[Suggestion]Why don't make a Scout be a real Scout

[zergline117s]

Make scout(M5) has, like 80km or 100km radar range. It is important for the new game.

[naisha]

Make scout(M5) has, like 80km or 100km radar range. It is important for the new game.

I too was quite baffled why there are no ways to upgrade the radar range ... at least for scouts. They should have an unique upgrade/software/feature that increases radar range

[Raptor34]

Make scout(M5) has, like 80km or 100km radar range. It is important for the new game.

I too was quite baffled why there are no ways to upgrade the radar range ... at least for scouts. They should have an unique upgrade/software/feature that increases radar range

Technically you could use basic chassis mods for that.

[Wraith_Magus]

What I find more baffling is that the Discoverer (M5) is a better fighter now than the Elite (M4), with twice as many guns (two) of equal quality and equal shields. The disco even costs about 10k more than the "fighter", which is WHOLLY inadequate to the role. (The Eclipse is the only Argon S ship that even tries to be a better fighter than the "scout" Discoverer by having two shields and four guns in exchange for being vastly slower than an M-sized ship of nearly the same price.)

[dtpsprt]

The radar range is a real "bummer" for all scouts... As for the Elite... it goes in the "Jack of all trades" category the Argon are placed in general, which means it's not good at anything... but bearable enough... Most probably because it is a "starter ship"...

[Wraith_Magus]

The radar range is a real "bummer" for all scouts... As for the Elite... it goes in the "Jack of all trades" category the Argon are placed in general, which means it's not good at anything... but bearable enough... Most probably because it is a "starter ship"...

The Argon aren't really the jack-of-all trades, though. Of the three base game powers, for example, they have the best engines for travel mode. (Teladi are also a better travel mode engine than the Paranid, which have better engines in standard mode, but Teladi engines are strictly inferior to Argon ones.) This applies to all engines in apple-to-apple comparisons against engines of the same mk, Argon have the best engines for travel mode. They are in the middle with shields, with Teladi having more capacity but slower recharge and Paranid having less capacity and faster recharge with Terrans also having more capacity and slower recharge than Argon, but less than Teladi at the same mk level, but clearly pulling ahead with M and larger ships getting one higher Mk upgrade, while Split are teh sucks with shields. Argon flaks are also the best turrets for anti small-ship work, and Boro-- I mean, "Argon re-discovered" ion cannons are the best "gentle reminders to abandon your ship".

In X3, by contrast, Argon were more the heavies of the races, being slower but more durable than most.

I think it's just a default assumption that since Argons are the humans in this setting (Terrans don't really get treated as the normal humans in X, but as more the political parody other side), they're the jack-of-all-trades because that's how humans are nearly always treated, but X did do things a bit differently. Argon have as much individuality as most of the races, with more highs than lows, but they certainly aren't as extreme as the Split wind up being. If you had to play one race top-to-bottom, though, they do come off as the most well-rounded besides maybe the Paranid.

(As an aside, Paranid are diet Split in X4. I rather like their S and M ships, but the Split ships are just better, more extreme versions of everything they do, with the exception of shields, which are the absolute worst in the game.)

The Elite really is the garbage ship that exists for just being a starter ship or a throwaway ship you can let die going off to explore dangerous regions or just not care if you send off 20 of them to do "Explore" to fill any gaps in your map for 10 game hours. This ironically makes the Elite the ideal scout, just in terms of raw disposability. In some cases, economy has a quality all its own, and I find it a real weakness that most S ships are just not competitive until you spend on upgrades that make them cost as much as an M ship with lower-tier gear. In that sense, again, an Elite or maybe a Pegasus (slightly more expensive, but much faster) is the best scout in that you can buy 10 of them for the price of anything decent, and just spam them to cover a lot of space really fast. What's the difference between a 80 km radar range scout and three 40 km radar range scouts sweeping the sector in formation, in the end?

[dtpsprt]

.....................
The Elite really is the garbage ship that exists for just being a starter ship or a throwaway ship you can let die going off to explore dangerous regions or just not care if you send off 20 of them to do "Explore" to fill any gaps in your map for 10 game hours. This ironically makes the Elite the ideal scout, just in terms of raw disposability. In some cases, economy has a quality all its own, and I find it a real weakness that most S ships are just not competitive until you spend on upgrades that make them cost as much as an M ship with lower-tier gear. In that sense, again, an Elite or maybe a Pegasus (slightly more expensive, but much faster) is the best scout in that you can buy 10 of them for the price of anything decent, and just spam them to cover a lot of space really fast. What's the difference between a 80 km radar range scout and three 40 km radar range scouts sweeping the sector in formation, in the end?

The difference is that formation does not exist... To have a "bearable" formation you'll need at least 3* captain on the lead (or more) negating the "disposability" of Scouts...

[Wraith_Magus]

The difference is that formation does not exist... To have a "bearable" formation you'll need at least 3* captain on the lead (or more) negating the "disposability" of Scouts...

When I say "formation" in this case, I don't mean setting up a fleet with a formation command, I just mean "sending out a bunch of scouts individually and spacing their commands apart." I'm not even sure what you mean by bearable formations, either, because I've never seen formations matter at all when they mostly come down to globs of arrows on the map that wind up hopelessly behind the leader no matter what formation you set because they don't engage travel drives at the same time.

[Imperial Good]

while Split are teh sucks with shields

SLP S shields have the lowest recharge delay.

are the best "gentle reminders to abandon your ship".

For S and M ships you can com them to surrender as long as their shields are kept low enough. Runs the same bail rolls and if it passes they leave the ship entirely. This makes most controllable pure damage weapons good for getting ships to bail.

[dtpsprt]

The difference is that formation does not exist... To have a "bearable" formation you'll need at least 3* captain on the lead (or more) negating the "disposability" of Scouts...

When I say "formation" in this case, I don't mean setting up a fleet with a formation command, I just mean "sending out a bunch of scouts individually and spacing their commands apart." I'm not even sure what you mean by bearable formations, either, because I've never seen formations matter at all when they mostly come down to globs of arrows on the map that wind up hopelessly behind the leader no matter what formation you set because they don't engage travel drives at the same time.

Bearable... that means with enough spacing and position to add 40+20+20 = 80km in total. If they are the same type of ship and with exactly the same configuration it's doable in small distances... But, as I said, such formations are "locked" behind the 3rd and 4th stars...

[Falcrack]

They just need to have an optional sensor which can be put in a weapon slot. So your 1 gun scout ships could then have either the option of having a regular radar range (40 km) and a small amount of firepower , or a good radar range (80 km) and no gun at all.

[Raptor34]

They just need to have an optional sensor which can be put in a weapon slot. So your 1 gun scout ships could then have either the option of having a regular radar range (40 km) and a small amount of firepower , or a good radar range (80 km) and no gun at all.

Honestly I'll rather they add an aux slot for all ships, where you can slot various upgrades in.
And since its internal it doesn't even need new models.

[Falcrack]

They just need to have an optional sensor which can be put in a weapon slot. So your 1 gun scout ships could then have either the option of having a regular radar range (40 km) and a small amount of firepower , or a good radar range (80 km) and no gun at all.

Honestly I'll rather they add an aux slot for all ships, where you can slot various upgrades in.
And since its internal it doesn't even need new models.

The reason I suggested it take a weapons slot is so that it requires you to make a choice. Either have a crappy fighter that is a mediocre scout, or a great scout which is not a fighter at all.

[dtpsprt]

The reason I suggested it take a weapons slot is so that it requires you to make a choice. Either have a crappy fighter that is a mediocre scout, or a great scout which is not a fighter at all.

+1 to that...

[Raptor34]

They just need to have an optional sensor which can be put in a weapon slot. So your 1 gun scout ships could then have either the option of having a regular radar range (40 km) and a small amount of firepower , or a good radar range (80 km) and no gun at all.

Honestly I'll rather they add an aux slot for all ships, where you can slot various upgrades in.
And since its internal it doesn't even need new models.

The reason I suggested it take a weapons slot is so that it requires you to make a choice. Either have a crappy fighter that is a mediocre scout, or a great scout which is not a fighter at all.

They already have one gun. But I was thinking of stuff like shield/engine/weapon boosters. Stuff that lets you further customize your fighters without going into modifications. You can even differentiate between ships by how many aux slots they have.

[Alkeena]

The elite has very capable (certainly much better than the disco) strafing capabilities. It's also a bit smaller.

All-in they tend to be a bit more survivable than the disco, despite the shield differential.

[Raptor34]

The elite has very capable (certainly much better than the disco) strafing capabilities. It's also a bit smaller.

All-in they tend to be a bit more survivable than the disco, despite the shield differential.

The Elite feels like a player ship tbh.
Consider that its agility is crazy high compared to almost everything else. And also its the only Argon fighter that doesn't really follow their design language.
Now if only it has 2 guns, one on each wing. That's both more firepower and making it look better too.