the devs could always adjust the desired degree of Xenon pressure on the universe. A player who really wants to get rid of any Xenon presence for good would have to bring considerable forces piece by piece through the anomalies into Xenon motherland ...
Any solar plant with L Beam turrets next to that gate or worm hall will stop and destroy all xenons :)

Maebius
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Maebius » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 11:50

Karmaticdamage wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 11:10
The xenon didn't get weaker with the expansion. The reason they are not doing as well anymore is because of the terran intervention asgard fleets that attack them in their home sectors all across the map. If you want to fix the xenon, nerf asgards in OOS combat.
If you side with Antigone in the war plot, maybe the Terrans have their hands full to "spare" Asgards to send for Interdictions?

Raevyan
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Raevyan » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 12:39

It‘s been confirmed by devs (discord) that there is an inbalance in the oos calculation for Xenons.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by mr.WHO » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 12:45

There is an Egosoft discord?

FatalKeks
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by FatalKeks » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 12:50

rene6740 wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 12:39
It‘s been confirmed by devs (discord) that there is an inbalance in the oos calculation for Xenons.
What exactly did they say?
mr.WHO wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 12:45
There is an Egosoft discord?

viewtopic.php?t=395623

Raptor34
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Raptor34 » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 12:57

rene6740 wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 12:39
It‘s been confirmed by devs (discord) that there is an inbalance in the oos calculation for Xenons.
The irony is that if the AI works intelligently there isn't really such an imbalance. Because all non-Xenon ships outrange Xenon ships, and they ain't exactly super fast either.
They need more numbers though.

Raevyan
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by Raevyan » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 13:32

FatalKeks wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 12:50
rene6740 wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 12:39
It‘s been confirmed by devs (discord) that there is an inbalance in the oos calculation for Xenons.
What exactly did they say?
„ But seriously, we're aware of the low attention discrepancy with them“ https://discord.com/channels/337098290 ... 1217946634

FatalKeks
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Re: Make Xenons great again

Post by FatalKeks » Fri, 16. Apr 21, 13:56

rene6740 wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 13:32
FatalKeks wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 12:50
rene6740 wrote:
Fri, 16. Apr 21, 12:39
It‘s been confirmed by devs (discord) that there is an inbalance in the oos calculation for Xenons.
What exactly did they say?
„ But seriously, we're aware of the low attention discrepancy with them“ https://discord.com/channels/337098290 ... 1217946634
Thanks!

Hope they will do something about it in the next patch.

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