Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

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Dreez
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Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by Dreez » Sun, 18. Apr 21, 03:18

I have a mediumsized shipcomponent factory with 2 gasminers specifically set to mine Methane, and 1 system away
there is an area which is plentifull at 0.12/km and i've told the miners to collect methane in this zone.
Yet the stationmanager keeps sending them to a competely different system which has a low amount of
methaneclouds of 0.013/km , which is significantly lower ... ending up slowing the collection by a lot.

The stationmanager is almost Rank 4 and each of the methanecollectors are R1+ .

How do i get the collectors to ONLY go to the system i tell them to and ONLY mine in the location
i want them to ?, because some locations in the same sector can have much higher values .

I tried looking on YT for a solution and googling, but i can't figure out if my settings are wrong
or the AI is just stupid.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

Swiftfire
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by Swiftfire » Sun, 18. Apr 21, 04:54

You could create a travel blacklist blocking the surrounding systems of the area you want them to mine and add that blacklist to your station.

SumUser
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by SumUser » Sun, 18. Apr 21, 05:02

Swiftfire wrote:
Sun, 18. Apr 21, 04:54
You could create a travel blacklist blocking the surrounding systems of the area you want them to mine and add that blacklist to your station.
Great idea. I was having a similar issue and that solution would fix the problemo.

Exploding Acorn
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by Exploding Acorn » Sun, 18. Apr 21, 17:46

Ever have any luck with blacklists? I'm in the same boat as I built my stations in Second Contact Flashpoint thinking that they would go to The Void or Grand Exchange. However even with blacklists set for Flashpoint set for each ship as well as the station manager they still get sent to Flashpoint to mine. I don't get how the AI sees .013 silicon in Flashpoint while The Void has like 31.0 silicon and thinks, "nah that .013 is where I should dump the whole fleet."

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Pitagora
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by Pitagora » Sun, 18. Apr 21, 18:13

Exploding Acorn wrote:
Sun, 18. Apr 21, 17:46
Ever have any luck with blacklists? I'm in the same boat as I built my stations in Second Contact Flashpoint thinking that they would go to The Void or Grand Exchange. However even with blacklists set for Flashpoint set for each ship as well as the station manager they still get sent to Flashpoint to mine. I don't get how the AI sees .013 silicon in Flashpoint while The Void has like 31.0 silicon and thinks, "nah that .013 is where I should dump the whole fleet."
Check what kind of blacklist you're updating, you can set a blacklist for travel only, for activities only or both together. If you just set the list for travel only all the miners can still go there for their "activities".
Ricarica et impera!

Dreez
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by Dreez » Sun, 18. Apr 21, 20:15

I don't understand why Egosoft made it SO hard to simply give an order to a ship
to go to point A and collect then point B to drop off /repeat.

I have a complex in Trinity III and i simply want the 2 Methane collectors to jump to the next door Hewa's Twin I,
collect methane and return when full.... that shouldn't be that hard or complicated to set up.

But apparently you need to be a rocket scientist to set up orders, and some orders aren't possible because of how it works/doesn't work.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

TheDeliveryMan
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by TheDeliveryMan » Sun, 18. Apr 21, 23:30

You can use a repeat order. Mine resource at at specific location, then sell to specific factories.

Jeraal
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by Jeraal » Mon, 19. Apr 21, 14:07

TheDeliveryMan wrote:
Sun, 18. Apr 21, 23:30
You can use a repeat order. Mine resource at at specific location, then sell to specific factories.
What I would like is to be able to assign ships to a station and then issue repeat orders, so as to clean up the property list. If that is at all possible and I'm just missing it please somebody tell me. I remember in X3 assigning tons of ships to stations just so they wouldn't be in the property list. They wouldn't even have any jobs related to the station, just owned by it.
Brute force and ignorance solves all problems, just not very efficiently.

If brute force isn't working, then you aren't using enough.

flatbush71

Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by flatbush71 » Mon, 19. Apr 21, 14:19

The Blacklists and blocking works very well.
It take a little time, practice and patience.
I hide a lot of ships in " Trade for building wares " to get them off the unassigned list.
There's enormous amount of settings to get things the way you want.

af_2017
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by af_2017 » Mon, 19. Apr 21, 14:56

I guess all these must be more transparent for players.
That is, using in game UI player must be able to understand why this ship is ordered this order.
Currently we have only manager's name, role, transaction log (btw thanks for adding this! good stuff) and that's all.
I want to make a call and ask the manager why he sends that ship that far. :)
X4 is not a destination. It's a journey. Unfortunately in a wrong direction.

paraskous
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by paraskous » Mon, 19. Apr 21, 15:38

Dreez wrote:
Sun, 18. Apr 21, 03:18
I have a mediumsized shipcomponent factory with 2 gasminers specifically set to mine Methane, and 1 system away
there is an area which is plentifull at 0.12/km and i've told the miners to collect methane in this zone.
Yet the stationmanager keeps sending them to a competely different system which has a low amount of
methaneclouds of 0.013/km , which is significantly lower ... ending up slowing the collection by a lot.

The stationmanager is almost Rank 4 and each of the methanecollectors are R1+ .

How do i get the collectors to ONLY go to the system i tell them to and ONLY mine in the location
i want them to ?, because some locations in the same sector can have much higher values .

I tried looking on YT for a solution and googling, but i can't figure out if my settings are wrong
or the AI is just stupid.
How did you tell the miners what to do if it is the manager who tells the station miners what to do?

Dreez
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue, 10. Mar 09, 12:50
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by Dreez » Mon, 19. Apr 21, 18:48

I'm getting more and more aggravated over this issue.

My small Hullplate factory has 6 large mineral miners collecting , and even when the station is full on Ice and ore,
while literally no silicon, the miners still continue to mine Ice and ore.. and not a single one will manually mine silicon.

It would be very fun to know exactly why, and how to make the station mine what is needed, instead of mining what is currently full.

/Edit: I have all miners , mineral and gas, on Auto mine.

I don't see any options of having any resource collectors working for a station and only mine a specific ware,
because the manager always controls them afaik.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

aquatica
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by aquatica » Mon, 19. Apr 21, 19:15

^
I just limited the over-excess materials manually to a lot smaller amount... In Heart of Acrimony II I have a hull plating factory.
It is constantly out of Methane, so I simply limited Hydrogen's amount to 1/10th of capacity - voila, suddenly I get Methane as well! So I set a buy order for internal (so my miners are only ones to deliver) and assigned a lot less storage for it.

Annoying, yes. Workaround, kind of. Does it work? Well, most of the time...

Swiftfire
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by Swiftfire » Mon, 19. Apr 21, 20:24

Exploding Acorn wrote:
Sun, 18. Apr 21, 17:46
Ever have any luck with blacklists? I'm in the same boat as I built my stations in Second Contact Flashpoint thinking that they would go to The Void or Grand Exchange. However even with blacklists set for Flashpoint set for each ship as well as the station manager they still get sent to Flashpoint to mine. I don't get how the AI sees .013 silicon in Flashpoint while The Void has like 31.0 silicon and thinks, "nah that .013 is where I should dump the whole fleet."
The Void is a special area, as it has these fields that damage ships if the player gets nearby, so mining there requires you to setup either a repeat order or use a blacklist for that area only with for example a trade station. Also you as the player need to remind yourself not to get close to the mining areas or your ships will die.

wanderer
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Re: Station AI stupid or my settings wrong ?.

Post by wanderer » Wed, 21. Apr 21, 13:02

Same problem here - BUT....
It works as it should be, even if its a frustration in terms of micromanaging.

Having a huge complex with roughly 100fabs for ship building materials, also 5mio storage for every storage type.
9 miners (4 XL for fe,si,ice + 3 for he,nh3, h2 - using XR Ship Mod, and 4 L for fe, si, ice) all set as subs from the station manager (5*) for mining. (We asume that the traveling and mining is done in the same sector!)

Now, I always have an problem with ice - its not mined. But after some hours of testing and thinking, its now getting clear.
When you go into the complex logistic screen, the storage will show you the amount of eg si will be used in an hour. For me its ~19.000!
That means your miners have to provide this amount of materials every hour. Now the XL ships can transport 14.000, the L ships 4.000. So in sum ist 18.000 - 1.000 short! So the station manager needs at least another ship. 3 done for si, same for fe. Here I need ~28.000/h.

As you can now see and calculate, all my ships have to work for those 2 minerals. Why? Because the production in regards to the minerals is also always very high. This, because the production line 3. and 4. steps needs those from the 1. step (eg. teladianium) to manufacture the ship parts! While ice is only needed for water and after that for some food/med. As I see it, X4 now calculates that the production of the ship parts is in more need. So, its logical that those minerals who we need from the beginning of such a production are more priorised by the miners.
Now, as suggested here you can set the production and storage limits by hand. Thats working to some account, but still remember - you need minerals every hour for the production. If you choose to set limits, you can see, that miners now also mine ice, but that mens, you'll loose other minerals. This is correct, bec. you set the complex to run from (previous stored) storage.

The only way to get out of this circle, is to calculate how many ships do i need! Also as said, 5mio minerl storage is quite large. Now to fill this up with every mineral, it takes time. Always in regards to the houlry production needs. Next, you should note, that your ships need to fly, mine and maybe in case of an attack flee! So, if you mine all over the (discovered) sectors its also taking time.

So providing materials (for complexes) is quite tricky - if you want it done with X4s station manager.

Another alternative solution (also as mention here) - use filters. E.g. Sector filter for where to fly (and this means also where to mine). And another for trade only with yourself.

I am combining filter and the storage limits for my complex. It works - but I also need to manage the limits of the production.

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